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Considering 2002 S-10 club cab going hybrid

7K views 71 replies 7 participants last post by  hankweirauch 
#1 ·
Hello Everyone this is Hank W in the Colorado high country. My wife and son gave me a really cool looking 2002 S-10 Ls Club Cab for my retirement. I am planning on wrapping it this summer in High Gloss Black. Would also like to discuss what it would take to do a hybrid conversion. I have limited funding so I feel hybrid might be able to swing over cost of full electric. What do all of you out there ,suggest?,
Let's talk ,
Hank
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#2 ·
A really slick conversion would be to put the entire Two-Mode hybrid system from the 2008-2013 GMT900 trucks... but the transmissions would be hard to find and everything would be very expensive. A much newer equivalent would be the similar power-split hybrid transmission from the Cadillac CT6 PHEV; those must be rare.

A hybrid has a smaller battery than a battery-electric vehicle (much smaller if it isn't a plug-in hybrid), but the hybrid system is so complex that overall project cost might not be any lower.

You might try adapting a mild hybrid system.
 
#5 ·
The question I put out there only concerns the how to or type of electrical system. I am not discussing the wrap that is going to happen anyway.. That has been bought and paid for since christmas. Please take your ideas or opinio s to another website.. I don't do political opinions.. Have a good day..
Hank
Hank
 
#6 ·
It'll look real purdy with that wrap,up on blocks in the front yard after you get completely lost in that hybrid conversion fantasy fuelled by Brian's "all ya gotta do is...". Great idea - now go figure out the execution.

Different revision GM ECUs and modules hate talking to each other, so the entire electrical system needs to come out of the donor truck, including the entire wiring harness, instrument panel, engine sensors and all wheel drive unit. To add to the barrel of monkeys of fun, your engine will never start because it has a different reluctor wheel and CPS/camshaft drive, than an '08 and up and the TCU is also completely different. Then there's the DoD your truck does not have. And while you're at it, the oxygen sensors are also totally different, so yours need to go.

So now you're swapping engine and trans as well as harness, control modules, and instrument panels...oh, and finding somewhere to cram the hybrid system's battery because the S-10 compartment is chock full of V8 engine.

You're on your way to the purdiest yard art anyone got for Christmas in Colorado.

Go for it, Henry...people are always welcome to show me I'm wrong. Impress me with your wizardry...cuz all you apparently needed to know was how to wire it up.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Yes, but you're apparently a "left wing libtard" like I am, cuz pushing for the sensible, performance-choice (like your Moab-proven kickass conversion), and economically and budget supported full electric conversion is somehow "political".

I'd note that a real right winger would be dropping a 7.4 Powerstroke into an S-10, though, so swapping in, or "wiring up", a hybrid in Colorado High Country is pretty much a closet-Democrat move. I mean, yeah...."political" 🤦‍♂️ If you don't believe science or engineering, label it "political" or ask what Jesus would drive to pay back those Persian dudes that gave Him oil for His birth day (yes, it's not one word)

Likely won't get invited to go hunting for Elk with the lifted-F250 boyz anymore, cuz ya can't shoot a critter that is standing in an open field while you're laughing your butt off at your buddy's vinyl-covered hybrid "truck".
 
#9 ·
Please give me a ball park figure for going FULL ELECTRIC, I have had one company
This just in: From FLASH DRIVE MOTORS rated " Best overall" on these type of conversions.
Hank,

This would be a pretty difficult conversion, but we would be up to discuss it. What adds complexity is the weight and lack of aerodynamics. Also, if this is an automatic transmission, that will also complicate the conversion process. My initial impression is this would be a Tesla swap that would replace the rear end with batteries in the front. This would give you the most range with the weight of the vehicle.

I would ballpark something like this around $75K.

James

This is the first pricing to convert my vehicle to electric 2002 Chevy S-10 LS 4X4 Crew Cab
 
#11 ·

I am currently researching another conversion company:
EchoDrive PLEASE GROUP LOOK AT THIS AND LET ME KNOW IF THIS IS FEASIBLE. HANK

The company’s new EchoDrive bolt-on hybrid-electric system, which can reduce annual fuel costs by as much as 50-percent in some cases, consists of a Remy electric motor and a light-weight battery storage system.

In the near future EchoDrive will also be offered direct for installation on 2015 GM 2500/3500 gas-powered 2WD pickups. Installation is performed by an Echo-certified installer. Customers may choose to use a certified partner in Echo’s nationwide installation network or get training and certification for their in-house tech(s).

EchoDrive is being offered as a $12,500 upgrade. But that initial sticker shock is far less intimidating if you consider Echo Automotive has a lease program that is less than $200/month.


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#25 ·
I am currently researching another conversion company: EchoDrive PLEASE GROUP LOOK AT THIS AND LET ME KNOW IF THIS IS FEASIBLE. HANK
The company’s new EchoDrive bolt-on hybrid-electric system, which can reduce annual fuel costs by as much as 50-percent in some cases, consists of a Remy electric motor and a light-weight battery storage system.

