[brian_]

57 Kw/h 65 W Motor System

Huh?
Did you mean 57 kWh (kilowatt-hours, not kW/h which would be"kilowatts per hour") of battery energy capacity, and a 65 kW (kilowatts, not just watts) motor?

 

[Kevin Cejnar]

Yes I guess so. And now you can see why I am in need
Of some help.
It’s a 50 tone Barge so I think it needs KW not Watts.
😂

 

[remy_martian]

You need to be careful with false economies.

A half-assed conversion will cost you revenue, reputation, and customers when the barge is immobilized by a failure.

For the 200k, you're paying for uptime and support. On a bespoke DIY your barge could be down for months.

It's a different equation when doing a commercial equation than one where it just sits in someone's garage when something stops working.

 

[Kevin Cejnar]

Thanks. The barge won’t be used commercially. It’s a live aboard that would be driven occasionally. But thanks for the advice it’s appreciated and noted

 

[boatman]

Have you looked at these guys - Molabo? Slightly less power, but aimed at use in boats. For clarity, I don't know enough to recommend, but they do look interesting, and they have just published a price list.

 

[brian_]

Have you looked at these guys - Molabo? Slightly less power, but aimed at use in boats. For clarity, I don't know enough to recommend, but they do look interesting, and they have just published a price list.

Unfortunately, the price list is insane: €20K for a 50 kW motor with controller, €32K for a 36 kWh battery with charger.

 

[57Chevy]

Have you looked at these guys - Molabo? Slightly less power, but aimed at use in boats.

50kW on 30kWh 48V cells is 1000A steady state, 80kW peak is 1600A. They have found the magic smoke if those efficiency numbers are real or they are telling fibs, something doesn't add up here. They appear to be four Mastervolt LiFePo4 6kWh cells which aren't cooled so those ratings are only for a few minutes and then the batteries will overheat. Their nominal power rating is the peak (20 min) rating of the batteries so the cruising time is 20 minutes at nominal power, by which time the batteries will be flat. I bet they don't tell the buyers that right off the bat. 105Nm continuous torque out of a 254mm diameter motor is a keen figure. Not impossible but they must have done some fairly in-depth analysis of their setup to achieve that steady-state. A trick some sellers use is to rename proper steady-state as "until the batteries are flat" so they may use that sneak. Looking at the age of their staff, I'd reckon there is a bit of wishful thinking in their promo.

4 x 6kWh batteries at 50kW on a displacement hull will give about 10 minutes outbound and 10 min back plus enough to maneuver up to the dock or trailer again. Then swap out 200kg of batteries or come back tomorrow when they have cooled down and charged, ready for another 20 min trip.

Seriously, if you want to get rid of the diesel smell then swap out for an engine with exhaust treatment gear, it'll do a thousand times better than anything electric.

[disclaimer: I am being paid by the Big Oil; ask me how you can earn an extra $375 before tax every time somebody posts on a forum looking for genuine information about electric propulsion]

 

[brian_]

50kW on 30kWh 48V cells is 1000A steady state, 80kW peak is 1600A.

Yes, the deliberately low voltage leads to wildly high currents. The inverter/controller is integrated with the motor, and they run three pairs of conductors in parallel into the motor housing to carry all that current.

They have found the magic smoke if those efficiency numbers are real or they are telling fibs, something doesn't add up here. They appear to be four Mastervolt LiFePo4 6kWh cells which aren't cooled so those ratings are only for a few minutes and then the batteries will overheat.

I don't know that the efficiencies are unreasonable for ideal conditions; they are certainly not superior because of the low voltage, as they claim.

They have found the magic smoke if those efficiency numbers are real or they are telling fibs, something doesn't add up here. They appear to be four Mastervolt LiFePo4 6kWh cells which aren't cooled so those ratings are only for a few minutes and then the batteries will overheat.

Four of Mastervolt 12 V 6 kWh modules/batteries (in series for 48 V) would not have enough energy capacity to match Molabo's 36 kWh spec for their smallest battery, so I don't know what they would supply for 36 kWh, but the 6 kWh units are rated:

Peak discharge current: 1800 A (10 sec.)​

Yes... ten whole seconds. In a car that's enough for an acceleration blast - I don't know how useful it would be in a boat.

105Nm continuous torque out of a 254mm diameter motor is a keen figure. Not impossible but they must have done some fairly in-depth analysis of their setup to achieve that steady-state.

