[QuietCar]

long sad tale.

My car is insured by

American Modern Home Insurance Company. 1-800-543-2644

You apply online. Fill out their forms, then wait. About 2-4 weeks for notice.

Been with them 2 years now. Just "promised" that I was driving under 10,000 miles per year.

Also had to send in copy of title to proove I had a "main" vehicle.

Easy, not too costly either.

QC (I really like your car too)

 

[colinrickards]

long sad tale.

My car is insured by

American Modern Home Insurance Company. 1-800-543-2644

You apply online. Fill out their forms, then wait. About 2-4 weeks for notice.

Been with them 2 years now. Just "promised" that I was driving under 10,000 miles per year.

Also had to send in copy of title to proove I had a "main" vehicle.

Easy, not too costly either.

QC (I really like your car too)

Hey QC, are you States side or in Canada?

Colin

 

[Duncan]

hi,

- don't use word " converted to electric"
- tell them " i am using alternet fuel 100% electric"
- the word " converted " make whole definition change ..they will rip you off
- we canadian already screwed by insurance company all the time and will stay like that for ever

.

This is good advice - try and find out what they don't want to hear - and avoid it

Many years ago I got a very powerful mini insured for a reasonable sum by doing this
It's not a 3/4 race cam it's an XYZ1234 cam (part number)
The head is modified to reduce the compression ratio
The additional capacity is to increase drivability

Its based on a 1275GT (group 3) not a CooperS (group 6)

Find out what they want to hear,
Economy
Safe
Low power
Short range - low mileage

Or the better way is to move to NZ where my roadster is $250 per year

 

[neel]

long sad tale.

My car is insured by

American Modern Home Insurance Company. 1-800-543-2644

You apply online. Fill out their forms, then wait. About 2-4 weeks for notice.

Been with them 2 years now. Just "promised" that I was driving under 10,000 miles per year.

Also had to send in copy of title to proove I had a "main" vehicle.

Easy, not too costly either.

QC (I really like your car too)

we are @ canada, ..unfortunately !!!
all insurance company are same....same shit wine in different bottle !!
because for DIY we mostly pick the OLD cars which most of has NO ABS/ and air bags.. and they will tell you because of this two things ..safety ratings are goes down to minimum so insurance will be high !!!
because when i ask them for sample car (HONDA DEL SOL 1993) they discuses all above things...to convince me that CDN $200/ Month is legitimate!! this is liability only....NOT full coverage....!!! ASS HOLES

they a** holes...have all options to screw the people..mostly own by politicians or under huge political support...they don't allow outsider for healthy competition..that's all

that's the reason why we Canadian are screwed by this insu. company !!

that's why when i want to move forward to conversion ...it is not worthy for ordinary normal person (in my case)

i still didn't give up idea (100%) but it need a home work .. other wise ..elephant sit in leaving room ....

*** Please don't get me wrong i don't want to dis-appoint any one I am sorry if anybody hurt . i read this blog everyday.. i can see people work so hard to convert and lot of moey..personally i would congratulates and cheer UP for them...but ...in canada is NOT much HOPE for DIY EV guys..thats what i see now...future could be bright..***

 

[colinrickards]

So I have some good news!
I just a few minutes ago got a call back from my agent and they will insure me on any vehicle I want to do providing a few things.

1) passes a vehicle safety inspection
2) registered with the province as electric
3) provide proof that it's been professionally converted

Now #3 is all semantics to me. Sounds like I'll just register a business for converting EV's, I have a technician diploma in electroncis engineering so for the books it looks good, plus if they really care to look into it I'll have a buddy who is a EE technologist and one who is an industrial electrician "on the books" and should be good. Couldn't hurt to have him sign it off as meeting Ontario Electrical standards either. All complete and it'll be done as my demo/flagship conversion.
Professional installation done!

They also confirmed that it will be the same price as if it was ICE.
If it want liability, sure, if I want collision, sure, just provide the price list of the components for the EV.

My agent got the confirmation from Intact Insurance.