In the near future EchoDrive will also be offered direct for installation on 2015 GM 2500/3500 gas-powered 2WD pickups. Installation is performed by an Echo-certified installer. Customers may choose to use a certified partner in Echo’s nationwide installation network or get training and certification for their in-house tech(s).

EchoDrive is being offered as a $12,500 upgrade. But that initial sticker shock is far less intimidating if you consider Echo Automotive has a lease program that is less than $200/month.


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That's a classic hybrid conversion approach. Azure Dynamics did that with their Balance system; the Balance descriptions were much more open about the complexity of doing this well, due to the changes to the engine controls to effectively control both engine and electric systems in a coordinated way. Like all EV conversion companies, Azure Dynamics eventually went bankrupt, too.

One hint that the EchoDrive material was out of date was the reference to a "Remy" motor, as that company became part of BorgWarner in 2015 and the Remy name is no longer used for the motors.

The actual cost would never have been that low.
 
#13 ·
Wait - you're having someone do the conversion for you or are you doing it?

@Electric Land Cruiser already gave you the cost of his conversion, all-in, him doing the work.

Yes, the auto transmission goes. The $75k was reasonable for someone else doing it.

The Ecodrive will work, but it'll take a 25MPG truck to maybe 28-30MPG. It's way overspec for an S-10.

That $5k Remy motor is capable of full electric, and needs a "Torquebox" at about $3k to hook to the driveshaft. Your engine and trans get punted and a battery pack goes in. So $8k for brand new full electric propulsion plus inverter, battery and accessories cost.

Then you need a battery pack. @Electric Land Cruiser was all in at about $10k using motor gearbox batteries and charger from the Leaf and kept his 4WD. Read his entire build thread as it is pretty much what you'd be doing.
 
#15 ·
I'd also note that Ecodrive system is 2WD only and your truck looks 4x4, unless it's merely a lift.

It cannot run electric-only around town behind an auto trans, nor will the trans live very long if you pop it in neutral going down long hills (my daughter was doing this to save gas I found out a few years after she smoked the trans).

You also have zero regen braking with a full battery and you'll need to be able to store about 2-3 kWh going down a 5 or 6 mile long grade, so the hybrid battery needs to be about half SoC (usable 20-80%) at the top of the grade, which it will be in the climb if it's full at the bottom. You may not have enough battery there if the grades are longer and I seriously doubt their (nonexistent?) battery cooling is sized for operation on long grades. You also need to ask how it works in cold weather.

I didn't do the detailed math - these are ballparking.
 
#16 ·
Good to know, great feedback, I do drive a 10 mile hill with a 2000 feet elevation change going from where I used to work to where I live,so it looks like I would need a huge battery system to make it work. I saw someone put all his batterys under the bed of his s10 and made a tilt bed. Looks kind of cool and worked for him
Hank
 
#17 ·
I run a 6% grade, at times 8%, for 5 miles in a 3400 pound factory EV (Bolt) into town so know those numbers too well. Almost exactly half your run with half the elevation drop. Your weight should be in that ballpark, I'm guessing.

Not a huge battery...you'll need about 40-60kW to climb fully electric and about the same to be able to regen and slow down for curves going down hill.

You can do the math on the clock time and assume 20-80% SoC battery use for min pack size.
 
#19 ·
I run a 6% grade, at times 8%, for 5 miles in a 3400 pound factory EV (Bolt) into town so know those numbers too well. Almost exactly half your run with half the elevation drop. Your weight should be in that ballpark, I'm guessing.

Not a huge battery...you'll need about 40-60kW to climb fully electric and about the same to be able to regen and slow down for curves going down hill.

You can do the math on the clock time and assume 20-80% SoC battery use for min pack size.
Cost depends totally on your skill and what parts you use mate
Thanks for your input, Have a good day.
Hank
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#20 ·
A link to Echo Automotive would help. When I searched for EchoDrive I get guitar electronic, When I searched for Echo Automotive I find Echo Automotive Fails: Bolt-On Plug-In Hybrid Kits Used Bright Technology the article is dated September 5, 2014. Did the company start up again? or is this a completely different company?
later floyd
YES, this is the same company I referenced I missed the date when I found it. O Well maybe it was to good to be true anyhow. Thanks for trying. Hank
 
#21 ·
I hope some company bought the tech and is developing it again. Looks like there would be a market for it.
Another option might be using a Lexus GS450H transmission and inverter like @gregski is doing although the transmission looks huge compared to a S10 transmission from what I remember of the last S10 tranny I looked at close to 40 years ago.
later floyd
 
#22 ·
I hope some company bought the tech and is developing it again. Looks like there would be a market for it.
Another option might be using a Lexus GS450H transmission and inverter like @gregski is doing although the transmission looks huge compared to a S10 transmission from what I remember of the last S10 tranny I looked at close to 40 years ago.
later floyd
Well with all the new technology now a days, I was hoping something would pop up less expensive and easy to install. One S-10 video on you tube I saw, the gentleman put all his batteries under the bed with a tilt bed. I really liked that plan. Thank you for your input.
Hank
 
#27 ·
One of the technical challenges of the AZD Balance and EchoDrive approach is related to the motor speed. In these designs a motor is used with a shaft that extends out both ends; the front end is connected to the transmission output and the rear end is connected to the axle. The motor acts like a section of the drive shaft, adding power to the shaft (as a motor) or taking power from the shaft (as a generator)... but that means that the motor turns at the speed of the shaft, which is very low compared to the usual speeds of electric motors driving vehicles. That means a relatively large motor must be used.

