[aproldan]

hi, Aproldan
you still have a deck : )))) - can you tell hour range with blades on/off; (load on the blades, at least approximately)?
thank you

the green tractor is the only one i left the cuttingdeck on and at the time i converted it, i didn't have a motor strong enough for the 38" deck.. so the one i tried kind of flopped( but i expected that)... this passed october i made the mini ride on mower and this is what i'm am using on it..
for the cutting deck is 20" blade being powered by a 1.5hp [email protected] 24 volts.. it spins @3000rpm... as long as you keep the blades shape you won't strain the motor... she cuts very nicely when the grass is 2-4" high... now i have cut grass 12" high with the mini with nice shape blades, but i was also going snail pace... if you get the timing down with the drive speed and the cutting deck she will run perfect but it is tough... i have @ 12v/60amp hr batteries running the cutting deck and the drive system at the same time and getting 55 minutes before i need to throw it on charge... when i want to fast charge it i use my car battery charger and it set on 20amps.. it takes 1 hour for each batteries( only have one car charger ) so 2 hours later i am off and cutting again... but is if i throw it on my deep charger it takes 4.5 hours to charge.. sorry i'm just rambling... anyway the way i figure things out you would need around 3-4 hp motor to work a 38" deck.. 5 hp to work a 42" or higher... but my opinion use 2 motors one dedicated to the cutting deck and on for the drive system...BTW the drive system on the mini is only 500 watt motor... so it doesn't use that much power from the batteries and i keep it between 1st - 3rd gear depending on the height of the grass... keep it simple and your project will last a long time when finish... i hope this answers some of your questions if not let me know...

 

[gor]

the green tractor is the only one i left the cuttingdeck on and at the time i converted it, i didn't have a motor strong enough for the 38" deck.. so the one i tried kind of flopped( but i expected that)... this passed october i made the mini ride on mower and this is what i'm am using on it..
for the cutting deck is 20" blade being powered by a 1.5hp [email protected] 24 volts.. it spins @3000rpm... as long as you keep the blades shape you won't strain the motor... she cuts very nicely when the grass is 2-4" high... now i have cut grass 12" high with the mini with nice shape blades, but i was also going snail pace... if you get the timing down with the drive speed and the cutting deck she will run perfect but it is tough... i have @ 12v/60amp hr batteries running the cutting deck and the drive system at the same time and getting 55 minutes before i need to throw it on charge... when i want to fast charge it i use my car battery charger and it set on 20amps.. it takes 1 hour for each batteries( only have one car charger ) so 2 hours later i am off and cutting again... but is if i throw it on my deep charger it takes 4.5 hours to charge.. sorry i'm just rambling... anyway the way i figure things out you would need around 3-4 hp motor to work a 38" deck.. 5 hp to work a 42" or higher... but my opinion use 2 motors one dedicated to the cutting deck and on for the drive system...BTW the drive system on the mini is only 500 watt motor... so it doesn't use that much power from the batteries and i keep it between 1st - 3rd gear depending on the height of the grass... keep it simple and your project will last a long time when finish... i hope this answers some of your questions if not let me know...

thank you, A.
2 x 20'' blade: 1.5hp min, 2-4 hp [1-3kw] motor; 1-2 kw per 20''blade
cut+drive range: ~55min with 24v, 1.5hp [1.125 kw] at 3000 rpm motor & 2 x 12v 60ah batt.
so it takes about 1440 w (24v 60ah) batt. for 1125w motor for cut+drive (128%)

i agree, though one motor system simpler and lighter for conversions, two (multi) motors would let us use low rpm torque and throttle/rpm/reverse control

Aproldan, what do you think would be hour-range without blades-on (similar driving)?

 

[aproldan]

Aproldan, what do you think would be hour-range without blades-on (similar driving)?

without a cutting deck and just a drive system.. with the stock gear ratio i see a good 2-3 hours... i'm only getting a 55min run time because my battery is 9 years old... i know it should be dead but she still working and holding a charge @13.1 volts... i don't think you can find this series any more but they are Hawker energy SBS 60/2 .. the manufacture date on my batteries are 09/29/00
one thing you need to keep in mind with batteries.. do not use car batteries, they are made for putting out high amps for a short time.. where deep cycle batteries are designed to put out a constant flow for a long period of time... which is what you need for this kind of project...