I'll ask them if they want to become "the people" for EV insurance and if they want me to pass their name out. I mentioned that I am in a "club" aka these forums and everyone is looking for normal insurance, so they will probably be interested.

If you have a broker who has Intact have them look into it. I wouldn't contact Intact themselves as the broker/agent generally have a little more leeway.

So good news all around

-Colin.

 

[neel]

So I have some good news!
I just a few minutes ago got a call back from my agent and they will insure me on any vehicle I want to do providing a few things.

1) passes a vehicle safety inspection
2) registered with the province as electric
3) provide proof that it's been professionally converted

Now #3 is all semantics to me. Sounds like I'll just register a business for converting EV's, I have a technician diploma in electroncis engineering so for the books it looks good, plus if they really care to look into it I'll have a buddy who is a EE technologist and one who is an industrial electrician "on the books" and should be good. Couldn't hurt to have him sign it off as meeting Ontario Electrical standards either. All complete and it'll be done as my demo/flagship conversion.
Professional installation done!

They also confirmed that it will be the same price as if it was ICE.
If it want liability, sure, if I want collision, sure, just provide the price list of the components for the EV.

My agent got the confirmation from Intact Insurance.

I'll ask them if they want to become "the people" for EV insurance and if they want me to pass their name out. I mentioned that I am in a "club" aka these forums and everyone is looking for normal insurance, so they will probably be interested.

If you have a broker who has Intact have them look into it. I wouldn't contact Intact themselves as the broker/agent generally have a little more leeway.

So good news all around

-Colin.

such a good news. from CANADIAN .you are good person so GOD listen you...

#3) is tricky part...this is CANADA

they want to tell you that your ICE to EV is converted by the " SHOP" who is certified by ministry to DO that JOB !! but in your case you DID it .. so you can't certify your EV conversion your own, sorry to say...but on paper who will certify your conversion ?? (this not safety inspection break/seat belt etc.)
if you already told this to your agent.. i am eager to know the answer given by him...

more over forknswift (http://forkenswift.com/) is a one canadian conversion who is officially driving on road ...try to contact ..how he got through...

good luck...and ...hope you will through every obstacle in your way...

 

[colinrickards]

such a good news. from CANADIAN .you are good person so GOD listen you...

#3) is tricky part...this is CANADA

they want to tell you that your ICE to EV is converted by the " SHOP" who is certified by ministry to DO that JOB !! but in your case you DID it .. so you can't certify your EV conversion your own, sorry to say...but on paper who will certify your conversion ?? (this not safety inspection break/seat belt etc.)
if you already told this to your agent.. i am eager to know the answer given by him...

more over forknswift (http://forkenswift.com/) is a one canadian conversion who is officially driving on road ...try to contact ..how he got through...

good luck...and ...hope you will through every obstacle in your way...

I spoke to them and told them that I would have it inspected and signed off by a licensed industrial electrician if they wanted I would do that along with the regular auto safety inspection.
I also asked if they wanted it on paper from a business as a professional installation or done by me and signed off and they said as long is it passes a vehicle safety inspection and electrical inspection then it's fine. If an electrician would sign it off as any other electrical thing it would be fine. They just need it in writing from the inspector.
I will probably do it under a business anyway, with all the documentation and inspection sign off's as they said it would look a bit more "legit" to the underwriter.

They were fully on board with it once I explained the whole process, she took notes the whole way and asked a pile of questions to take to the Intact underwriter and they said no problem.

Now to just get the thing built and done so we can see if they follow through on their promise.

 

[neel]

I spoke to them and told them that I would have it inspected and signed off by a licensed industrial electrician if they wanted I would do that along with the regular auto safety inspection.
I also asked if they wanted it on paper from a business as a professional installation or done by me and signed off and they said as long is it passes a vehicle safety inspection and electrical inspection then it's fine. If an electrician would sign it off as any other electrical thing it would be fine. They just need it in writing from the inspector.
I will probably do it under a business anyway, with all the documentation and inspection sign off's as they said it would look a bit more "legit" to the underwriter.