The parallel hybrid systems in production vehicles (such as the F-150 PowerBoost and Tundra Hybrid that I mentioned earlier) put the motor-generator between the engine and the transmission, so it can turn at a more consistent speed, and at low road speed it can turn much faster than the transmission output, allowing it to be smaller yet still effective. Unfortunately, that's a much more difficult place to mount the motor as a custom modification.
 
#30 ·
It seems he already has all the data:

 
#31 ·
CALLING MR. REMY_MARTIAN,
What are you wanting from me? I am searching for answers to Full Electric or Hybrid Conversions for my S-10. I am totally confused at this time which way to go, everyone I have talked to have a different answer as to which way to go. I have seen no consistany or any standards in anyone's build .
Thank you,
Hank
 
#36 · (Edited)
There's a forum thread on "Truckla" already:


She was the project manager, hatched the idea, and funded it. Posed for photo ops, mostly, from what I can tell. A bunch of actual Youtube-personality builders flew into town and did it.

Kid had brain cancer, so I'm cutting her slack with what I'm posting about her abilities on that build.

Despite what she did for Tesla PR, Musk is still being a windbag on Tesla's pickup truck.
 
#38 ·
Despite what she did for Tesla PR, Musk is still being a windbag on Tesla's pickup truck.
She asked Musk if she could bring Truckla to the unveilling of the Tesla truck, and he said yes. She meant as like, a part of the show, but he just meant, yeah, you could show up same as anyone in the crowd could.

The event ended up being the unveilling of the Cybertruck, and with everyone scratching their heads, a lot of people just went outside and talked to her about Truckla :p
 
#39 ·
Thanks for letting me know about that detail, I am sure that day was ALL ABOUT MUSK, and not much praise about what she did with the creation of Truckla, however we and a lot of people agree that was no small project for her and her friends to undergo. It reminds me of what Mark Smyth does in Rhode Island, with SMYTH PROFORMANCE with the six sedan models that he sells kits to make utes or small pickups. I ESPECIALLY like his vw beetle and audi a4/s4 conversions. Have a great day, Work Safe, BE SAFE .
From Colorado High Country
Thank you,
HANK
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#40 ·
Good Afternoon all you do it yourselfers:
A couple of months ago I emailed Mark Smith of Smyth Performance and asked him uf he currently had any plans to cut up any current electric vehicles to make "Utes" ie small pickup not at this time but it might be coming later. He is waiting with what the Government is going to require in the future. Mark is the founder of factory five which has been making kit cars for years. His brother bought him out so he could start, SMYTH PREFORMANCE. He slowly adds
new kits every so often. He started out with vw Jetta/Golf, Subaru Impresa wrx, Audi a4/s4, Dodge Charger, more recently added the VW Beetle and Jeep Cherokee kits. All vehicle maintain the same frame and dimensions so everything that runs the car/truck remains the same, perfect for insurance and licensing. Everything to finish the new bed is complete in kit.
Please see examples below.
Thank you,.
Hank

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#41 ·
Alpha wolf , Pickup truck anybody ever heard of it. Small California Companies idea of a small pickup truck. Not fully developed yet but here is a very interesting video to watch. I am a S-10 owner looks very promising for some one like me. What do all of you out there in DIY Electric LAND Think???? Please reply anybody else think this is neat or not???
Hank

 
#42 ·
Alpha wolf , Pickup truck anybody ever heard of it. Small California Companies idea of a small pickup truck. Not fully developed yet but here is a very interesting video to watch. I am a S-10 owner looks very promising for some one like me. What do all of you out there in DIY Electric LAND Think???? Please reply anybody else think this is neat or not???
A few years ago, it made some sense for startup companies to attempt to build an electric pickup, because that vehicle category was not available. Now that the major auto manufacturers are building them, there's no point - Rivian will be the only startup to successfully produce an EV as a pickup.

The existing and coming pickup EVs - Rivian R1T, Ford F-150 Lightning, Chevrolet Silverado EV - are all full-size trucks, because that's what most customers want. There may be a market for a smaller truck, and it will be a while before the mainstream manufacturers get around to providing them, but I don't see a large enough niche for a company such as Alpha to have a chance. They're too late into the game.

Although it will likely never be more than an idea, I like the size and style of the Wolf. It reminds me of the first pickup that I drove (and first vehicle I towed with, and first manual transmission that I drove), which was a Mitsubishi-built Dodge D-50. On the other hand, the proposed price is too high

These are the relevant links that I collected when this truck appeared online last year:
Motor Trend: Could the Alpha Wolf Bring Small Electric Trucks Back to the Future? SoCal EV startup to offer electric ute-like pickup that's nice and small, like they used to be.
 
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