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Discussion Starter #1
I've got 12kw of these batteries. They have a liquid cooling/heating port on top. There is no other port. I do not understand how this works. The fiat 500e that they came out of has a pump.
They are also rated to 350A max. what would a good continuous rate be. I was planning on using 2/0 wire between the 6s packs or is that overkill.
The web searches have turned up very little info on these. I'm sure someone will post a teardown with much info on youtube soon. These seam to be a small size with a very low resistance. Please, any help would be awesome, thanks.
For some reason the photo is always upside down. no matter if I flip and save to a new file in photoshop.
 

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Howdy Crater,

don't know why the photos do that--i'm guessing that you are posting pictures from an iphone, it seems they cause them to flip.

i'm fairly sure that the tube on the Fiat cells is a vent line. i bought one and took it apart--the plenum with the hose directly covers the vents. Plus there is no return line--how would fluid get back to the pump inlet?

cheers,
kenny
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for your reply.
I also was thinking it was a vent tube. Clearly Fiat has some type of thermal battery control and after your post I started looking at how.
The bottom of the battery looks like it may have some residue of thermal paste that I have used between a computers cpu and heat sink. In the fiat sre the batteries bolted to some type of aluminium heat sink? Would that be enough surface area to help them not overheat?
 

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Clearly Fiat has some type of thermal battery control and after your post I started looking at how.
The bottom of the battery looks like it may have some residue of thermal paste that I have used between a computers cpu and heat sink. In the fiat sre the batteries bolted to some type of aluminium heat sink? Would that be enough surface area to help them not overheat?
I don't know about the Fiat specifically, but some EV packs do bolt the cell modules to a "cold plate" base, which has coolant circulating through it. That's sufficient for most purposes, although some (Chevrolet Volt and Tesla) have coolant passages packaged between cells of each module, for greater and more even heat transfer.
 

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here's a cell showing the ventilation feature. They are not easy to remove, lots of welded stainless steel make up the housing, then the cells are welded to the buss bars--had to use a hacksaw to cut this one off the end. Really thick aluminum used for the cell case.
 

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That is far more disassembly than I am willing to go. That photo is very appreciated.
Did you come across any thermistor during your teardown?
 

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I recently picked up a lot of these batteries as well (12) and they do seem like quite the oddball. I thought "liquid cooling" at first, too, when I saw the hose on top but quickly came to the conclusion that it's a vent. Good to finally know what they came from though, in case the source dries up and I need a replacement. Also very cool to see one of the cells gutted from the unit, I was really curious what was inside! They strike me as very robust.
 

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I have a complete battery from a 500e and yes there are cooling plates touching each cell. I have not seen any thermal paste as I disassembled them.

These cells are made by Samsung but I can not find any details about charge and discharge rates or any other details of the makeup of the cell. If anyone out there has a reference sheet or more information it would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Cool paper, I want those new batteries. I'll bet they are FARRR more expensive than the $150 24v 1.1kwh I spent.
Good info on the thermisor too. Have you also metered the pin outs on the balance cables? Do you know if anybody sells the male connector or have a connector that they prefer to replace it.
I should have time tonight to hit it with my volt meter if no one has.
 

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Cool paper, I want those new batteries. I'll bet they are FARRR more expensive than the $150 24v 1.1kwh I spent.
Good info on the thermisor too. Have you also metered the pin outs on the balance cables? Do you know if anybody sells the male connector or have a connector that they prefer to replace it.
I should have time tonight to hit it with my volt meter if no one has.
Give it some time, they'll come down in price and we'll pick some used ones up for cheap! They do sound like the next best thing, and it looks like BMW is trying to get in to the power storage game by teaming up with Samsung and using these units or a variation. Hopefully between that and some wrecked i3 cars, us DiYers will benefit from them soon as well.
I couldn't find any male plugs, I have no idea what they are. Possibly a proprietary Fiat/Botch piece? At any rate, I ended up just getting some 7-pin jst-hx connectors to wire in. This way I can use common bms units. I traced the wires to each cell and omitted the extras (a ground and positive, plus thermistor leads), the orange caps pop off and you can then see where each wire goes.
 