They were fully on board with it once I explained the whole process, she took notes the whole way and asked a pile of questions to take to the Intact underwriter and they said no problem.

Now to just get the thing built and done so we can see if they follow through on their promise.

thanks for update !!!
very happy to listen that.. i am my self millwright 433A and electrician 442A
in this case it looks easy..it looks like things are moving on right direction...
need to see you soon...driving EV on road...great job..good luck

have a nice day

 

[arklan]

forgive my ignorance but is there a reason u cant drive the car without insurance?

here insurance costs about 450 a year, iv never insured any of my cars and iv been driving for 7 years
thats a little over $3000 which if I put in the bank instead of insurance would pay for any crash I could have
that said my cars r all from the 80s so not worth insuring

 

[Duncan]

Hi Arklan
Where are you?
What happens if you nerf somebodies brand new Astin Martin??

I have always had third party insurance - its madness not to have it

 

[colinrickards]

forgive my ignorance but is there a reason u cant drive the car without insurance?

here insurance costs about 450 a year, iv never insured any of my cars and iv been driving for 7 years
thats a little over $3000 which if I put in the bank instead of insurance would pay for any crash I could have
that said my cars r all from the 80s so not worth insuring

Here in Canada you need to have insurance on a vehicle before you can even get the registration and ownership and plates from the MTO/DMV/Provincial Services Office.
You need to have liability and if you want your car covered for damages you get collision insurance on top of it.
For any EV I do it'll probably be just liability, unless I can afford some very new car or a very nice classic car.

 

[Moltenmetal]

I check this thread daily and there was nothing- get busy for a few days and don't check, and all of a sudden there's a flood of helpful posts!

In Canada you need liability insurance to be legally on the road- and even if it weren't legally required, you'd be crazy not to have liability insurance on your car. Forget about totalling an Aston Martin- that's peanuts! What if you hit and permanently disabled a pedestrian or cyclist? It could happen to anyone, with any kind of car- just a moment's inattention or minor mechanical problem...

I won't be taking out any comprehensive or collision insurance because I don't mind paying for my own repairs and there's little risk of it being stolen. That makes them less worried about getting an appraised value for the car etc., which makes it easier to quote insurance for.

I contacted a few people locally here and got a few more companies to try- and an e-mail quote is expected from one of them (who already insures at least one electric conversion) in the next couple of days. When it's all signed, sealed and delivered, I'll let people know who it is. The quote is reasonable since it's monthly and I won't have the car on the road in the winter.

Communication is everything: I asked for a quote to insure an alternative fueled vehicle. The KEY was to say NO to the question "Is the vehicle modified?" "Modified" is their internal code word for "street racer", which this car definitely will not be! The answer I gave to that question is 100% truthful and accurate, "No, all the safety systems- the brakes, steering, suspension, restraints, lighting, signalling and crash protection etc. are original equipment repaired and certified to good working order. The only difference is that this car is 100% electric- it has no gas engine, no gas tank, and is only capable of driving a limited distance and then only in the summer." The answer I was given was, "OK, that won't be a problem."!

Getting the car registration changed to electric at the Ministry of Transportation here is not a problem and gets you out of the Drive Clean emissions inspection- there's a process, a limited number of offices you can apply to, a form you have to fill out, and a small fee. They give you two emergency responder warning stickers to put on your car. Haven't done it myself yet, but many who have indicate it's no problem at all.

Unlike the cheap classic car insurance I couldn't get, these guys don't put any "don't drive it to work or more than 1000 km yearly" restrictions on me either. That's good, because if I can't drive it to work, the whole project is just the expensive boondoggle my wife figures I've embarked in...

Assuming this comes through, that's the last barrier removed! Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!

More pics to follow, when I have more to show that's worth showing! Floor pans are cut out and in at the bending shop, so there should be more to see soon.

Thanks so much to the people on this forum, for your help and support and encouragement! I'll be leaning on you guys hard when it comes down to it!

