[tortuga]

Greetings all I am looking at creating a reliable replacement pack for a light weight Zap that was modified (by zap) to have a 120VDC Motor:
Model:FB1-4001A
Continuous rating: 19.0 kW (158A @ 120V) (25.2 hp)
Peak output: 63.8 kW (531A @ 120V) (85.0 hp)
I am not really sure what the actual peak amps the truck pulled when driving up hill or under full load.
I am looking at options for 38 3.2V lithium cells packs.
Does anyone on here have experiences ordering batteries from China?
I have been looking at these $272/kWH Foradepower:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ergy-Storage-Battery/1191644_32881904233.html
and these
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hig...-100A-f-lifepo4-battery-pack/32427642435.html

I am located in Oregon USA there is nothing even remotely close to me that sells these.
I would prefer to work with something new as time is limited.
Thanks in advance!

 

[boekel]

is there a specific reason you're looking for LFP?

 

[tortuga]

is there a specific reason you're looking for LFP?

Not really. Whats your recommendation?

 

[boekel]

any used OEM pack, tesla modules are most expensive ($200-300 per kWh) and others usually arount $100-150 per kWh

 

[tortuga]

any used OEM pack, tesla modules are most expensive ($200-300 per kWh) and others usually arount $100-150 per kWh

Thank you for your reply, I am not getting the same math results. A used pack OEM pack cost more than these new cells. If I could get one for a reasonable price like 1/2 of new I would consider it..
I was hoping someone on here had experience buying new batteries.
For example
Looks like I can get a range of Nissan Leif cells from 2011-2016 7.6V 56AH cells for around $150 on ebay. However none of the vendors have 36 cells in stock.
Plus it seems those cells are huge and low on the AH.
The cost @ 150 a cell would be much more per kWH at 365/kWH.
Even if I got enough of these gen 1 leaf batteries
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nissan-Leaf-Battery-Module-7-6V-35-40Ah-Used-/123046582768
I would still be paying $335/kWH
Tesla 24V packs dont reconfigure into 120VDC easily but they do seem to cost around $250/kWH (USD).

I dont see why people pay more for used batteries than new ones cost while not really knowing what your getting?

 

[john61ct]

$5-600 per 100AH @12V is low market rate for new quality LFP prismatics.

Well maybe new, maybe good, from unkown overseas vendors.

Compare to a local trusted vendor, which of couse should be higher
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=3

 

[tortuga]

$5-600 per 100AH @12V is low market rate for new quality LFP prismatics.

Well maybe new, maybe good, from unkown overseas vendors.

Compare to a local trusted vendor, which of couse should be higher
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=3

Thats interesting thank you.
They have a 180AH 3.2V cell for $243 USD
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=264
So my estimate is with 38 of those you can get about 22kW for $421/kWH.

 

[boekel]

ebay prices aren't the best comparing prices.

tesla modules are actually quite nice for 120v, if you charge them to 4,1 volt per cell, you get 123v charged from 5 modules.

capacity of the '5,3kWh' modules is more like 5kWh if you charge till 4,2 volt, you loose 10-15% charging to 4,1V (something to calculate with), but you get a longer life at 4,1V (goes for all batteries, LFP numbers I don't know)

 

[tortuga]

ebay prices aren't the best comparing prices.

tesla modules are actually quite nice for 120v, if you charge them to 4,1 volt per cell, you get 123v charged from 5 modules.

capacity of the '5,3kWh' modules is more like 5kWh if you charge till 4,2 volt, you loose 10-15% charging to 4,1V (something to calculate with), but you get a longer life at 4,1V (goes for all batteries, LFP numbers I don't know)

That 4.1 V idea is interesting thank you. I have looked into that Tesla cells. They are $233/kWH. Do you recommend a source other than ebay?
Like I said there is nothing here locally.
Thank you

 

[Boxster-warp]

Hello
I read that was 4,0v perfect for tesla batteries and long life?????
Greetings Boxster-Warp

 

[tortuga]

Well I dont know about that. The Panasonic specs on the cells say to charge them to 4.2. The specs also indicate 500 Cycles so again I am still wondering if anyone on here has any experiences with these NEW batteries coming from asia, that cost much LESS than all this used stuff?
Cheers

 

[kennybobby]

To what brand of cheap Chinese cells are you referring?

ultrafires? with fake 18650 cells

 

[tortuga]

To what brand of cheap Chinese cells are you referring?

ultrafires? with fake 18650 cells

"FORADEPOWER" Is an interesting one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8PC...0-Times-Max-Current-600A-For/32877013659.html

 

[ishiwgao]

To what brand of cheap Chinese cells are you referring?

ultrafires? with fake 18650 cells

This gave me a good laugh. very amusing, never seen this before.

guess we always need to be careful when purchasing cells from overseas vendors

 

[Duncan]

I like Volt Batteries
You can get a 16 kWh complete unit with all sorts of extra goodies for about $2000

They are a TON better than any of the "new" cells

 

[kennybobby]

"FORADEPOWER" Is an interesting one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8PC...0-Times-Max-Current-600A-For/32877013659.html

i would recommend to not charge up to 3.65, many folks here have lost cells in packs due to charging just to 3.6. The resting voltage of a fully charged cell, 100% is 3.33, so even 3.4 would fully charge a cell and be less risky for loss.

 

[tortuga]

I like Volt Batteries
You can get a 16 kWh complete unit with all sorts of extra goodies for about $2000

They are a TON better than any of the "new" cells

This sounds like the direction everyone is pointing me in.
It looks someone sells 54AH 60Volt ones on ebay. So I would get 4 of these and get a 108AH 120V pack I guess.
What kind of a BMS do you use for them?

 

[Duncan]

Hi
E-Bay is not where I would look

Read this thread
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/2012-chevy-volt-battery-93101.html

I got my pack from
http://www.car-part.com/

Buying a complete pack gets you all the other goodies including a BMS - I'm not using a BMS - but the pack comes complete with one if you can understand the way it works
Some of the smart people on this forum are using those BMS's

Re KennyBobby's comment
Different Chemistries have different voltages - you MUST charge to the voltage for your batteries

Kenny is right about 3.6v being too high for some cells but the Volt ones are 4.1v

 

[tortuga]

Thank you, will do.
I have been checking out the https://www.orionbms.com
It seems like it can utilize the old 120V charger

 

[dain254]

A complete Chevy Volt battery is your best bet - I'm located in the US as well and paid $1160 for my last one about a year ago. They are cheap and salvage yards are always willing to deal on them since they have no idea what else to do with them. The easiest for this application would be to run 30S2P - using the balance ports to parallel between the cells giving you 10kwh total for the 120V pack. For charging, there is a guy on here that can reprogram the Elcon charger that your ZAP probably has to the correct voltage. BMS you will want to find as well, several good setups and info on this forum for that. Good luck!