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Discussion Starter #1
I received a bunch of AC24LS motors in different incarnations and since I haven't found out much about them I figured it might be useful to start a thread here which can become a repository of information concerning said motors.

What I have learned thus far just from what is written on the boxes and taking stuff apart is:

The AC24LS motors with part # MTA-010112-00A are wired in delta while those with part # MTA-010113-00A are wired in wye. Both of these motors appear to have a standard industrial "C-face" on the output shaft end of the motor housing as shown in the 1st pic below. I have no additional info about these motors otherwise.

The AC24LS motors with a helical gear on the output shaft are supposed to be bolted to a mating gearbox as shown in the 2nd pic below. Bare motors - ie, with the helical gear exposed - do not have a support bearing for the output shaft. The helical gear with the bearing that fits into the mating gearbox is shown in the 3rd pic while the output shaft with the helical gear and bearing pulled off is shown in the 4th pic.
 

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Looked at these before. I think Azure are VERY optomistic with their ratings and ambitions for these motors, though I really like their designs. Wonder whether some cooling could be added to run the motors a bit harder in small car like a Japanese Kei car or something really small.

I'm in the UK so size works backwards here :rolleyes:
 

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What most people don't realize is that the Solectria/Azure motors are actually rewound Baldors. The AC24LS originally is a 220vac 5.5 KW that gets rewound in MA to 70vac 22 KW. The inverters for these motors were the bottleneck.

I picked up one of the AC24LS/transmission packages from Tesseract before he left MA (thanks!) and now I'm working on inverters to play with. I have an older ACgtx20 and today I was given 6 Solectria inverters to repair from my university, so I'll test those out on my motor.

The Solectria motors used blowers on the ACgtx20, but these AC24LS are much larger. I'll try to get a picture of the two next to each other for comparison this weekend.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Looked at these before. I think Azure are VERY optomistic with their ratings and ambitions for these motors...
These motors are almost exactly the same size as the HPEVS AC-50, so, if Azure's ratings are optimistic then so are HPEVS'.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Here is an earlier thread in which the (often insufferable) user toyolla2 expounds on the crappy little AC24LS motor (plus gearbox) quite a bit:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/azure-dynamics-solectria-at1200-gearbox-shown-35225.html

I may have to rethink my pricing on these babies... :D

It seems this motor should work well with the Curtis 1238 inverter. Anyone tried that yet?

To the SGC: let me know if you need any IGBTs for those broken DMOC inverters... I'm about to start throwing the ones from the open boxes up on ebay while I haggle pricing with companies that buy these things in bulk.
 

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Here is an earlier thread in which the (often insufferable) user toyolla2 expounds on the crappy little AC24LS motor (plus gearbox) quite a bit:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/azure-dynamics-solectria-at1200-gearbox-shown-35225.html

I may have to rethink my pricing on these babies... :D

It seems this motor should work well with the Curtis 1238 inverter. Anyone tried that yet?

To the SGC: let me know if you need any IGBTs for those broken DMOC inverters... I'm about to start throwing the ones from the open boxes up on ebay while I haggle pricing with companies that buy these things in bulk.
I"ll start ripping apart those UMOCs this weekend, I might take you up on those IGBTs. I think the issue with the AC24LS is not with the motor, but the inverters. They are extremely weak and go into thermal overload very quickly.

We had a Solectria EV at school that have an ACgtx20 that is rated for 12 KW cont and 35 KW peak. We later found out that its really 42 KW peak and one of the PhD students designed an inverter to replace the old AMC320 inverters and the little Geo Metro could hit 70 MPH no problem after that.
 

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For some reason this thread reminds me of Tesseract's Socratic seminar on building an alternator controller. Good news for the AC crowd?
 

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Sorry Tess, I meant that their performance feedback suggests the motors aren't doing as well as they think they would. But as SGC says, if the controller is the weak link then the potential of the motor/transmissions is yet to be fully realised, and I look forward to SGC showing it to us!

Did you get any transmissions to go with those motors? If the motors could perform as SGC suggests with a decent controller, then a pair of them would make me a VERY happy man in place of the Siemens/Borg setups the Azure Connect vans used. I could easily improve cooling on those and up the voltage through the motor to extent the power band a bit and get the same power for less amps.

Also thinking of a crazy idea of running FOUR of these motors, one per wheel with a belt reduction drive (contained in a sealed housing with the same coolign the motor uses) to give some unnecessarily rediculous 4wd performance ha ha but that would be totally unnecessary and OTT!
 