 

[Duncan]

In Canada you need liability insurance to be legally on the road- and even if it weren't legally required, you'd be crazy not to have liability insurance on your car. Forget about totalling an Aston Martin- that's peanuts! What if you hit and permanently disabled a pedestrian or cyclist? It could happen to anyone, with any kind of car- just a moment's inattention or minor mechanical problem.

Here in NZ we have ACC that automatically covers all personal injuries - so it is slightly less insane not to have insurance
Still a very bad idea

 

[Moltenmetal]

Duncan, you Kiwis are lucky [email protected] in a lot of ways...but you probably suffer in lots of others too, so I'm sure it balances out! Damn, I so much want to come visit NZ sometime- maybe I can think of my EV as offsetting the fuel needed for that flight half way around the world!

BC, Saskatchewan and Manitoba have province-run liability insurance programs. BC is loaded with EV conversions, and all three provinces have lower insurance by far than we do here in Ontario, the land of the so-called "free market". What a load of horsesh*t! The provinces pay for the primary healthcare of anyone hurt in a car accident already, and they legally mandate the insurance - they should be providing it. The private insurers can't prevent themselves from being scammed by phony rehab and accident repair claims anyway, and they pass the cost of those scams on to all of us. This is the reason insurance companies here are probably held below used car salesmen in the public esteem...

But thankfully, I found one who quoted me- or at least I HOPE so! I can't open their damned encrypted e-mail, and it's a half-hour wait for them to call me back...

I went forward on my project figuring that getting insurance for a car that didn't even really exist yet wasn't going to be easy, and it would be too easy to just give up from the get-go unless I got in there and started. But I wanted confirmation before I installed any of the EV stuff in the car- if I couldn't insure the car, I'd just sell all the stuff again or pay a restocking fee, lick my wounds and move on, and prove my wife right- that I am an idiot for having anything to do with that car...

But here's the thing: people in the blessed United States of America, home of the ambulance-chasing lawyer and renowned the world over for its litigiousness and crazy stuff done out of fear of civil liability, has THOUSANDS of EV conversions driving around on public roads all over the country! Hundreds in the Garage here, including some lovely Spitfires and MGs and TR6s... I thought, "Sure, some of them are playing fast and loose with the disclosure rules or driving without insurance, but not ALL of them!" And there are quite a few EV conversions in Canada too- some well-advertised ones such as the Steamwhistle Brewery's converted 50s delivery pickup truck. Many must have legit insurance from real companies willing to accept the perceived liability of insuring a "modified" car. In fact, it's that "modified" curseword that is insurance company code for "streetrod" and the perceived risk associated with that. The insurance company sales staff have a script they follow, and certain words make them push the eject button. They can be skillfully avoided without failing to disclose or telling a word of a lie.

And really, all this concern is for NOTHING. Properly done, an EV modification with LiFePO4 cells is a fairly minor change from an actual safety perspective, especially to an old car. The car will pass a Ministry certification- the engine, other than oil or exhaust leaks, isn't even on the list for certification. My car will have very nearly the same weight and weight distribution that it did pre-conversion, with a full tank of gas and perhaps a suitcase in the trunk. The best thing I could do for weight distribution in my car is to lose weight myself! The braking will be improved by the 200 A of regen I'll have to supplement the rear drums, with a pot on the dash to adjust it down if I find I'm locking the rear wheels in the rain etc. The suspension is unaltered. And I won't have 10 gallons of highly flammable gasoline sitting in a rusty steel tank, two feet behind me, separated from the passenger compartment by a sturdy piece of vinyl-covered 1/8" thick PRESSBOARD- that's how these cars were made, new from the factory...so nothing I'm doing is going to make it less safe!

So I took a flyer, as others did too. If this company doesn't work out for some reason, I'm confident that others will- as long as I communicate with them the right way.