For comparison, a Parker GV210-100 is rated for 88 Nm and the GVM210-150 is rated for about 138 Nm, both in the 48 V version; the "210" refers to the diameter in millimetres, and the "100" and "150" are the working rotor lengths. The Molabo V50 appears to be even shorter than the GVM210-100, but it's also larger in diameter.
Parker GVM Global Vehicle Motor catalog

[disclaimer: I am being paid by the Big Oil; ask me how you can earn an extra $375 before tax every time somebody posts on a forum looking for genuine information about electric propulsion]

🤣

 

[Syd]

Yes, the deliberately low voltage leads to wildly high currents. The inverter/controller is integrated with the motor, and they run three pairs of conductors in parallel into the motor housing to carry all that current.


I don't know that the efficiencies are unreasonable for ideal conditions; they are certainly not superior because of the low voltage, as they claim.


Four of Mastervolt 12 V 6 kWh modules/batteries (in series for 48 V) would not have enough energy capacity to match Molabo's 36 kWh spec for their smallest battery, so I don't know what they would supply for 36 kWh, but the 6 kWh units are rated:

Peak discharge current: 1800 A (10 sec.)​

Yes... ten whole seconds. In a car that's enough for an acceleration blast - I don't know how useful it would be in a boat.


For comparison, a Parker GV210-100 is rated for 88 Nm and the GVM210-150 is rated for about 138 Nm, both in the 48 V version; the "210" refers to the diameter in millimetres, and the "100" and "150" are the working rotor lengths. The Molabo V50 appears to be even shorter than the GVM210-100, but it's also larger in diameter.
Parker GVM Global Vehicle Motor catalog


🤣

We have a beautiful Dutch Barge that we would like to convert from Smelly Diesel to Electric bliss, the marine conversion for a 57 Kw/h 65 W Motor System is running into 200k, and the useage of this barge actually would be very occasional, so we are thinking that a second hand EV battery from a Tesla or equivalent, and either a specialist Marine motor or one form a car, could actually be a way of making this project fly. ( or float )

The barge can carry significant weight so we could potentially look at 100 - 200 KW h battery packs.

Of course we would need the inverter and other systems to make it all work.

So if anyone understands this world in the UK and is up for somethign a little bit different please drop me a line

thanks

Kevin
[email protected]

I see lots of negative comments in here. I don't know how big your dutch barge is and where you intend to "drive" it , but all these people are forgetting that barges (narrowboats at least) used to be pulled by a single horse.
Yes there will be moments where you need a little power, but under normal canal navigation I can't see your power requirements being that huge. I think, however that you're on the wrong forum as this one is vehicle related. I am sure I have seen some UK TV programmes where there was an electric motor in a narrowboat, but I cant recall what.

Ther emust be some conversion specialists around that could help you. Good luck!

 

[brian_]

I see lots of negative comments in here. I don't know how big your dutch barge is and where you intend to "drive" it , but all these people are forgetting that barges (narrowboats at least) used to be pulled by a single horse.
Yes there will be moments where you need a little power, but under normal canal navigation I can't see your power requirements being that huge.

My negative comments are about the suggested products from Molabo (mostly their pricing), not the canal boat project. I agree that the power requirement isn't huge, although a reasonable power (not as much as 50 kW) has to be sustained.

I think there is a worldwide tendency to assume that people who own boats have lots of money for recreational pursuits, so they are willing to pay unreasonable prices for products.

I think, however that you're on the wrong forum as this one is vehicle related. I am sure I have seen some UK TV programmes where there was an electric motor in a narrowboat, but I cant recall what.

Boats (and aircraft, and spacecraft) are vehicles. They're certainly not the focus of this forum (which is DIY Electric Car, not DIY Electric Vehicle), but there have been a few constructive discussions of boats, and even of Dutch canal boats.

 

[57Chevy]

It isn't about being negative, it is about being realistic- and sometimes those two things appear the same. Of course anything can be electrified with good results, as long as the owner is realistic about the limitations and isn't just looking for a low-cost zero emissions diesel.

The power output and energy storage capacity are only parts of the bigger picture. What is the present use case and what can be compromised? Where can it realistically travel to before there is nowhere to charge? What rules must be complied with? What is the owner prepared to compromise on? What is the loss or gain of intrinsic/resale value? What happens when it breaks down? How do you change out a faulty battery that weighs more than can be carried? Who are the end users and what training is needed so everyone can use it reliably and safely?

The point I'm making is that electric isn't zero emissions diesel, there are a lot of costs, compromises and issues to contend with. If the use-case adds up and the cost to convert is workable for the owner, then send it. First question, what is the monthly and hourly fuel burn? That would give the best indication of energy storage and motor power needs.