[Dala]

So I just got the coolest piece of tech ever for my EV workshop, which is a 40kW rapidcharger from Kempower

Might not really be something that is intended for home use, but will be oh so useful to my next LEAF CCS conversion project 😂. But this will surely be the norm in the future for businesses operating some form of electric vehicle that is crucial to their daily operations?

 

[cobratom]

Uhm. That unit requires 380-440V 3 Phase. Nobody in North America has that available in their home. So I am going with no on anyone else doing this at home.
Most North American homes have max 48kw available for their whole home.

 

[Dala]

Uhm. That unit requires 380-440V 3 Phase. Nobody in North America has that available in their home. So I am going with no on anyone else doing this at home.
Most North American homes have max 48kw available for their whole home.

In the EU, almost all homes have 3-phase power by default!

 

[cricketo]

In the EU, almost all homes have 3-phase power by default!

That's likely a gross exaggeration.

 

[cobratom]

In the EU, almost all homes have 3-phase power by default!

Yes, I am aware. Strictly speaking about North America. Also, most homes in the EU can't support a 63A load on their main breaker since its typically 60A. I am sure at additional cost it can be upgraded, but it still falls in line with.. most homes would not be able to support this sort of charger.

 

[cobratom]

That's likely a gross exaggeration.

No he is 100% correct. It's only Canada and the US that use the outdated standard of providing single/split phase power. Most other countries do not use split phase, but rather get their 230VAC from a single leg of their 3 phase circuit.

 

[cricketo]

No he is 100% correct. It's only Canada and the US that use the outdated standard of providing single/split phase power. Most other countries do not use split phase, but rather get their 230VAC from a single leg of their 3 phase circuit.

EU is not only Findland, Germany, France, etc. EU is also Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Poland, Hungary - countries that carry a legacy of the Soviet regime(s), and typically aren't as economically agile. That was the basis of my comment.

 

[cobratom]

EU is not only Findland, Germany, France, etc. EU is also Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Poland, Hungary - countries that carry a legacy of the Soviet regime, and typically aren't as economically agile. That was the basis of my comment.

I am pretty aware considering I was born in Poland. I can tell you with certainty that my grandparents apartment built by the Soviets in the 1940's most definitely has 3 phase power, and all the countries you listed also have 3 phase power including those that are not part of the EU, like Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, etc.

 

[brian_]

Most North American homes have max 48kw available for their whole home.

Most newer homes, yes. Most homes in Canada which are a few decades old have 100 amp service, and thus a maximum of 24 kW. That's lots if you're not heating electrically or running a commercial or industrial operation of some sort.

Regardless of the voltage and number of phases, it makes no sense to equip residences with several times as much power capacity as they could ever use, so charging an EV at 40 kW implies either monitoring whole-system current so that the charger can "throttle" down to avoid overload, or shutting off other load circuits while charging.

 

[cobratom]

Most newer homes, yes. Most homes in Canada which are a few decades old have 100 amp service, and thus a maximum of 24 kW. That's lots if you're not heating electrically or running a commercial or industrial operation of some sort.

Regardless of the voltage and number of phases, it makes no sense to equip residences with several times as much power capacity as they could ever use, so charging an EV at 40 kW implies either monitoring whole-system current so that the charger can "throttle" down to avoid overload, or shutting off other load circuits while charging.

Since 2018 all new homes in Ontario (Which accounts for over 38% of the population of Canada) have to have a 200A panel.
Same holds true for several other provinces.

 

[brian_]

Since 2018 all new homes in Ontario (Which accounts for over 38% of the population of Canada) have to have a 200A panel.
Same holds true for several other provinces.

Yes, but unlike cars, houses last for decades (even centuries), so standards in place for a few years don't reflect the reality of most houses.

Look forward to an even higher code minimum for electrical service to support residential charging stations, although rational management of charging times could reduce that; hopefully, people won't insist on being able to fast-charge at home between getting home from their commute and going out for the evening, while simultaneously cooking dinner and doing laundry. "Smart" metering systems are rare in most of Canada, but that's likely to change.

