[andrea.calandri]

Hi all,

I found an SMG 180/120 from the rear end of a 508 Hybrid )its the same motor of fiat 500e), only motor and gearbox, no battery and no controller.

I would start to find a good inverter/controller to match with or even try to build my own, the problem is that I can't find any documents and/or datasheet of that motor.

It would be nice, at least, to have the pinout of the sensor plug.

There is anyone here that has some experience with that motor?

Thank you,

Andrea

 

[piotrsad]

Hi i have this motor also,
i open it and :
Motor have 12 pairs of magnets and 36 slots for wires,
Motor type PMSM - up 100KW -400V
the output is with resolver 6 wires (sin cos power).

I looking for some DIY inverter which can poewr up the motor, do you have any idea ?

 

[oskar_bogacz]

Any new info on that front ?

 

[MiBa]

Hi,
I have this motor on my workbench too.

Compared with other high-efficient motors with a high power/weight ratio like the ones from Emrax, UQM, Yasa, Brusa, phi-power, etc., one will get a big “bang for the buck”

You will find this 29,2kg motor also in Porsche’s 918 Spyder (front axle).


I’m planning to use it in a Lotus Elise electric (street legal conversion, light weight, high power)

Reg. your question I will share my investigations (I’m just starting with the project):

This Bosch SMG180/120 PMS Motor has:
12 Poles and 6 Pole-pairs.

The Resolver is from Tyco Electronics, a customized precision variant - only made for Bosch.
Multi Coil Resolver
Type: MCR605
Speed: 6-speed (so 6 pole-pairs)
Excitation_Voltage: 7Vrms
Excitation_Frequency: 10kHz
>> so it’s most likely compatible with the AD2S1210 Resolver_Encoder Chip from Analog Devices.

If you’re interested in the (proprietary) datasheet for that MCR (36 pages, and with a lot of info reg. multi coil resolvers as well) pls. send me a PM.

Some basic datasheets could be found here:
http://www.te.com/deu-de/product-CAT-ATS0024.html


The MCR605 pin-layout (6-pin variant):

1 / green / reference
2 / brown / sine-
3 / blue / sine+
4 / white / cosine-
5 / red / cosine+
6 / yellow / supply

Best regards
Michael

 

[MiBa]

Hi,
I have this motor on my workbench too

Compared with other high-efficient motors with a high power/weight ratio like the ones from Emrax, UQM, Yasa, Brusa, Remy, phi-power, etc., one will get a big “bang for the buck”.

You will find this 29,2kg motor also in Porsche’s 918 Spyder (front axle).


I’m planning to use it in a Lotus Elise electric (street legal conversion, light weight, high power)

Reg. your question I will share my investigations (I’m just starting with the project):

This Bosch SMG180/120 PMS Motor has:
12 Poles and 6 Pole-pairs.

The Resolver is from Tyco Electronics, a customized precision variant - only made for Bosch.
Multi Coil Resolver
Type: MCR605
Speed: 6-speed (so 6 pole-pairs)
Excitation_Voltage: 7Vrms
Excitation_Frequency: 10kHz
>> so it’s most likely compatible with the AD2S1210 Resolver_Encoder Chip from Analog Devices.

If you’re interested in the (proprietary) datasheet for that MCR (36 pages, and with a lot of info reg. multi coil resolvers as well) pls. send me a PM.

The MCR605 pin-layout (6-pin variant):

1 / green / reference
2 / brown / sine-
3 / blue / sine+
4 / white / cosine-
5 / red / cosine+
6 / yellow / supply

Best regards
Michael

 

[MiBa]

Hi,
I have this motor on my workbench too.

This Bosch SMG180/120 PMS Motor has:
12 Poles and 6 Pole-pairs.

The Resolver is from Tyco Electronics
Multi Coil Resolver
Type: MCR605
Speed: 6-speed (so 6 pole-pairs)
Excitation_Voltage: 7Vrms
Excitation_Frequency: 10kHz
>> so it’s most likely compatible with the AD2S1210 Resolver_Encoder Chip AD Devices.

The MCR605 pin-layout (6-pin variant):

1 / green / reference
2 / brown / sine-
3 / blue / sine+
4 / white / cosine-
5 / red / cosine+
6 / yellow / supply

Best regards
Michael

 

[veyron]

Hi , just bumping up the post .. Any info on this bosch motor would be valued in ...Volts :]

 

[Rubberburner]

You can buy the Inverter at Bosch, its called INVCON 2.3:
https://www.bosch-engineering.de/me...duktdatenblaetter/BEG_OHW_eDrive_DE_final.pdf
Sorry I just found a german folder.

 

[veyron]

Thanks! that is something already

 

[andrea.calandri]

You can buy the Inverter at Bosch, its called INVCON 2.3:
https://www.bosch-engineering.de/me...duktdatenblaetter/BEG_OHW_eDrive_DE_final.pdf
Sorry I just found a german folder.

I think that for an hobbist is almost impossibile to buy a InvCon inverter from Bosch and a complete software suite to tune it...

 

[jhuebner]

You can try diy and find the relevant parameters with trial & error.

Http://openinverter.org/shop
https://github.com/jsphuebner

 

[Rubberburner]

ask Stephan Dirnberger @ Bosch
[email protected]
He can tell you where you get the parts and software.

