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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Nine (9) Second Fiero now

Well, I thought I would start a thread on my build as it is rather unique car. (and someday someone else may try to do the same crazy thing)
I documented the entire thing with pictures, that are all over in various locations, I will try to link them all in here if anyone has a specific request for a particular shot. This is the best video link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LR-BZcIuC0&feature=share&list=PLA3E4F9ED20798E34
I was originally going to build a Diablo kit and bought an Oklahoma car that had sat dead in Austin for a long time (17 years?) 88,000 miles Red 2M4 for $1000 on ebay. I finished thrashing the leaky 4 cylinder for about 30 minutes until the heads blew all the way through and the bulk of the radiator fluid got in the oil system. Right after that I spent 8 months in Alberta and watched them racing electric snowmobiles and became convinced that the off the line torque of an electric motor was tremendous. I then saw some electric car drag racing in Vancouver/Portland area and I was hooked. Very easily you can have sub 4 second 0-60 mph times and like my car we do 0-60 in 2.4 seconds with the drag radials.
I decided to build to the National Electric Drag Racing Association classification called MC which is Pro-Modified Street Conversion.
I also occasionally race in SCCA slalom racing courses but they haven't found a category for me yet.
From the beginning we targeted putting the batteries in the trunk do to the nice "water tight" nature of the compartment.
Our target was to beat the White Zombie at 10.25 seconds.
Here is one of the more recent shots someone took at the Texas Mile in Beeville TX.


you can see a video of the build here...
http://www.youtube.com/user...98E34/10/Hh_9irEYFJ8

Some of the main modifications:
Replacement of the engine cradle with a Lincoln Mark VIII rear end and suspension.

Removal of the gas tank and substitution of a slightly wider (1" each side) torque tunnel into which we inserted two Netgain Warp9 motors, each capable of sucking 400 battery HP. Fiero was amazing this way in that the large what looks like a transmission tunnel down the middle is the gas tank area (A lot of people are surprised to learn that) worked out perfectly for the motors. Everything is to the rear of the original front "firewall" so we can maintain "mid-engine" status.

Nearly direct coupled, (really a short coupled DANA Spicer 1350 driveshaft) the motors to the differential. Installation of a 1200HP Gear Vendors overdrive so we have two gears (really 1.5).
Installed a five point roll cage.

Firestone Air bag rear suspension
12" Corvette brakes in front by West Coast Fieros thanks Chris West
Two motor controllers, good to supply 425 battery HP to each motor by Cafe Electric
Controller cooling system
LiPo battery pack by Lithium Start 2400A 375V (peak ratings) 6P90S
LiPo Battery Management System by Elithion
KYB shocks all around
Sport Edition CD 16X7.5 wheels 5X100 on the front, 5X108 on the rear
BFG Drag Radials 255/50R16
Eagle GT's 225/60R16 for running around town and the slalom courses

Catchin some rear wheel air...on the slalom course in the Macy's mall parking lot in Hagerstown MD




Catchin some front wheel air at Houston Motorsports Park in Houston




More front wheel air at Royal Purple Raceway in Baytown Texas.




One of my favorite shots index racing in the 7.0 1/8th mile Brandt Nationals at Lonestar Motorsports Park in Sealy TX



Best times so far...
60ft 1.551
1/8 mile 6.321 112mph
1/4 mile 9.898 134mph
1/2 Mile 134.5mph
1.0 mile 155.0mph
 

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Looks good John!

Can't wait to see ya on the track, coming this way in 2012? :confused:
You know all NEDRA members are welcome at ECEDRS events. It would be nice to get us all together in 2012. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
View of my battery pack. Its 155lbs 333V nominal LiPo made from off the shelf parts. Standard off the shelf LiPo packs, Elithion BMS and BRUSA charger talking via CANBUS. 6P90S Polyquest/Enerland by A123 Korea.
4400mAhr cells 45C/90C 30 second burst rating. Factory matched.



What I see for gauges., Twin Zillaview session on my netbook. Also, logs data to text file for each trip.




PVI Diagram for DC Plasma for the single Zilla arrangement. Each line represents one of the system components operating windows. You can match components by comparing the windows.