 

[cobratom]

hopefully, people won't insist on being able to fast-charge at home between getting home from their commute and going out for the evening, while simultaneously cooking dinner and doing laundry. "Smart" metering systems are rare in most of Canada, but that's likely to change.

You are right.
I can't imagine it being a thing. As range increases the need to fast charge decreases as you typically are not depleting your entire pack every time you go somewhere.
First generation Leaf owners are essentially doing that very thing, and are depleting their packs on almost every significant outing.

I have a S and a 3 in Ontario that share a single 48A Tesla charger that could just as easily be installed in a home with a 100A panel and still run the stove but maybe not the dryer.

 

[catphish]

I've just embarked on building a CCS vehicle module, but I have no idea yet how I'm going to test it! I'll ask around to see if anyone local has one of these

 

[Electric Land Cruiser]

You are right.
I can't imagine it being a thing. As range increases the need to fast charge decreases as you typically are not depleting your entire pack every time you go somewhere.
First generation Leaf owners are essentially doing that very thing, and are depleting their packs on almost every significant outing.

I have a S and a 3 in Ontario that share a single 48A Tesla charger that could just as easily be installed in a home with a 100A panel and still run the stove but maybe not the dryer.

Right, but as range incrases (larger batteries) it takes longer to recharge at home. 120-200 kwh Rivian and Hummer EV owners are going to be surprised when the run the battery down to 10% and plug in at home and the ETA is 24+ hours.

 

[cobratom]

Right, but as range incrases (larger batteries) it takes longer to recharge at home. 120-200 kwh Rivian and Hummer EV owners are going to be surprised when the run the battery down to 10% and plug in at home and the ETA is 24+ hours.

Have they actually announced the size of the pack on the Hummer?

I have a 100kWh pack in my model s performance. @ 48A via the Tesla wall charger it takes me just under 8 hours to charge 80% (10% min to 90% max) This is the max it can charge from a AC charger.

so 16 hours for a 200kWh pack assuming the do not include a larger built in AC charger.

 

[remy_martian]

It's not a real scenario to fully deplete your battery when you get home and where you HAVE to have a fully charged pack inside 2 or 3 hours.

You only need to charge to get to a fast charger

edit: yes, Hummer is 200kWh

 

[brian_]

Right, but as range incrases (larger batteries) it takes longer to recharge at home. 120-200 kwh Rivian and Hummer EV owners are going to be surprised when the run the battery down to 10% and plug in at home and the ETA is 24+ hours.

Big heavy vehicles increase energy consumption, but if the daily drive is still under 100 km (as it is for most people) that just means that the overnight charge goes from under 18 kW for typical cars to perhaps twice that for the big pigs... with no need to replace that charge in one hour.

Yes, if you deplete the battery one day and want to use the full range again the next day, you need to charge at a substantial rate somewhere in between. If that's an occasional thing, taking the time and paying the premium for a fast charge at a commercial station seems like a reasonable alternative to providing an industrial level of electrical service to the house.

 

[brian_]

I have a 100kWh pack in my model s performance. @ 48A via the Tesla wall charger it takes me just under 8 hours to charge 80% (10% min to 90% max) This is the max it can charge from a AC charger.

so 16 hours for a 200kWh pack assuming the do not include a larger built in AC charger.

The Tesla 19 kW onboard charger is sized to match the maximum power defined for Level 2 charging. If the car has an onboard charger that size, just using it seems more reasonable than running a high-capacity service into the house and installing another expensive charger; the 19 kW is enough.

 

[remy_martian]

There's more than one Tesla onboard charger...literally. You could get master/slave OBC's in a Tesla to double up the 45A (to the battery) "19kW" charger to 38kW...

You can do a lot more than 48A from the wall...

 

[ginetto]

In the EU, almost all homes have 3-phase power by default!

not spain, but regulation for new buildings oblige to have three phase input installation. I've one phase only, but I can move to three phase just paying the connection to the pole. e.g. three phase already arrive almost everywhere, just need a new connection.