 

[dilgt]

It is impossible to run this motor by universal controller? Or convert this motor to run low voltage - 48V and controller by Kelly kac controller?

 

[BigBike]

Morning.
I also have found this Motor to play around with.

About the inverter: A synchronous motor can be driven with any 3-phase-current - more or less.
If you want any semblence of Nm for your Voltage and no slipping/stuttering, you have to adapt the phases from the motor or the signal from the sensor to the current you send in,
which depends on the position of the sensor towards the coils and so is individual to every series of motors.

So you need an frequency-adapting inverter.
I read that there are ways to make the motor even more efficient.
Not using even 3-phases but to "excenter" the current. (no even 3-phases)
But thats way over my educational level ^^

Does anyone knows what Voltage the motor takes?
400V is written evrywhere, but: 400V in total so 200plus and 200minus or
400plus and 400minus? Makesa huge difference in creating the 3-phased-sine.
Since I still have to assemble some batteries, I havent tested and built any inverter.

Cheers

 

[tahleel]

The Fiat 500E has the same motor as the Porsche 918 Spyder's front axle. However, the Fiat's is rated at 80 kW, whereas the Porsche's is rated at 210 kW. Would it be possible to upgrade the Fiat's controller to bump this up to 210 kW?

Thanks!

 

[brian_]

I had not looked at this motor in any detail before, but it seems to have been well covered in the press, due to Bosch promotional work and its use in the Fiat 500e and Smart ForTwo ED, but especially the Porsche 918. Anyone interested in an inverter for this motor might want to look for what inverters have been used with Smart ForTwo ED motors as well.

Bosch: Separate motor-generator (SMG)

The Fiat 500E has the same motor as the Porsche 918 Spyder's front axle. However, the Fiat's is rated at 80 kW, whereas the Porsche's is rated at 210 kW. Would it be possible to upgrade the Fiat's controller to bump this up to 210 kW?

When a motor has two substantially different ratings in two different applications, the reason is usually that one of them (the Fiat 500e in this case) is a rating for continuous or at least high-duty-cycle use, and the the other (the Porsche 918 in this case), is for only very intermittent use. The 500e drives on this motor all of the time; the 918 only uses it under hard acceleration (the motor is at the front and the car's engine drives the rear wheels).

The higher rating probably results from a higher current limit (the a similar maximum voltage), which requires more cooling of the motor or just very short periods of use (to give it a chance to cool back down). To deliver that current, the inverter needs higher current output... and it's unlikely that Fiat paid for a massive inverter to just turn off much of its capability in configuration.

The SMG 180 series (180 mm diameter motors) has a maximum speed of 12,800 RPM. At whatever current Bosch considers suitable in an EV application the SMG 180 (presumably in the 120 mm length) is rated by them for 200 Nm of torque output.
A typical article triggered by a Bosch press release: Bosch SMG 180/120 electric motor for compact EVs and hybrids

 

[BigBike]

I think thats not possible.
First, the Spyder has two of these motors, at each front wheel one, so double the 80kW.
Second, the number of kWs is not fixed and the motor is built for 40kW continuous power and only for short times, 80kW are possible.
Maybe, it also can go for 105kW (210kW for 2 motors) for even shorter periods
or
you mixed it up with horsepower. 80kW equals around 108 horsepower, that would fit the numbers given by you, if you round it down a bit. (160kW with 2 motors or 216hp. With friction, uneven loads at for example curves and electrical limitations 210hp)

It wasnt the answer, you wanted to hear, sorry!

 

[brian_]

First, the Spyder has two of these motors, at each front wheel one, so double the 80kW.

Good catch!

Second, the number of kWs is not fixed and the motor is built for 40kW continuous power and only for short times, 80kW are possible.

Bosch quotes 40 kW at 250 V (for typical hybrid applications) and 80 kW at 400 V (for typical EV applications).

Maybe, it also can go for 105kW (210kW for 2 motors) for even shorter periods
or
you mixed it up with horsepower. 80kW equals around 108 horsepower, that would fit the numbers given by you, if you round it down a bit. (160kW with 2 motors or 216hp. With friction, uneven loads at for example curves and electrical limitations 210hp)

The press coverage all quotes 210 kW (total of two motors) for the front axle of the 918; this is just a duty cycle issue.

So, 105 kW for intermittent use (temporary performance mode, limited to a few seconds?) seems reasonable, with 80 kW for typical EV duty cycle. Of course the inverter needs to be able to handle the required current at the required voltage.

The 918 has only a single 115 kW generator on the engine, so any total front axle power beyond that is drawing down the battery, which is only a little 6.8 kWh pack - small for a plug-in hybrid. High front drive power is clearly not intended to be sustained.

 

[BigBike]

Wow!! - That even helps me! :-D So Thanks!
The 400V are really nescessary at the motor then.
Because I need a dutycycle of max 90% for the PWM of my inverter, I rather need 450V so that 90% of it reach the 400V at the motor. Thanks 🙃

 

[brian_]

The 400V are really nescessary at the motor then.
Because I need a dutycycle of max 90% for the PWM of my inverter, I rather need 450V so that 90% of it reach the 400V at the motor.

I suspect that when Bosch specified 400 volts they meant a pack with a peak charged voltage of 400 V, since that's normal in the industry (for 360 volt nominal, 96S lithium-ion battery). The full battery voltage would only be needed in the upper part of the motor speed range.