 

[gor]

without a cutting deck and just a drive system.. with the stock gear ratio i see a good 2-3 hours... i'm only getting a 55min run time because my battery is 9 years old... i know it should be dead but she still working and holding a charge @13.1 volts... i don't think you can find this series any more but they are Hawker energy SBS 60/2 .. the manufacture date on my batteries are 09/29/00
one thing you need to keep in mind with batteries.. do not use car batteries, they are made for putting out high amps for a short time.. where deep cycle batteries are designed to put out a constant flow for a long period of time... which is what you need for this kind of project...

so, blades takes most of the power...
on one built http://ecorenovator.org/forum/proje...er-riding-lawn-mower-electric-conversion.html
it took10-25 amps to drive around and whole 25amps only to run blades in the air (spindle bearings and belts -new)

(i been wondering why el.mower manufacturers putting motors on top of the spindles directly ... range ?!... : ))))) ("hell with motors! - got all the beating, but might hold till warranty over"... ?! : ))))) (spindles, at least on pro mowers, got replaced once in a not very long while)

 

[partytrain]

Aproldan-- On the motor most everyone is telling me to go with a 24-36v motor. I see the 12v you have on the murray seems to have plenty of power and speed... Which 12v motor are you using?
I'm only looking to move at 5mph max with the train... And I think using the bateries in a 12volt state would help on the charging process so I wouldn't have to spend $$ on a 36v charger or have to remove the cables and charge them individualy.
The crafstman rear end looks very simular to the murray one... You stated you changed to chain and gear instead of belt... what was the main reason why?
Found a couple of used tractors on craigslist and will purchase one soon to start my electric train project....
Thanks!

 

[aproldan]

Aproldan-- On the motor most everyone is telling me to go with a 24-36v motor. I see the 12v you have on the murray seems to have plenty of power and speed... Which 12v motor are you using?
I'm only looking to move at 5mph max with the train... And I think using the bateries in a 12volt state would help on the charging process so I wouldn't have to spend $$ on a 36v charger or have to remove the cables and charge them individualy.
The crafstman rear end looks very simular to the murray one... You stated you changed to chain and gear instead of belt... what was the main reason why?
Found a couple of used tractors on craigslist and will purchase one soon to start my electric train project....
Thanks!

ok partytrain: went back and read what you are trying to do with your project... before i start i will need to answer your questions in the quote..
the murray motor is not a 12 volt motor... it is a 48volt 1.5 hp.. you really don't want to use a 12 volt motor for your train. here's why if you find a
12 volt/ 3 hp motor it will pull around 186 amps @stall which will heat the motor up and your wires. and that's without any kids on it. not good for the motor where if you use a 36 volt/ 3 hp motor it will only pull 62 amps @ stall.. hope you see where i'm getting at with this.. much safer for the kids and your motor...
as for me using chain rather than belt for me 2 reasons.. first and most important was for the kids the belt drive was too quiet and my kids would not hear the tractor coming toward them if you were not paying attention, so i put the chain drive on it so it would make noise and my kids kind hear it coming... it's not very loud but just the right level of noise for them.. second: with a belt drive, the tighter the belt the more amps it pulls @no load .. those are unnecessary amps being wasted.. chain drive barely pulls any amps @ no load.. here is what i mean. when i had the belt drive on the tractor in 5th gear it pulled 50 amps. when i switched the tractor to chain drive in 5th gear it only pulled 30 amps.. big difference,.so now you get a little longer range and your not straining the motor.. which means it will last much longer..
if you can stay in the 24-36 volt range it might be good for you because of battery weight... but try to distribute the weight and not put them all up front.. the more weight up front the hard it may be to steer. less weight the easier it is to steer.. my murray has only 20 lbs in front and i can steer with my palm not 2 hands.. it's so easy to steer it's kind of feels like power steering... as for chargers for over night charging you can use a regular scooter charger( i use one on my mini for over night charging when i know i will be cutting grass in the morning.. another thing slow charge is much better for batteries and they will last a long time...
now how many kids are you looking to have on your train at one time the would help me and others here to determine what size motor you will need... i may be able to help you i have some motors here only used for a few hour for testing... i have a 36 volt/1.5 hp,this one is a heavy duty motor 1) 36 volt/2.5 hp.. anyway how many minutes for each ride and how often? 20 rides a day less more.. all input is need to get you the right set up.. sorry for such a long reply..
here is a pic i just took with my cel phone of the 2 motors i mentioned. the motor in the middle is the same one i have in the murray. notice how much smaller it is compared to the other 2..