Simulated Dyno charts for inputs to motor. These are calculated from zilla outputs not rear wheel figures. Motor efficiency and driveline losses would need to be added for rear wheel figures. But this is real data for starting off purposes. It has worked well in my drag modeling software that steps by 0.01seconds through a run.



Comparison of one zilla across two motors in series versus two zillas one to each motor.




My little pack put out 830battery horsepower peak on this run from June.

 

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Discussion Starter #4
I needed the 1.21 Gigawatts of a lightning bolt to create the 800 battery HP to get down the 1/4 mile in 11.5 seconds. Taken from my truck window during intense thunderstorm over South Bend IN on my way to Power of DC 2011.

 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I was wondering why I had no power left when my pack was still 10 to 20V above nominal. I had previously thought nominal might be somwhere near the middle SOC. But it turns out that 3.7V LiPo chemistry 3.7 is nearly empty.
I created this chart for recharging at the track. I never charge above 4.15V or discharge below resting voltage of 340V



This is a summary of some settings DC Plasma racing has tried over the 2011 Racing Season. You can see the early trials at 1200A and 1500A. Then some runs at 1800 and 2000A with the total motor voltage limits when the motors were in series with one zilla. Then we switched to two zillas(x2) and kept the motors at 170V the entire run. Then we tried Overdrive(OD) and then finally 1800A, 190V and OD(battery hitting LBV gave the ratty line). Next trial will be 2000A and 190V and Overdrive.

 

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Hey John,

Nice job on the documentation. I'm almost thinking that this should be in the build thread section of the forum. . . certainly no one can argue with the performance connection.

So, I guess you finally found a sponsor then. . based on the team name etc.?

Cheers,
Gary
 

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Why is there such a drop in Torque (and thus the HP) after ~3000rpm

Was the amperage pulled back for some reason?

Is it due to the continuous rating of the Zilla? I would have thought the amperage would slowly taper down to the 600 continuous, not just drastically drop like that...if that is indeed the cause...

I was hoping to see the Warp9 peak horsepower to be in the 4000rpm range...we need more peoples dyno's!!! I hope you have started a trend!



 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
So, I guess you finally found a sponsor then. . based on the team name etc.?
I wish. Are you talking about "DC Plasma"?
The car name is because I have spent my life working around high power DC Plasma arc furnaces. Not a very common way to melt things. The furnaces pull up to 60,000 amps at 660V. Temperatures up to 4000F.


We are still open to ANY sponsorship.


Metric
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Why is there such a drop in Torque (and thus the HP) after ~3000rpm
Was the amperage pulled back for some reason?
No this was 2000 amp zilla limit accounting for the flat line, unlimited battery pack power allows a single zilla2K-EHV to provide up to 170V to my Warp9's with the Helwig Brush system from Netgain. The taper is just normal fall off for Warp9 at 170V.
Most other dyno sheets you have seen are battery pack limited and can't push that 2000amps out to full 170V applied to motor. The drop off is what I get from a stock Netgain motor.

I will have a new chart with a little more data using the Helwig brushes. I am putting up to 199V on each warp9 now.


Is it due to the continuous rating of the Zilla? I would have thought the amperage would slowly taper down to the 600 continuous, not just drastically drop like that...if that is indeed the cause...

I was hoping to see the Warp9 peak horsepower to be in the 4000rpm range...we need more peoples dyno's!!! I hope you have started a trend!
I only experienced a zilla limit when I had the two motors in series with only a single zilla. It's around 1800amps and 340V. This chart is for two parallel Warp9's with unlimited battery pack and one zilla to each motor.

The taper is due to the motor emf building up. The pack is not the limit on this dyno chart See the PVI diagram. The zilla 2K sets the top line. Without that amp limit the torque would go up to infinity along the that same line.
Note the Impulse9's from White Zombie data peak at around the same rpm.

Metric
 

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I wish. Are you talking about "DC Plasma"?
The car name is because I have spent my life working around high power DC Plasma arc furnaces. Not a very common way to melt things. The furnaces pull up to 60,000 amps at 660V. Temperatures up to 4000F.


We are still open to ANY sponsorship.