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I haven't found a datasheet yet (the info seems overshadowed by the newer 94ah Samsung cell) but I did a quick search and I may have found the thermistor that is used. It looks exactly the same to me, and when I measured resistance across the leads I got 10.25k ohms which then dropped rapidly when pressing a finger against it. Here's the link, maybe it'll be helpful to someone: https://www.ttiinc.com/content/ttiinc/en/apps/part-detail.html?mfrShortname=&partsNumber=USP10976
I am not sure but I believe the same battery is used in this unit : http://simpliphipower.com/product/phi-1-3-battery/


Check the dimensions and specs it sure seems the same.
https://www.solar-electric.com/simpliphi-phi-1-3-24-60-lithium-ferro-phosphate-battery.html
 

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I haven't found a datasheet yet (the info seems overshadowed by the newer 94ah Samsung cell) but I did a quick search and I may have found the thermistor that is used. It looks exactly the same to me, and when I measured resistance across the leads I got 10.25k ohms which then dropped rapidly when pressing a finger against it. Here's the link, maybe it'll be helpful to someone: https://www.ttiinc.com/content/ttiinc/en/apps/part-detail.html?mfrShortname=&partsNumber=USP10976
I am not sure but I believe the same battery is used in this unit : http://simpliphipower.com/product/phi-1-3-battery/


Check the dimensions and specs it sure seems the same.
It is pretty close, but I don't think it's the same for a few reasons: the height is 6.25" vs closer to 7" and the Ah rating is 52 instead of the 60 (I've also seen these Samsung cells spec'd at 63), not to mention the max draw at 60a whereas the OP, Crater3184, said the max current draw is 350a. The biggest giveaway though is that unit is LiFePo whereas ours are NMC. Let's keep searching though!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Elliot, I just place my order with amazon for those cables. I will pop the cover off and check it out. I am pretty sure those connectors are proprietary.
These batteries are for a converted miata with a warp9. I hope the other batteries are available when I do my lotus europa. I want to do more than just commute in it.
 

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Elliot, I just place my order with amazon for those cables. I will pop the cover off and check it out. I am pretty sure those connectors are proprietary.
These batteries are for a converted miata with a warp9. I hope the other batteries are available when I do my lotus europa. I want to do more than just commute in it.
The jst-xh cables? Or 2/0g cables?
A miata with a warp9 and 12kWh should be a fun commuter. 👍 Are you using the factory Mazda transmission?
I'd love to see a Europa S with a big Siemens motor and 30kWh+! Apparently Dodge was going to do something similar, from what I read on Wikipedia.
 

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I ordered the 2/0 a couple days ago. It and the compression terminals from ev west. I ordered the hydraulic crimper from ebay- cheaper and I only need it for a couple dozen times. I'll tell you how it went.
Commutes should be fun, right? The Lotus is a series 2 1969 europa.
It is incredibly light. With more of these batteries I was wanting to get 150 to 200 mile range so I can run the canyons of mulholland to Pacific coast highway like I do now in my other 18 yr old miata but faster and with more style.
 

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Cool, I ordered the wrong size and need to exchange for some 2/0 gauge. I went cheap and got the hammer style TEMco crimper, it was like ten bucks and has good reviews. The JST cables I found on eBay, a couple packs of 10 female with pigtail which also come with the male connectors since my bms units don't have headers. (I actually went with simple balance boards without protection, since I should have way more amps available than used)

Way rad, I was hoping it was the model 2 but made an assumption since I never see those! I wonder if there are any classic Ev conversion meets? My build is going on a '64 Ford f100 pickup. I'll have to start a build thread... I'm going hybrid with an ICE powering a fwd platform and an induction motor powering the rear with about 17kWh, and solar panels covering the bed. Maybe I'll start that thread today, just been putting it off while I gather more parts and supplies.
 

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sometimes u can get a wire harness on ebay etc for like 25-50
$usd


I have some of these batteries too
just need time to install and figuar out how to monitor the cells or do a bms for them
pin outs be great
thx
 
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