Aiming for 1000 miles per charge; EV market research for potential new OEM

5343 Views 24 Replies 9 Participants Last post by sfjamrock, Dec 23, 2015

sfjamrock

Discussion Starter · Nov 23, 2015 (Edited)

Hi guys,

I want to thank everyone that took the time to read my post today. I'm Sean and I'm working on a concept to double the range of an electric car using renewable technology. I want to get some input from some EV hobbies that have work on building/converting their own EV to get an understanding on how the community view the technology.

Below is a link to a survey I built to collect your feedback:
http://goo.gl/forms/RZZL4bnwwP

Also I would love to chat with some of you guys via skype if you are available.

My goal is to build the first 1000 miles per charge EV, and this is just my first step towards that goal, Your support would be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards

P.S. Please feel free to comment and I will answer any question to the best of my ability.

Update:
I'm not trying to sell anyone a false bag of goods, I know the limitation of these technologies. I only want to know what's a good ROI to aim for with these technology for EV practitioner to see it as a good investment. Once I know that, I will know whats worth your time and money.

Save

1 - 10 of 25 Posts

sfjamrock

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 24, 2015

@samwichse its just a goal, I'm well aware of the limitation of both energy harvesting and batteries, but if Elon Muck can say he expect a EV to get to 700 miles per charge by 2020 then me wishing for 1000 miles per charge shouldn't be that big of a stretch.

However right now my biggest focus is understand how EV DIY hobbies view renewable. Right now almost every commercial EV has rengen brakes and now prototype of cars with solar roofs are being designed by big car manufactures.

My questions have to do with less about their current capabilities and more on do people in the EV DIY space even bother to test them in there builds.

I hope that clarify my intentions a bit.

Save

sfjamrock

Discussion Starter · #5 · Nov 24, 2015

dragonsgate said:
My first thought was here we go again so I guess that falls in the category of Sam’s alarm bells. It is just that there have been a few mad scientists come on this forum claiming earth shattering inventions that are to top secret to tell us what it is they want us to buy into. If 1,000 miles per charge is just something you are dreaming about tell us that’s what it is right out or if you have any kind of invention or idea of one don’t bandy about with hints or surveys show us. Shit…. If you have a proven way to extend my range to a couple hundred miles I would be willing to pony up some cash. If you have a way to get a thousand miles to a charge for under say $10K you had better hire some body guards and I am heading over to the bank to take out a loan.

Thanks for your feedback dragonsgate, you gave me a few good insights that I can take with me, for example, you would be willing to buy something if it was proven to work and for how much. I am working on a concept that I am willing to share in this forum once I have some real world data not just assumptions. I hope to have something more vetted by summer.

I will follow up with you via PM, thanks again

Save

sfjamrock

Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 24, 2015

Moltenmetal said:
You used the magic words "energy harvesting". You'd better clarify that term so that people here know that you're not an over-unity scam artist or just ignorant of thermodynamics. We've had enough of those cranks here, wasting our collective time.

Understood, I know there are many technology that falls under this umbrella. I don't use it freely (or I try my best not to).

As I said my goal is to understand how this community feel about these technology. I did the numbers on how much energy these tools can generate so I know what is a realistic ROI for each. I know the view that practitioners have to these products. My goal is to see if practitioners would invest real money into these product and for what ROI. If I don't know whats a good ROI for you is, I won't know when I have a meaningful product.

So not trying to sell a pie in the sky concept, I assure you.

Save

sfjamrock

Discussion Starter · #10 · Dec 11, 2015

Thanks for your response but before we start down a negative path please read this article. There are plenty of ways look at this issue, my intention is to discover who has done what, what's this group view on the idea of 1000 miles per charge car and would they test it in there own build if the option was available.

I can pick apart tech too, that easy but we all know its easy to criticize new ideas but its hard to validate them. There are plenty of ways to work with batteries to extend range as is highlighted in the article, I want to do the same thing with renewable that all.

P.S. I don't have an epiphany on how to solve this problem, I just want to work on it.

dougingraham said:
I foolishly completed your survey. Elon Musk can expect a 700 mile range car by 2020 because he knows that he already has a 300 mile range car and there are a couple of battery changes that should give a doubling in capacity in that time. No magic needed.

Regen brakes are a no brainer. They pretty much get that with almost no extra effort. Solar roofs are invariably used only to top up the 12 volt lead acid battery and run a fan to exchange the hot interior air with outside air. Nothing to do directly with range.

You don't need to test anything because for all known cases it doesn't work to increase range in any usable way. For example, solar cells on my car would let me drive from 10 am to around 2 pm without any batteries in the car at a speed of perhaps 2 mph. That would be a free 8 miles of driving. This is around $0.20 of electricity. At $0.20 saved per day it will take a very long time to pay for the solar panels and the electronics necessary to use the panels power. Wind has limitations such that it is completely impractical.

Please do so. From what I can come up with you think you have some secret idea to make one of these practical. I can almost guarantee that your ideas are not new. Just read through the over unity thread. If you have something new I would be pleased to evaluate it.

