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Battery Algorithms

2903 Views 9 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  Sunking
Hello all

Currently I am trying to update a Delta-Q QinQ 72v charger to charge 155ah AGMs installed in a 2007 GEM

However, like a lot of people, I am missing the Algorithm #42, as the GEM's did not come with any AGM Algorithms, lead acid / gel only.

I have the USB serial interface, and I can access the charger from the Delta-Q Software, change the default profiles, but I have no Algorithm #42 to install.

I have called Delta-Q, they sent me to Polaris, who said it was unsupported, and the Battery Manufacturer Keeps telling me to use Algorithm #42......

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks for your time.
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We threw some AGMs in one of the Gem carts that we use to get around on the base here at work. One of the guys used a programmer to switch the profiles over to AGM. I think this was the one http://www.evdrives.com/product_p/cgr-900-0089-02.html

Also, we recently received a new 2017 model GEM. This cart came with AGM batteries already and the charger appeared to be the same. Not sure which route would be cheaper but I've seen newer GEM models on Craigslist for pretty cheap... Just lacking good batteries. Which would mean the Chargers may be good still?


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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the response.

Already have the programmer, just no profile.

Played around with a new Delta-Q QuiQ that was purchased for a Yamaha Golf cart, haven't installed it yet, and it has the #42 profile in it already, just not for 72v, the golf cart is 48v.

And I haven't seen a way to copy a profile from the QuiQ anyway, and they are encrypted, per the Manufacturer.

I thought you couldn't patent an algorithm, but you can encrypt them......
 

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OK I have not used Delta Q chargers or programmed one, so I am not sure what I will advise will even work or not. If the software allows you to write your own algorithm, you would way better off than using a manufacture algorithm specific to your AGM battery manufacture and model. One size fits all is not optimum.

Example I work with a lot of Concorde PVX AGM batteries and Concorde is the best AGM manufactured. They pretty much invented them for the military aircraft operations and have expanded into consumer applications. Their algorithm is unique to say other premium manufactures like Odyssey or Optima.

Really not complicated as most follow the same basic algorithm, difference is charge rates, voltages, termination, and if EQ is allowed or not.

So for Concorde goes like this:

2-Stage CC/CV charging is recommended with the voltage set to 2.37 to 2.40 vpc at as high of a charge rate as possible up to 5C until charge current tapers to 0.05% of C. This first stage is commonly referred to a Bulk/Absord.

Stage 2 begins immediately as soon as the charge current tapers to 0.05% C by reducing the voltage to a Float Voltage of 2.20 to 2.28 vpc volts and held there until the battery is used.

Pretty simple.

It goes further to say if the Charger has Temperature Compensation which should really be used with any AGM, they give a formula to calculate Bulk/Absorb and Float cell voltages temp referenced to 2.51 vpc for Bulk/Absorb, and 2.34 vpc for Float.

So my advice to you is program your charger to the battery manufactures specific instructions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for confirming my thoughts about the battery profiles.
I agree with you on the assessment, writing your own profile is best.
I worked out a curve based on the Manufacturers data for the batteries we have installed on a spreadsheet.

The Delta-Q software has (2) modes:
User mode
Technician mode

The technician mode requires a key from Delta-Q.
I bet it is a encryption key that signs the custom enc file to upload to the QuiQ charger, there by limiting who can write algorithms.

And I still need to know the data format / schema of the enc file.
The closed nature of this Delta-Q ecosystem is kinda of frustrating.

Still, you race what you brought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Just another observation

I saw a Delta-Q chart somewhere that should a bunch of battery charging curves.

One thing I noticed is that they were all based on the cell.

Make sense to me, you can then develop one algorithm for battery cell type 'x', and then scale up based on the voltage output needed, 36v, 48v, 72v.

If my understanding of battery tech is correct:
6v Battery = 3 cells
8v Battery = 4 cells
12v Battery = 6 cells

Therefore a series array of (6) 12v battery = 36 cells.
 

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Just another observation

I saw a Delta-Q chart somewhere that should a bunch of battery charging curves.

One thing I noticed is that they were all based on the cell.

Make sense to me, you can then develop one algorithm for battery cell type 'x', and then scale up based on the voltage output needed, 36v, 48v, 72v.

If my understanding of battery tech is correct:
6v Battery = 3 cells
8v Battery = 4 cells
12v Battery = 6 cells

Therefore a series array of (6) 12v battery = 36 cells.
All battery data should be based on a cell, not a jar. Pb nominal is 2 vpc and if you wanted a 72 volt battery would require 36S.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you for the info, as you can tell, learning battery tech on the fly.

I'm a property manager, and I am starting to get a lot of battery powered devices, the property is 'going green'.

AGM's, Gel's, Lead-Acid, LiOn, the whole gamut.

I wanted to standardize on one type of charger....

Questioning the decision to standardize on the QuiQ.
The proprietary nature is kind of a put off.
 

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Questioning the decision to standardize on the QuiQ.
The proprietary nature is kind of a put off.
That is the world we live in today, everything is proprietary. Apple is the worse offender with inferior product. Want a charger to charge an Apple gizmo, you have to buy one made just for Apple. Otherwise any usb will work on any other product line you can buy for 1/3 the price.

I work in the Telecom and Power Generation sectors. Just about every piece of equipment and test equipment is proprietary except for 2 things. DC Power Plants and Batteries. Any DC plant will work with any battery. Just set the voltage and your done. Real easy as the range is 52.8 to 55.2. All it takes is either a screw driver or a couple of clicks on a keypad.
 
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