 

[neel]

yes ,
that's one i was thinking for scenario of insurance company in Ontario ..
they don't say NO...but ...not agree easily...
because till everyone don't fill their pocket ..and enough fill...because you are saving on GAS...so you commit a crime and you have to pay for it...
but don't disappoint my friend..you work such a hard on project..things will be fine...
keep it up...

because you are in Ontario. i re-thinking on conversion again. today i see one DONOR car (engine blown) for my project..but i am watching your process closely of registration and insurance ..how you make things easy...

please update your info..it will help to understand..

thanks

 

[Moltenmetal]

RBC Insurance- I now have quote in hand, and know of at least one other who has an EV conversion on the road with them.

Quote says nothing about the car being electric, so I called and made SURE the fact that it was an "alternative fueled electric vehicle" was recorded in their file. The guy had me on hold for five minutes and came back and said, "Yes, we do insure this car". Before I drive, I will have that in writing so they can't deny me coverage in case of an accident, nor can they claim that I didn't disclose the nature of the vehicle.

They do not insure "antique vehicles" (as I found out on that 2nd confirmatory call), and will no doubt balk if you even once use the words "conversion" or "modified"- I was very careful to avoid these trigger words. The '75 Spitfire is not considered by them to be an antique- that is confirmed.

This is probably a fluke, rather than a deliberate underwriter's decision, but legally I don't think it matters. They'd have a very hard time to walk away from a claims payment now- not that I'm planning to get this car into an accident, given that the parts and repairs will be on my own nickel!

Please do me a favour: if you do call them yourself, please DO NOT mention the make and model of my car as an example- the last thing I'd want to do is mess this up after all this work, because some adjuster's spidey senses start tingling because he gets a lot of calls for EVs all of a sudden! I'd suggest that courtesy be applied to anyone who tells you who they're insured with.

 

[neel]

don't worry my friend...
i will only concerned with my model..in most case my donor car will be
2001-2005 small car (chevy aveo, suzuki swift, mazda 2, toyota echo etc.)
and in previous post i also mention i may pick toyota prius and add more battery pack...to keep only ONE CAR
that won't conflict with any of your detail...
because i don't have much auto body knowledge so i will prefer less rusty ..i will still rebuild but now like yours...

thanks for update...thanks...good luck

 

[Moltenmetal]

OK, a few more pics:

Replaced a frame member that had been cut out to fit the big Toyota engine. This will need some minor mods to fit the AC50 with the tranny at the right elevation to keep the driveshaft as straight as possible, i.e. I should have waited before doing this...

New cupronickel brake lines and stainless brake hoses- old stuff was a mess. Kit parts, so nice to work with and minimal work, and reasonable price, but with tax and the minimum fee for brokerage, and shipping charges...fortunately found a local parts guy who has some stock of this old British stuff. One of the brake tees has a fitting nut broken off in it, so I've ordered a set of Ridgid long-rip stud extractors to hopefully get it out, with the tee soaking in penetrant in the meantime. Nobody has this tee, for three Imperial bubble flare lines, except the online guys in the US and I'm done paying those #)(@# fees if I can help it!

Life goes on, so we took the day off to go launch my son's rocket, on one of the first nice days of the spring. He's enthused, and my daughter had fun too until she stepped with her sandal in a mudpit up to the ankle...

Frame more or less done, so I wheeled the two carcasses out onto the driveway so they could go past one another. Body comes back into the shop for work- lots of work...

 

[Moltenmetal]

few bits to remove still: starter relay, ignition coil etc. Kiddo takes care of it.

A little work underneath, then time to mate the body to the frame again to hold it solid while we restore the


...and there were a few rotten bits....like this rocker panel.

Fast forward after a lot of work, cutting out spot welds etc., and a new rocker is fitted- local parts guy had one:

 

[Moltenmetal]

New doorsill parts were easy enough to fabricate, using thicker steel so they don't rot out so fast next time...

Fabricating pieces was made easier with a home-made bar folder that I whipped up out of heavy angle iron at work:

Floor pan templates made of cardboard, cut out of steel and off to a local shop to fold up for me- beyond what my bar folder can do. The originals were corrugated for stiffness, but I went again with thicker steel to compensate. Preformed pans were beyond the budget of this build- had to trade sweat for money in a few places: