DIY Electric Car Forums banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
598 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The company that made the V8-style motor stack has released a battery pack that offers voltage/Ah customization and numerous sizes in the shoebox-or-two range:


Extensive specs:


Prices are $270-320/kWh depending on size and configuration. Figure maybe $200-300/kWh for a salvaged Model S battery (the low price involving the purchase of the entire pack), this might be a compelling option. A salvaged Leaf pack is still the bang-for-buck champ at around $150-200/kWh, but Model S batteries are better in every way besides packaging. Weight is like 80-90Wh/lb (Model S is closer to 100Wh/lb).

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
I'm curious what cells they are using to offer "Battery density is comparable to the Tesla 5.3kWh Module... Modules are are (sic) rated at 2,000 cycles to 85% capacity".

even at $320/kWh, it's offering both high density and high durability. sounds a little too good to be true...?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
The company that made the V8-style motor stack has released a battery pack that offers voltage/Ah customization and numerous sizes in the shoebox-or-two range:


Extensive specs:


Prices are $270-320/kWh depending on size and configuration. Figure maybe $200-300/kWh for a salvaged Model S battery (the low price involving the purchase of the entire pack), this might be a compelling option. A salvaged Leaf pack is still the bang-for-buck champ at around $150-200/kWh, but Model S batteries are better in every way besides packaging. Weight is like 80-90Wh/lb (Model S is closer to 100Wh/lb).

Just ordered the OX Drive Power. They are going to customize for my Sandrail Hyper9 Project. Blew out my LGChems which left me choosing between Teslas and OXDP. OXDP were customizable, cheaper, and would fit my project better. Standby for updates. 8 weeks is the lead time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Just ordered the OX Drive Power. They are going to customize for my Sandrail Hyper9 Project. Blew out my LGChems which left me choosing between Teslas and OXDP. OXDP were customizable, cheaper, and would fit my project better. Standby for updates. 8 weeks is the lead time.
looking forward to hear from you how it performs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
I am also very curious as to the outcome of your order. Also, I'd like to know what you meant by "Blew out my LGchems"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
532 Posts
Looks like it's merely a series stack of Chevy Bolt batteries with milled end plates.

What else is there?

What's the cooling strategy?
 

·
Registered
Classic Minis
Joined
·
35 Posts
What's the cooling strategy?
For some reason I thought they were air-cooled originally, but offers this in the brochure:

BATTERY THERMAL MANAGEMENT SYSTEM (TMS) Electric GT offers a fully integrated TMS Suite of Products to address proper Battery Thermal Management. Both core Products and Systems are available to support the EV industry. Battery Chill Plates, Thermal Pads, and Coolant Systems are available through Electric GT
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,222 Posts
They appear to have thermally conductive plates between cells which bend 90 degrees at one long cell edge (or both opposite long cell edges) to form a heat transfer surface on one (or two opposite faces), where a "chill plate" (heat exchanger) is to be placed. This is the usual LG Chem design, found in the modules used in the Chrysler Pacifica, Chevrolet Bolt, and others.

The "Energy" modules (left in the photo, plastic cover on top and cast aluminum housing on the end) appear to be set up for heat transfer on the bottom only, while the "Power" modules (right in the photo, milled aluminum housing on the end) appear to be set up for heat transfer on both sides, and one short cell side as well. The drawing for the power modules says
"Chill plate can be mounted to Either side or Bottom(less surface area)"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,222 Posts
I thought that the Energy modules looked a lot like what Zero EV sells as Calb 3P4S Battery Module 2.2 kWh. I finally got around to checking dimensions, and they're identical. My guess is that ElectricGT is buying the same 4S3P and 6S2P modules from CALB as Zero EV, and selling them as "OX-Drive Energy".
That's okay, as long as these are new modules, legitimately purchased, and ElectricGT stands behind the warranty (whatever it might be). From any supplier, the 6S choice is great for those wanting to build a moderate size of pack: for example,16 modules for 42.6 kWh at 360 V nominal from 249 kg, instead of 24 of the same size modules with the 4S configuration or only six of the formerly ubiquitous LG Chem 16S1P modules with only 16 kWh of capacity. For buyers outside of the UK, I'll note that ElectricGT's price is much lower ($599 USD) than Zero EV's (£570 GBP).

Among other implications, this means that the OX-Drive Energy modules would fit Zero EV's cooling plates (and pads and mounting hardware). Unfortunately for those of us in North America, those plates use British Standard Parallel Pipe ports (which are not compatible with NPS); at least it's a face-sealed joint, rather than tapered thread seal.

One caution in reading the OX-Drive specifications: ElectricGT is listing the number of cells in series as just "cells", and listing amp-hour capacities for the module, rather than the cell. The Energy modules are listed as roughly 100 and 150 Ah and implied to be 6S1P and 4S1P, while they appear to be actually composed of 6S2P and 4S3P configurations all of the same roughly 50 Ah cells. Again, I don't see anything wrong with the design - the documentation is just not clear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
I thought that the Energy modules looked a lot like what Zero EV sells as Calb 3P4S Battery Module 2.2 kWh. I finally got around to checking dimensions, and they're identical. My guess is that ElectricGT is buying the same 4S3P and 6S2P modules from CALB as Zero EV, and selling them as "OX-Drive Energy".
The identical dimensions may not be coincidence, and both modules may or may not be identical components.

I say this because most modules from battery manufacturers in China are built to follow the VDA standardization (from Germany), which comes in the 355, 390 or 590 standard. Numbers represent the length in mm, but the width and heights are fixed according to each modules too.