Metric
Hey John,

No, I was talking about "Lonestar EV Racing" I think u mentioned on one of your emails to me. I was assuming/hoping u got a sponsor. I just figured DC Plasma was part of that now. ??

Cheers,
Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #14
No, I was talking about "Lonestar EV Racing" I think u mentioned on one of your emails to me. I was assuming/hoping u got a sponsor. I just figured DC Plasma was part of that now. ??
Oh, no that is a private team as well. Being in Texas we decided to name it Lonestar EV Racing. You can friend us on facebook.

Still looking for sponsorship for that as well. We are building a Pro-Street Mustang as the next build.


John Metric
DC Plasma Racing on Youtube (please subscribe)
Lonestar EV Racing on Facebook (please subscribe)
EVAlbum
DIYElectricCar
Pennocks Fiero Forum
979-665-5621
 

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Some of the main modifications:
Replacement of the engine cradle with a Lincoln Mark VIII rear end and suspension.
Awesome project. Are those the stock cradle mounts on the fire wall? Did you use parts from the stock cradle and the Ford setup to mount it all?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Awesome project. Are those the stock cradle mounts on the fire wall? Did you use parts from the stock cradle and the Ford setup to mount it all?
I removed the stock Fiero engine cradle and transaxle. It was only rated for about 300Hp motor I figured. I was installing nearly 1500ftlbs of torque.

The Lincoln MarkVIII was also an Independent rear suspension with nearly the same wheel track as the Fiero. And I was very happy to learn it had nearly the same clearance in the frame area.
I ended up cutting off the stock ears on all four corners. I welded up the rear spots to re-inforce them but they were geometrically right in the perfect spot.
The front ears were rotated 90 degrees and extended they fit right in the same spot as the stock engine cradle mounts.
Here is the Ford rear end compared to the original Fiero rear engine cradle.

I have a load of photographs documenting this if you want to see more.

add firestone airbags too.
 

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Sure, post em up, I like to see different Fiero mods. I like the idea of the motors in the tank tunnel, originally I was going to put some of my pack in there but I was able to get all my cells in the motor compartment. Your setup would give a lot of battery room above the differential if you mounted the controllers vertically on the firewall, or maybe on the sides under the old vent panels. Not that you need more battery, or the use of the trunk.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Sure, post em up, I like to see different Fiero mods. I like the idea of the motors in the tank tunnel, originally I was going to put some of my pack in there but I was able to get all my cells in the motor compartment. Your setup would give a lot of battery room above the differential if you mounted the controllers vertically on the firewall, or maybe on the sides under the old vent panels. Not that you need more battery, or the use of the trunk.
Oh, yeah, motors in the "transmission/tank tunnel" free up a huge amount of room. I have absolutely nothing in the front. and yes, the controllers are the only thing in the back.
Here is a picture of the six main welds prior to painting.




I swapped the shock position and the sway bar. But they both fit into the Fiero. This is the right wheel.


 

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Discussion Starter #19
Some shots of the torque tunnel. This was the old gas tank area. We widened it by one inch on each side. We needed to move the seats out by one inch. The seat stills fits and functions. You hardly notice it.










This is what fills the tunnel. 199V twin Warp9 with Gear Vendors aux overdrive.
 

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Thanks for the detailed answer.

How much do you expect the 199V to push the peak power rpm out too?




No this was 2000 amp zilla limit accounting for the flat line, unlimited battery pack power allows a single zilla2K-EHV to provide up to 170V to my Warp9's with the Helwig Brush system from Netgain. The taper is just normal fall off for Warp9 at 170V.
Most other dyno sheets you have seen are battery pack limited and can't push that 2000amps out to full 170V applied to motor. The drop off is what I get from a stock Netgain motor.

I will have a new chart with a little more data using the Helwig brushes. I am putting up to 199V on each warp9 now.




I only experienced a zilla limit when I had the two motors in series with only a single zilla. It's around 1800amps and 340V. This chart is for two parallel Warp9's with unlimited battery pack and one zilla to each motor.

The taper is due to the motor emf building up. The pack is not the limit on this dyno chart See the PVI diagram. The zilla 2K sets the top line. Without that amp limit the torque would go up to infinity along the that same line.
Note the Impulse9's from White Zombie data peak at around the same rpm.

Metric
 
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