 

[robdunstan]

hello everyone,

i am partytrains business partner. he does all the mechanical stuff and i build the trains we sell. what we are trying to do ultimately is to come up with a electric version of our train to be used in malls and indoor events where the exhaust fumes aren't allowed.

if anybody would like to see the train, it is on ebay. it is the one for 4999. the configuration is usually a engine, a open car, and a caboose. we would need to be able to add and additional open car to the setup. these trains are made for rentals and must be able to operate for at least 6-8 hours nonstop. the cars can hold roughly 4 to 8 children each, depending on the size of the child which is why we use DOT rated trailers. the cars are very easy to move and barely puts a strain on a 17 hp mower that we currently use as the engine power.

battery setup is not that critical as we can be very creative in designing a way to hold the batteries we will need. the fewer the better but if not, that's fine too.

we looked into the electric ox but the price of that thing made me almost pass out.

we do appreciate all of the great advice and help that you have given us.

thanks,
robert

 

[Jimdear2]

hello everyone,

i am partytrains business partner. he does all the mechanical stuff and i build the trains we sell. what we are trying to do ultimately is to come up with a electric version of our train to be used in malls and indoor events where the exhaust fumes aren't allowed.

Sounds like it can be done but be aware this is not going to be an inexpensive project. You can easily put a couple of grand into something like this, even if you shop for and find bargains. Batteries, Chargers and Controllers are very expensive.

A very good option, since you are selling these, is to spend a few dollars on a EV consultent. I don't remember the names offhand, go to the Technical forum and place a post asking who and where.

If anybody would like to see the train, it is on ebay. it is the one for 4999.

I looked but couldn't find it. How about a link.

The configuration is usually a engine, a open car, and a caboose. we would need to be able to add and additional open car to the setup. these trains are made for rentals and must be able to operate for at least 6-8 hours nonstop. the cars can hold roughly 4 to 8 children each, depending on the size of the child which is why we use DOT rated trailers. the cars are very easy to move and barely puts a strain on a 17 hp mower that we currently use as the engine power.

If you are looking for a inexpensive power option and you are willing to do any overhaul and custom fabrication work needed, you might take a look at motor, controller and other components from a used smaller lift truck (HiLo). You can quite often score a truck with a charger for a few hundred, Usually a bad battery or trans. You part out what you need sell the good parts you don't need and the scrap the rest

Look Up Project Forkenswift http://forkenswift.com/

The operating time and weight you are describing would be close to what they use. I think the battery capacity, voltage and motor of a 4 to 6000 pound Hi Lo would be very close to your needs. Since you would not be powering the lift pump and such you could probably reduce battery capacity by 20% over what they used.

I would strongly recommend you take your decisions on motor and controller along with Grosse Weight for the loaded train to the Battery Forum and get someone who has the Math to go over your needs.

If you want to go with new components I would look at:
An EV purpose built 6.7 or 7 inch motor. (8 - 12 HP continious and 30 - 40 HP max). The motor you want should be most efficient and make maximum power/torque at about 3000 RPM. This should work best with the garden tractor transaxle.
The motor MUST be internal fan cooled and you might need an external fan as well.
Run it at 36 to 48 volts.
Use a good commercial brand name controller like Alltrax, Curtis or their equivalent.
Use brand name contactors, fuses, throttle pot, cableing and batteries.
Hi quality deep cycle batteries. Best would be 6 volt. These batteries can cost a big chunk, but they are the heart of the system, you wont want to skimp.

battery setup is not that critical as we can be very creative in designing a way to hold the batteries we will need. the fewer the better but if not, that's fine too.

we looked into the electric ox but the price of that thing made me almost pass out.

we do appreciate all of the great advice and help that you have given us.

thanks,
robert

 

[robdunstan]

thanks jim

you need to search for "trackless train".

 

[aproldan]

thanks jim

you need to search for "trackless train".

just checked your train out very cool... i like it... now that i know what it is, you need 6-10 hp to handle what the gasone is doing..you should look into series wound motors. would work best on your appication.. series wound motor would be your best bet.. good luck

 

[Jimdear2]

thanks jim

you need to search for "trackless train".

Found it, kind of neat.

Just a few additional notes.

In the information below I list a lot of eBay and off brand stuff. Since this is a commercial endevor you are going to need repeatable stuff, so figure on the High End of the range.

The attached pictures show the Cub Cadet I converted using a rebuilt HiLo pump motor of about 6 to 8 continous horsepower (best guess). I bought the motor from a rebuilding shop on the internet for around $200.00. The second picture shows all of the components needed to control the motor with the exception of the foot throttle and the emergency disconnect.




Something to give you an idea of what costs you are looking at and will need for a 48 volt system.

