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Hi
I would suggest
Mount the plates on the motor
Mount the flywheel on the motor

Use a mag base and dial gauge to check the positions of the dowel holes in the gearbox adapter - tap your three bits until the dowels are in the right pace relative to the motor spin axis
I would then drill some extra dowel holes to ensure the three plates will always line up - or you can weld them
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Your aligning technique sounds very much like the one used in this build, post 15: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/foru...7137p2.html?highlight=motor+alignment+problem

Unfortunately, by post 66 they had destroyed a transmission and replaced their adapter plate with a commercial one with well located alignment dowels from CanEV. It's doubtful if this technique is sufficient to provide proper alignment of the electric motor shaft and the transmission input shaft on a consistent basis. The typical maximum shaft axes misalignment limit as listed for most ICE set-ups is 0.005"(~0.13mm). To give some perspective, the thickness of ordinary paper is ~0.004"(0.10mm).

It seems that it would be very difficult to achieve this degree of alignment with your technique. I know Damian seems to have gotten away with it in his car. Judging by this and some of his electronic antics, he must be living a charmed life.

No it is not the same method. I forgot to mention , the pin of gearbox axel will bee in the hole of motor axel. I will make slipring (from bronce (Cu )) that will come between an that will also be bearing. That is 100% alligment. the plates will be welded
 

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No it is not the same method. I forgot to mention , the pin of gearbox axel will bee in the hole of motor axel. I will make slipring (from bronce (Cu )) that will come between an that will also be bearing. That is 100% alligment. the plates will be welded
I believe that this is saying that the end of the gearbox shaft will run in a (bronze) pilot bushing in the end of the motor shaft. That's good, although with a clutch this should be a needle bearing, not just a bushing. What will lubricate the bushing?

The pilot bushing will support the transmission input shaft (which is good), but it will not create "100% alignment", because there is radial play in the unsupported transmission input shaft. If the mounting plate holds the motor and transmission out of alignment, the pilot bushing will hold the transmission input shaft out of alignment.
 

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No it is not the same method. I forgot to mention , the pin of gearbox axel will bee in the hole of motor axel. I will make slipring (from bronce (Cu )) that will come between an that will also be bearing. That is 100% alligment. the plates will be welded
By slipring I think you mean a pilot bushing. This alignment technique could possibly work if the transmission input shaft (gearbox axle?) is rigidly supported inside the transmission and the weight of the motor/adapter plate is carefully supported as it is bolted onto the transmission. This support is needed to prevent excess pre-loading of the input shaft bearing(s) inside the transmission. And, the weight might throw off the alignment.

If the input shaft is not rigidly supported inside the transmission and loose like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVFgjupf1n4 , then this alignment technique will not work. The oil clearance in the pilot bushing(or play in a ball or needle type pilot bearing) would allow too much angular displacement of the input shaft even if the weight of the motor/adapter plate is carefully supported as it is bolted on, throwing off the alignment. Check your transmission input shaft to see if it is loose.

I'm still trying to figure out Duncan's alignment technique.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Yes I mean pilot bushing. The gearbox shaft is fix , it doesn't go like this on the video. I understand on what problem you want to point. I will put motor verticaly. Gearbox will be on the motor. Gearbox is much lighter than motor so it wont be any side weight. I will spin motor and try to move gearbox (front bach left right), I will try to get no side resistance, then bolt it strong and weld.
I hope you get the point. With this method is made a lot of EV-s here in Croatia, and t is working after 100 000 km... on some cars.

This pilot bushing I will lubricate with dence carbon machine lubricant (dontknow proper meaning). This will only spin when I press clutch, so it wont be high RPM-s. I think it will be ok .

I also can't figure Duncan's aligment technique .
 

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Re Alignment technique

The motor (or engine) has a rigid bearing system - it will not move

So you use that as your reference by mounting the dial gauge onto the motor shaft - if you have a flywheel just use a mag base

The input shaft to the gearbox cannot be used as a reference as it will be "floppy" - it has to be as the two shafts will never be perfectly aligned
 

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The gearbox shaft is fix , it doesn't go like this on the video. I understand on what problem you want to point. I will put motor verticaly. Gearbox will be on the motor. Gearbox is much lighter than motor so it wont be any side weight. I will spin motor and try to move gearbox (front bach left right), I will try to get no side resistance, then bolt it strong and weld.
Good, then the alignment is established by this tweaking to hopefully eliminate side force, then maintained by the adapter plate. This is only workable with a transmission input shaft which is rigidly supported in the transmission, and alignment isn't an automatic result of having a pilot bearing.

I'm a little puzzled by the idea that this input shaft is supported rigidly. It appears that it should be a ZF S5-31 (called a "S5D" by BMW), and from what I can see of online illustrations the input shaft (top shaft on this page, or bottom shaft in this photo) is short, with only a single gear (to transfer drive to the countershaft) and 5th gear synchro on it. That's not like the input shaft of an all-indirect transaxle, which has bearings on each end.
 