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TheSGC
If these motors are rewound for 22kW amd the agreed view is that you can over-speed an AC motor safely 4x its ratings that presents a potential 88kW peak, provided sufficient cooling allows this to be maintained for a useable period, say 20-30s aceleration (depending what you're accelerating and how fast...) which means a dual motor setup with the reduction gearboxes would provide excellent performance!

Also, would you be sharing the controller design you intend to use with this motor? Is there any chance of an open source AC controller along the lines of the Open ReVolt DC controller? With a kit including all the needed parts and things like printed circuit boards etc? This would be AWESOME! And we can work together to optimise the software (appreciating that parameters will vary for each motor different users connect to the controller).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
For some reason this thread reminds me of Tesseract's Socratic seminar on building an alternator controller. Good news for the AC crowd?
Y'all sure love reading into the proverbial tea leaves and cloud formations, dontcha?

There's no secret purpose to my starting this thread (a la the Rosicrucians or the Knights Templar, etc.); I'm just trying to accumulate the collected wisdom/knowledge (and as little conjecture as possible, ahem...) about these motors just in case others might find them to be useful. I certainly don't have any interest in them except as items to - eventually - be sold. Some of my motivation is public-spirited in that I am hoping better-informed decisions will be made concerning these motors by those who are interested in them. After all, had I known the motors with the helical gear on them were useless without the matching AT1200 gearbox I probably would have sent them all to the scrapyard in MA, rather than pay to ship them all the way back to FL (only to then scrap them, as seems likely unless I can find the person who won the lot containing several AT1200 gearboxes).
 

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TheSGC
If these motors are rewound for 22kW amd the agreed view is that you can over-speed an AC motor safely 4x its ratings that presents a potential 88kW peak, provided sufficient cooling allows this to be maintained for a useable period, say 20-30s aceleration (depending what you're accelerating and how fast...) which means a dual motor setup with the reduction gearboxes would provide excellent performance!

Also, would you be sharing the controller design you intend to use with this motor? Is there any chance of an open source AC controller along the lines of the Open ReVolt DC controller? With a kit including all the needed parts and things like printed circuit boards etc? This would be AWESOME! And we can work together to optimise the software (appreciating that parameters will vary for each motor different users connect to the controller).
I know the AC24LS is 15 KW cont in Delay without fan cooling and I was told by an Azure employee with fan cooling it will do 22 KW. In Wye mode and 312v its 20 KW continuous without fan cooling.

The biggest performance issue is that these were never wound to run off a 144VDC. They were designed for 156v but many people only use them at 144v and at that voltage the performance is rather pathetic. I'm working on a fleet of Solectria Forces right now using ACgtx20 motors and UMOC440 controllers that the students were using at 144 volts and the drive was awful. The UMOC440 has 200+ volt ratings on them so I'm going to bump it up by a lot.
 

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Tess
Don't scrap them, I'm sure there are enough enginuitive individuals who could use them! And I'd love a couple if in deed we could find the gearboxes also.

SGC
Please keep us informed of your findings. I'm very keen to hear how a small voltage increase can offer a substantial performance improvement!
 

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Tess
Don't scrap them, I'm sure there are enough enginuitive individuals who could use them! And I'd love a couple if in deed we could find the gearboxes also.

SGC
Please keep us informed of your findings. I'm very keen to hear how a small voltage increase can offer a substantial performance improvement!

My uncle and I were playing with the motor this afternoon and we found that with a simple change from Delta to Wye the operating voltage does indeed work to 312 VDC. This gives a rated 20 KW cont and easily 60 KW peak for a few seconds. The trick is getting an inverter to handle that. I have one of the UMOCs rated to 47 KW peak, which is surprising low for the components in it.
 

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My uncle and I were playing with the motor this afternoon and we found that with a simple change from Delta to Wye the operating voltage does indeed work to 312 VDC. This gives a rated 20 KW cont and easily 60 KW peak for a few seconds. The trick is getting an inverter to handle that. I have one of the UMOCs rated to 47 KW peak, which is surprising low for the components in it.
A friend of mine got a few of the DMOC 645's in the auction, is that too much controller for one of these motors?
 

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A friend of mine got a few of the DMOC 645's in the auction, is that too much controller for one of these motors?
It probably is too much at the default settings, but you can program the current limits and other settings IF you get your hands on the DMOC software.
 

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SGC
How do you switch the motors from Delta to Wye? Is it easy? Could the connections be changed to lower the voltage in Delta to what a Curtis could handle?
Got any pics please sir?! :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
More pictures of the junction boxes and data plates:

EDIT - flipped picture of delta wired junction box around to match orientation of wye junction box picture.
 

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