1. The controller (from $200.00 used, up to $4000.00 for the top end)
2. The main contactor. (One at least but it is best to have 2. from $65.00 to a $1000.00 each)
3. The 400 amp main fuse (Again two are better. Fuse with holder $30.00 to $40.00 each. Note a DC circuit breaker can cost $200.00 - $300.00 in this voltage/amprage range.)
4. Battery charge port (Anderson connectors, about $25.00 for the paired set)
5. Other wiring and connections for precharge, safety and interlock functions. (figure at least $50 - $100.00 for misc.
6. The battery you see is only for the 12 volt control functions and to run the 12 volt motor cooling fan. (Additional battery, switch and relay, cooling fan, filter and ducting, $100.00)
7. Emergency disconnect, not shown. (I used an Albright. About $80.00)
8. Throttle control unit, not shown. ($65.00 to $250.00)
9. 1/0 welding cable and connectors (about $75.00)
10. Motor 6.7 to 8 inch (depending on choice and power need, from $200.00 to $1500.00)
11. Batteries depending on choice (From hundreds to thousands)
12. Battery Charger, depending on battery choice. For an overnight charge on 110 volts (could be $1000.00 plus) Cheap chargers can ruin batteries.

Look carefully below in the picture and you can see the motor. The air filter you see is used to filter the motor cooling air and keep dust and debris out of the motor.

The weight transfer sled you see being towed has a dead weight of 8900 pounds. With the weight box all of the way back and the weight balanced on the wheels, I have no problems pulling it around at up to 5mph using second (of three) gear.

The motor and controller are going to be the easier part of your conversion. to run this machine all day is going to take a pretty substantial battery size/weight battery pack if you use lead acid.

Again I stress go to the battery forum and get one of the people who are on top of the math and have them help you select a battery pack size

The Cub I converted in action, you will notice the weight sled never stalled the motor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0shCm6swxXg

Now you know why the Electric Ox costs so much.

Hope this helps.

 

[automd]

Found it, kind of neat.

Just a few additional notes.

In the information below I list a lot of eBay and off brand stuff. Since this is a commercial endevor you are going to need repeatable stuff, so figure on the High End of the range.

The attached pictures show the Cub Cadet I converted using a rebuilt HiLo pump motor of about 6 to 8 continous horsepower (best guess). I bought the motor from a rebuilding shop on the internet for around $200.00. The second picture shows all of the components needed to control the motor with the exception of the foot throttle and the emergency disconnect.

1. Battery Charger, depending on battery choice. For an overnight charge on 110 volts (could be $1000.00 plus) Cheap chargers can ruin batteries.

Look carefully below in the picture and you can see the motor. The air filter you see is used to filter the motor cooling air and keep dust and debris out of the motor.

The weight transfer sled you see being towed has a dead weight of 8900 pounds. With the weight box all of the way back and the weight balanced on the wheels, I have no problems pulling it around at up to 5mph using second (of three) gear.

The motor and controller are going to be the easier part of your conversion. to run this machine all day is going to take a pretty substantial battery size/weight battery pack if you use lead acid.

Again I stress go to the battery forum and get one of the people who are on top of the math and have them help you select a battery pack size

The Cub I converted in action, you will notice the weight sled never stalled the motor.


Now you know why the Electric Ox costs so much.

Hope this helps.

IMHO, it's always better to buy some tested chargers & not just because of the price. Same goes for brands too

 

[ngrimm]

Since the hydrostatic drive has been mentioned, I wonder if anyone has tried operating the throttle pot from the hydro's control lever. I realize it is a little redundant to use both throttle and hydro for speed control but I think that would be easier to operate than having separate controls. I have a hydro on my horseless carriage replica and have been thinking about converting to electric. I agree the hydro's internal braking wouldn't work very well with electric since you need to keep the motor rpm up. I'm not sure that it relies on the engine compression for braking though. On my carriage it seems more like it is just tied to rpm since it brakes much better when the engine is running faster.

 

[ceh4702]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RSqImgaW2U&feature=related

This is an interesting young man and his go cart. . . . I thought this video was kind of cute. He was not using very large batteries either. Looked like a small 48 volt DC Motor.

I am thinking you dont need much of a load for a lawn mower, so maybe get a smaller motor.

You going to use a transverse axle and a clutch? I am thinking normally there is always a blade spinning, and the Transverse axle has a reutral position, and a shifter to engage the rear axle.

You might want to look at a forum dedicated to racing lawn mowers.

I have an old 110 electric lawmower in my shed doing nothing. The power lever kind of wore our and I decied it was not worth messing with. May be more trouble than it is worth.

Be careful.

I have an old 110 electric lawmower in my shed doing nothing. The power lever kind of wore our and I decied it was not worth messing with. May be more trouble than it is worth. To run it it would require some kind of an inverter. Usually, you just run it wide open like a normal lawn mower. It spins fast, but I doubt it can run a car.

 

[major]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RSqImgaW2U&feature=related

This is an interesting young man and his go cart. . . . I thought this video was kind of cute.

Brakes.....We don't need no friggin brakes

Yeah, give the kid some credit. Hope he doesn't break his neck