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Good, then the alignment is established by this tweaking to hopefully eliminate side force, then maintained by the adapter plate. This is only workable with a transmission input shaft which is rigidly supported in the transmission, and alignment isn't an automatic result of having a pilot bearing.

I'm a little puzzled by the idea that this input shaft is supported rigidly. It appears that it should be a ZF S5-31 (called a "S5D" by BMW), and from what I can see of online illustrations the input shaft (top shaft on this page, or bottom shaft in this photo) is short, with only a single gear (to transfer drive to the countershaft) and 5th gear synchro on it. That's not like the input shaft of an all-indirect transaxle, which has bearings on each end.

Matija, Brian is being very diplomatic with his concerns about this alignment issue. This issue has raised all kinds of heated arguments on this Forum, right along with the BMS debate. The debate is divided between those of us who believe the original equipment manufacturers(OEM) specifications for the alignment of the engine(ICE) or electric motor(motor) to the transmission should be followed and those who think the alignment is not that critical. Much of the problem comes from the difficulty of setting-up and measuring the alignment when the ICE is replaced by the motor. Very sophisticated and expensive measuring tools are required and used by the OEMs to set up the ICE with the transmission. For most DIYers, these tools are just not available when they attach the motor to the transmission. The alignment method you described with the motor and transmission vertical and rotating the shaft is probably the best that can be done without the sophisticated and expensive tools or a good dose of patience and creativity (that last bits for Duncan). Is it good enough? You say it has worked for your fellow EVers. Unfortunately, I have seen some serious problems come up when this type of alignment technique was used.

The bottom line for me, working on conversions for other people, is that I have to be able to be to set-up the alignment to the OEM specifications. The problems that might come up if I do otherwise, would be unacceptable.

Getting back to Brian's concerns. If your transmission is like the one in the drawings, the input shaft is not well supported inside the transmission and most likely will have some movement. You should check it again. Also, you described the input shaft moving front back left right as it was being aligned. A rigidly supported shaft would drop directly into the pilot bearing and probably not move around like that at all.

I wish you the best of luck with this alignment issue in your build. Please understand, some of us come at this issue from a different perspective.
 

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I agree with electro wrks that you need to get the same sort of accuracy as the OEM's

I disagree about the idea that it requires very expensive equipment - you need some basic measuring gear and a bit of time and patience
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Tnx a lot guys, when adapter for flywhell will be done , I will do my best to allign it propertly, it is very important
 

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Discussion Starter #31
The adapter for flywheel is done , also adapter on the front side for aircondition belt. The job is perfect done, adapter is heated and pressed on the axis of motor shaft. It is 100% alligned. Perfect. Now I need to allign motor to gearbox.









 

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How much run-out do you have on the face of the flywheel? This is something best tested with a dial indicator (also known as a dial gauge or a clock)

Did you use set(aka grub) screws to hold the flywheel adapter to the motor shaft?
 

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Did you use set(aka grub) screws to hold the flywheel adapter to the motor shaft?
Screws are 10.9
That's the grade of the fastener. electro wrks is asking if there are set screws (also called grub screws if headless or "blind") perpendicular to the shaft, tightened down on the shaft to keep the adapter from moving. It looks like there is one on the side nearest the camera, lined up with the keyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Did you use set(aka grub) screws to hold the flywheel adapter to the motor shaft?
No, It fits tight , it is heatet before puting together.
This one screw is made on the other side of motor for aircondition, because I can move adapter for alligment.

Today I finaly alligned motor to gearbox. I alligned clutch in center of the motor shaft with allignment tool, but I still had vibrations. Then I bolted with 3 screws and I pressed clutch with some leverage metal , and then it was no vibration. I allinged again , spined the motor and put all screws and nuts. It spins perfectly

:):):)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19A17NOBg5k
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Tnx :)

I bought Summer wheels style 66, to me the most beautiful 17" for e39
They were painted, with no scratches.

 

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Tnx


I bought Summer wheels style 66, to me the most beautiful 17" for e39
They were painted, with no scratches.

A fantastic set of wheels Matija!
I have two questions for you -
1) What gear do you start the car in and what gear do you drive it in?
2) Where have you put the 9 Tesla battery packs in the vehicle?

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #40
A fantastic set of wheels Matija!
I have two questions for you -
1) What gear do you start the car in and what gear do you drive it in?
2) Where have you put the 9 Tesla battery packs in the vehicle?

Thanks!
Hello ,
Tnx,
I didn't drive it on electric, It's not finished yet. I will see that, Don't know. Maybe 3-4-5- grear ...
Im planning to put 5 modules front and 4 modules back in bumper. I need to make case.
 
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