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Hi Kit,

We have met a few times in the past, I run indra.co.uk if you recall. We should probably have another chat at some time.

Seems like you are asking way too little to me... Are you aware of the new regs coming in? For example, the requirement to meet UNECE Reg100 and have an ISO26262 safety case in place for even a single one off conversion as of November this year?

All the best,

Mike
 

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Edubindie,
I think you need to rethink your range target, I can't imagine anyone who's going camping wanting to stop every 50 miles to recharge, double this with rapid charging maybe, but 50 miles is going to be a big turn off for most, even myself and I'm already an ev convert. The VW bus should be able to squirrel away enough capacity for this in its chassis.

Mike, would you be kind enough to eloborate on the regs coming in as of November. (maybe in its own thread) I'm sure this will be of great interest (as well as dread!) for all the uk guys.
 

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Hi favguy,

You're right about the range, 50 miles is not good enough. The Kickstarter is to build another van with much higher range and quicker charging. We hope people will see the potential and get behind the idea to help us achieve it.

Kit
 

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Agree favguy.

Will you be at ElectrAA kit? Could be a good opportunity for a catch up. We have supply of aome interesting kit from early next year which will slash the costs of a conversion.

Iso 26262 is a functional safety case. Good wikipedia writeup for it.

Reg100 is about battery construction and protection. The cost of testing pretty much makes a one of EV impossible.

Tuv have some detail. http://www.tuv-sud.com/home-com/res...-means-for-rechargeable-battery-manufacturers

I can provide more detail via email - mike at indra.co.uk

Cheers.

Mike


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Hi Mike,
I'm on hols in Poland at present, I'll e-mail you for a catch up when I'm home next week and have more time.

IF this is as bad as you seem to think I may well scrap my current plans for the next EV! :(

My own current plan was most probably to use a 30kwh leaf salvage as donor, utilising the whole leaf kit similar to your other thread, so the donor car effectively thinks it's a leaf. I am still rather hoping the use of a complete leaf system will cover the requirements of the new regs you mention, or is it going to be the case of being built into another donor nullifies existing Nissan compliance?

Can't say I'm feeling too positive about the hobby in the UK going forward now, wish I'd never bothered to look in, may have spoiled my holiday!
 

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Hi Mike,
I'm on hols in Poland at present, I'll e-mail you for a catch up when I'm home next week and have more time.

IF this is as bad as you seem to think I may well scrap my current plans for the next EV! :(

My own current plan was most probably to use a 30kwh leaf salvage as donor, utilising the whole leaf kit similar to your other thread, so the donor car effectively thinks it's a leaf. I am still rather hoping the use of a complete leaf system will cover the requirements of the new regs you mention, or is it going to be the case of being built into another donor nullifies existing Nissan compliance?

Can't say I'm feeling too positive about the hobby in the UK going forward now, wish I'd never bothered to look in, may have spoiled my holiday!
Sorry! The battery pack and its protection is what is being sharpened up. If you could use the whole leaf pack without repackaging it you may be ok......

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In 99% of cases, even if re-using the Nissan BMS, the modules are going to have to be re-configured, if this is enforced I can't see any future for the DIY EV without some form of concession for one off builds or older donors before a given date etc.

Out of interest, how are you, as a commercial concern going to deal with this?
 

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In some ways its a good thing as it stops the crap from making it onto the road. The amount of problem/substandard vehicles we see is unreal.

That said it is going to kill of the hobby market. I can see some concession for using proven components but the requirements for the battery box are beyond diy.

From our business perspective. We're on the third one off vehicle this year so its not going to have a huge impact. We're.more involved with helping the oems and small batch runs now anyway.



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Hmm...

Well this really is potentially depressing, now I've had a read up however...

Just like the EMI regs. that have been plaguing European EV builds for a few years now, I suspect this won't actually be enforced for one off UK DIY builds.

When converting a car to EV in the UK, as long as no structural changes are made to the chassis, there is no contact with anyone other than the DVLA. To keep the DVLA happy, they only want to know the car can pass an MOT test (any well built DIY EV will sail through this) and have written proof from a garage/engineer that the car is solely battery powered and has no ICE component. This gets the car legally registered as an EV in the UK.

Currently this does circumvent the EMI regs. but one off builds seem to be under the radar on this, hopefully this will remain the case when the new regs. come in, after all, we aren't battery or car manufacturers even of one off models, we are just converting. We inhabit a tiny niche market in a grey area.

It may well not be as bad as it looks...
 

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Hmm...

Well this really is potentially depressing, now I've had a read up however...

Just like the EMI regs. that have been plaguing European EV builds for a few years now, I suspect this won't actually be enforced for one off UK DIY builds.

When converting a car to EV in the UK, as long as no structural changes are made to the chassis, there is no contact with anyone other than the DVLA. To keep the DVLA happy, they only want to know the car can pass an MOT test (any well built DIY EV will sail through this) and have written proof from a garage/engineer that the car is solely battery powered and has no ICE component. This gets the car legally registered as an EV in the UK.

Currently this does circumvent the EMI regs. but one off builds seem to be under the radar on this, hopefully this will remain the case when the new regs. come in, after all, we aren't battery or car manufacturers even of one off models, we are just converting. We inhabit a tiny niche market in a grey area.

It may well not be as bad as it looks...
Afraid it was the DVLA that alerted me to the changes (we're currently putting a quad in for type approval). There is also a thread on the BVS forum about it.

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Oh well, that really does sound like a bit of a s**t then. :(

Can you point me to the BVS thread please Mike as I can't find it?

When you spoke with the DVLA, did they advise all change of taxation class to EV cases would have to be tested for battery compliance going forward, or was it specific to having to have an SVA done for type approval in the quads case?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It might be a case of 'keep going until someone stops us'. We're using certified kit as new from suppliers who advertise for 'EV conversions' so that should cover it slightly. I'll chat to our engineers at Arc EV and see what they say.
 

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Your kit may be covering you for the EMI issue by the sounds of it, although there is no enforcement of this at all here. If this battery thing is enforced it's going to be really bad news for us all. Do let us know your converters take on things.
 

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In Germany the "MB FZMO 764" is still in place. The requirements are by far lower for one-off vehicles than for production vehicles. I passed it Nov 2014.

A lot if TÜV people scared me off with "new regulations" talk and never even mentioned there were special rules for one-off conversions. It was easy once I hat found someone who knew what he was talking about.

I wouldn't give up hope just yet for EV conversions in Europe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Agree favguy.

Will you be at ElectrAA kit? Could be a good opportunity for a catch up. We have supply of aome interesting kit from early next year which will slash the costs of a conversion.

Iso 26262 is a functional safety case. Good wikipedia writeup for it.

Reg100 is about battery construction and protection. The cost of testing pretty much makes a one of EV impossible.

Tuv have some detail. http://www.tuv-sud.com/home-com/res...-means-for-rechargeable-battery-manufacturers

I can provide more detail via email - mike at indra.co.uk

Cheers.

Mike


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Hi Mike,

Yes, we should be at ElectrAA this weekend. See you there.

Kit
 
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