Save

sfjamrock

Discussion Starter · #19 · Dec 14, 2015

Thanks for your feedback, I share your view that a 1000 mile per charge car in one sitting is too much driving even for the best of us. Thanks for share your driving habits it goes a long way into understanding why you share the view that you do.

I will share my idea on this thread later this week. Most of what is being shared on this thread falls within my expectation. So at least I know what the EV community thinks about these types of cars.

I hope you share your views once I share my idea. Thanks again for sharing.

dougingraham said:
I have read about the Phinergy battery. It is not at all clear how much a recharge will cost or what the device itself is capable of. The production of aluminum is extremely energy intensive and it could cost many times the wh/mile of the EV to turn the aluminum hydroxide back into aluminum. Unless you get almost all the watts out you put in you are better off with just charging your Lithium batteries. I would love to read details on power output and recharge efficiency but they don't seem to be revealing any of that. Based on the hybrid battery comment I will guess that the peak power is not all that great so you need something that can produce acceleration power and then recharge from the aluminum air battery during lower power times.

I drove 960 miles in one day just a few weeks ago. Took 14 hours so I averaged almost 69 mph. My preference is doing about half that as a reasonable distance and a 30 minute stop every couple of hours is not at all unreasonable. We just don't need vehicles that can go 1000 miles non stop. To do so isn't good for you. My EV does 60 miles. It could be recharged in about 30 minutes. Completely useless for road trips. Completely wonderful for driving around town. We can already build cars with enough range. And they can be recharged fully in under 30 minutes if you have a big enough connection to the grid. Without a major effort by someone other than Tesla we are limited to using a Tesla for road trips if we want a pure EV.

So what are your ideas?

It is impractical to use wind when you are moving.

If we could reach 100% efficiency with solar cells you would still need 180 sq feet to go 60 mph down the highway from 10 am to 2 pm only. Since we are only at 20% efficiency for cells that are affordable we need 900 sq feet of panels for a small sports car. That would be barely enough to do 240 miles in a day.

I wouldn't consider the aluminum air battery a renewable but lets consider it.

I bet the aluminum air battery is no better than 20% energy efficient when you convert the aluminum hydroxide back to the aluminum used in the battery. If your electricity is nearly free that might work out. But at 20% efficiency that would mean 4500 sq feet of panels to give you that same 240 miles of range when you convert the aluminum hydroxide back to aluminum.

I know a pretty smart guy who is trying to harvest some of the energy lost in the suspension. He thinks he can get a thousand watts recovered from driving over rough roads. It is a neat idea although I can't imagine it being practical unless built into a LOT of vehicles to bring the price down.

Save

sfjamrock

Discussion Starter · #20 · Dec 14, 2015

Thank for sharing, and a car that can go 700 miles would cover almost any trip anyone would want to take in the states or pretty much anywhere in the world to be honest.

Caps18 said:
I would like a rental car that has a 700 mile range at 70 mph, and can be recharged in 10-12 hours. Out West and in the Midwest part of the country, it isn't crazy to drive that in a day.

I don't care if it is a pickup truck with a bed full of batteries either. Now, I haven't done the math on how many kWh of batteries I would need for the increased weight of more batteries yet. Or the cost of those extra batteries.

This is why the solar race in Australia is important to keep pushing new technology and design.

We need Mr. Fusion.

Save

sfjamrock

Discussion Starter · #21 · Dec 14, 2015

Thanks for share, and to follow up, I think 200 miles per charge is a great baseline for a pure EV production car. Do you share the same few and if now what is a decent miles per charge for a pure EV.

Duncan said:
My tuppence worth
A 1000 miles per charge car would be about as salable and useful as an IC car with 1000 miles range
In other words not very!

Once you have enough of something (like range) more is not useful

Save

sfjamrock

Discussion Starter · #23 · Dec 22, 2015

Hey Guys,

So my plan is to do an EV build and incorporate as much renewable technology (RT) that is practical for a car to measure the ROI of each (solar, wind, therm, etc.) as well as the ROI to the vehicle as a whole. My goal is to measure:

The collective output of each RT - I am hoping to get 8KW each day out of the system, while only travelling 10KW or less each day.

Measure the cost of the RT system - Hoping to keep the cost below $6000 if possible.

I want to thank you guys for sharing with me whats a decent cost as well as miles to aim for in my first build. I am hoping to share my progress with this group and get some advise along the way.

Thanks for filling out the survey, if you haven't, here is the link:http://goo.gl/forms/RZZL4bnwwP, and thanks for your input.

See less See more

Save

sfjamrock

Discussion Starter · #25 · Dec 23, 2015

Duncan said:
The collective output of each RT - I am hoping to get 8KW each day out of the system, while only travelling 10KW or less each day.

You need to sort your units
I am hoping to get 8KW each day
I think you mean Kw-hours

while only travelling 10KW
I think you mean Km

Your right, I had it right in my notes but didn't copyright it over properly. So I hope to get 8KWH or more within a 24 hour period while traveling 20 miles or less per day.

Hope that helps to clarify.

Thanks for looking out.

Save

1 - 10 of 25 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.

Top Contributors this Month