Likewise, many automakers in China and around the world are also using this standard size to maximize cost savings from off-the-shelf parts. e.g. VW's MEB platform uses the 590 standard, while NIO for example uses the 355.

The CALB 3P4S cells from Zero EV is 355mm, and OX-Drive is 356mm. They may be identical components, or they may just be following the same standard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,222 Posts
... most modules from battery manufacturers in China are built to follow the VDA standardization (from Germany), which comes in the 355, 390 or 590 standard. Numbers represent the length in mm, but the width and heights are fixed according to each modules too.

Likewise, many automakers in China and around the world are also using this standard size to maximize cost savings from off-the-shelf parts. e.g. VW's MEB platform uses the 590 standard, while NIO for example uses the 355.
Excellent info :) Leave it to the Germans to actually make a standard, in an industry segment which has so far been highly resistant to standards.

The CALB 3P4S cells from Zero EV is 355mm, and OX-Drive is 356mm. They may be identical components, or they may just be following the same standard.
The energy capacity, number of cells, and the two offered configurations (4S3P or 6S2P, but not 12S1P or 3S4P or 2S1P) also match, and the externally visible construction and terminal configuration are nearly identical... but that could be just be that both manufacturers (CALB and the mystery source of the OX-Drive Energy) made the same sensible choices, perhaps even with the same cells, and the terminals might be part of the standard.


If standards for battery modules become widespread (not just used by some German manufacturers), choosing modules which conform to the standards might be valuable when the time for replacements comes in the future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
I thought that the Energy modules looked a lot like what Zero EV sells as Calb 3P4S Battery Module 2.2 kWh. I finally got around to checking dimensions, and they're identical. My guess is that ElectricGT is buying the same 4S3P and 6S2P modules from CALB as Zero EV, and selling them as "OX-Drive Energy".
That's okay, as long as these are new modules, legitimately purchased, and ElectricGT stands behind the warranty (whatever it might be). From any supplier, the 6S choice is great for those wanting to build a moderate size of pack: for example,16 modules for 42.6 kWh at 360 V nominal from 249 kg, instead of 24 of the same size modules with the 4S configuration or only six of the formerly ubiquitous LG Chem 16S1P modules with only 16 kWh of capacity. For buyers outside of the UK, I'll note that ElectricGT's price is much lower ($599 USD) than Zero EV's (£570 GBP).

Among other implications, this means that the OX-Drive Energy modules would fit Zero EV's cooling plates (and pads and mounting hardware). Unfortunately for those of us in North America, those plates use British Standard Parallel Pipe ports (which are not compatible with NPS); at least it's a face-sealed joint, rather than tapered thread seal.

One caution in reading the OX-Drive specifications: ElectricGT is listing the number of cells in series as just "cells", and listing amp-hour capacities for the module, rather than the cell. The Energy modules are listed as roughly 100 and 150 Ah and implied to be 6S1P and 4S1P, while they appear to be actually composed of 6S2P and 4S3P configurations all of the same roughly 50 Ah cells. Again, I don't see anything wrong with the design - the documentation is just not clear.
Unfortunately the LG Chem 16s batteries have a cease and desist order for anyone trying to sell them. I have 12 and would like 6 more to give me a 48 kWh pack. Back to the drawing board for my next builds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,222 Posts
... VDA standardization (from Germany), which comes in the 355, 390 or 590 standard. Numbers represent the length in mm, but the width and heights are fixed according to each modules too.

Likewise, many automakers in China and around the world are also using this standard size to maximize cost savings from off-the-shelf parts. e.g. VW's MEB platform uses the 590 standard, while NIO for example uses the 355.
The second generation of VW e-Golf (2017+) appears to use a VDA standard overall size as well; it is not MEB, and appears to use the VDA 355 standard overall size.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,222 Posts
Unfortunately the LG Chem 16s batteries have a cease and desist order for anyone trying to sell them. I have 12 and would like 6 more to give me a 48 kWh pack. Back to the drawing board for my next builds.
There is a fix for this situation: sell the 12 LG Chem 16S modules to people who want to assemble small packs, and build a 48 kWh pack for yourself from OX-Drive Energy modules.
  • 18 LG Chem 16S modules: 2.7 kWh and 17.2 kg each, for 48.6 kWh and 310 kg in 211 litres of volume (presmably 3 or more strings of modules in parallel, for 360 volts or less)
  • 24 OX-Drive Energy modules: 2.2 kWh and 11.2 kg each, for 52.8 kWh and 269 kg in 142 litres of volume (if 4S3P connecting all in series would give 360 volts)
Of course it would be expensive because you would be selling existing stock at a private sale price and buying new modules at retail: the retail value of the LG Chem 16S modules was about $735 USD, or $13,230 total (depending on supplier - that's the EV West price), and the OX-Drive Energy modules are $599 USD from ElectricGT, or $14,376 total.

The LG Chem 16S modules are not really suitable for large packs because of their 16S configuration - unless you're building an extremely high-voltage pack, you end up paralleling them and so increasing wiring and BMS cost. People do it, only because that's what's available in what Tremelune called a "shoebox or two" format. The 4S and 6S configurations of the OX-Drive (and CALB from Zero EV, and VW eGolf) modules allow all of the modules in the pack to be connected in series for reasonable pack sizes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
I always wondered if the EV West stock was 'new' or used cells. If new, $735 wasn't bad. But I paid $450 from Thunderstruck Motors for used cells. I've yet to get them into a vehicle, but you know how that goes...

-Matt
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top