Electric Snow Mobile - AC

1441 Views 9 Replies 6 Participants Last post by vaporer, May 8, 2017

jhuebner

Discussion Starter · May 4, 2017

Hi all,

just back from north of Sweden. I rode a snow mobile and was very irritated by smell and noise. So now I plan to build an electric one.

I don't know too much about snow mobiles though. There have been a couple of commercial attempts of which some succeeded. They all used around 13kWh of capacity.

What sort of power does a snow mobile need to be fun?
What range do the gasoline models have?
How heavy may it be to not sink in soft snow?
Is there any registration procedure (in Sweden)?
What is a good source of donor vehicle?

Motor-wise I'm planning to do AC induction and homebrew controller (no surprise here). I consider building an 18650 pack on the high voltage side, around 400V. So for example 100S13P. I found it hard to find Nissan Leaf or other OEM packs here in Europe, any hints?

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Moltenmetal

· #2 · May 4, 2017

Interesting project!

A lot of snowmobiles here in Canada are taken by trailer a fair distance to a trail head, rather than just pulling out of a heated garage, so obviously pack heating and maintaining that pack heat during transport would be an issue.

There are a lot of deaths resulting from people speeding out over thin ice or even unexpected open water- of course alcohol is often a culprit. A heavier machine would obviously make that somewhat riskier.

Otherwise, I'll defer to snow machine enthusiasts to provide advice about good candidate donors, power expectations etc.

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jhuebner

Discussion Starter · #3 · May 4, 2017

Right, pack heating is on the list. I'll definitely use an isolated enclosure. For heating I'll try the technique of shifting power between two pack halfs at high frequency and thus heat the cells from inside out.

I did some research on 18650 cells. Some 2.5Ah, 20A model I picked weighs 49g. So my anticipated 100S13P 12kWh pack would weigh just 64kg in cells.

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dain254

· #4 · May 4, 2017

If you don't enjoy the smell and noise of a sled, perhaps you should take up cross country skiing!

If I were going to make an honest attempt at an electric snowmobile... I'd go the timbersled route instead. Energy consumption is going to kill you on a full sized snowmobile... 20mpg is considered good fuel economy. Think of that like trying to power an electric pickup truck - 10kwh of juice would get you about 20 miles. so the standard 13.. maybe 30? your 100S pack will also need a battery management capable of managing 100 cells in series...

For power, you'll want heat to your batteries and take heat away from the motor... and 13kwh... Tesla made modules for both Toyota and Smart that are 18650's - a combination of those would get you around 100V in which there are a few good liquid cooled brushless motors that kick out 30-40kw.. plus those batteries have the cooling passages built in to grab the heat from the motor. Good luck!

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John Metric

· #5 · May 6, 2017

If you are interested in range I can't help but if snow mobile drag racing sounds fun. I have an answer. 1000HP brushless motor small battery

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brian_

· #6 · May 6, 2017

jhuebner said:
just back from north of Sweden. I rode a snow mobile and was very irritated by smell and noise. So now I plan to build an electric one.

If you rode a snowmobile with an older two-stroke engine, the much easier solution is to just buy a modern snowmobile, preferably with a four-stroke engine. If you're determined to go electric - okay, but don't expect it to be very satisfactory for most riders.

jhuebner said:
I don't know too much about snow mobiles though. There have been a couple of commercial attempts of which some succeeded.

I live in Canada, I rode a snowmobile four decades ago, although I have not ridden one since I do read about them occasionally... and I've never heard of a commercially successful electric snowmobile. Do you have a name or a link?

jhuebner said:
What sort of power does a snow mobile need to be fun?

It takes a lot of power to move through snow, and on nicely groomed trails people expect to go fast. The track takes a lot of power to turn, even just hanging in the air. Many buyers treat these machines like sport motorcycles - they expect extreme performance. As a result, many snowmobiles have more engine power than most small cars.

jhuebner said:
They all used around 13kWh of capacity.
...
What range do the gasoline models have?

How much gas do you want to carry? People on long trips routinely carry extra fuel in containers on the rear cargo rack... not exactly an option for an electric machine. I don't think range is much of a concern for gas snowmobiles... they go as far as people want to in a ride.

jhuebner said:
How heavy may it be to not sink in soft snow?

That's entirely dependent on track and ski area. Machines for deep powder or high cargo loads have very long tracks.

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brian_

· #7 · May 6, 2017

John Metric said:
If you are interested in range I can't help but if snow mobile drag racing sounds fun.

Drag racing seems like the only application which is likely to work well... although I've never understood the idea of using snowmobiles for drag racing. It's not as if they run on a natural snow-covered surface - you might as well use a motorcycle.

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John Metric

· #8 · May 6, 2017

Yes agreed. But our 1000HP electric motor and a small 100C lithium pack would do good against gassers. If someone wants to race snowmobiles, it is feasible. I think long range is not yet viable.

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jhuebner

Discussion Starter · #9 · May 7, 2017

Here are some links:
https://taigamotors.ca/
http://www.icatpro.com/

Hard to say if it's just marketing boohaha or if they actually produce anything.

Timbersled is an interesting alternative if I could find an already converted dirtbike for little funds.

I wasn't thinking about drag racing, yet

Noise and smell: people revving their vehicles engine remind me of Jeremy Clarkson aka "the Orang Utang". It's the sound of the past to me and definitely nothing I enjoy.

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vaporer

· #10 · May 8, 2017

Snowmobiles need 100-200 horses to be fun. More power is more fun.

Today's models are getting 200-300+ km range from one tank of gas.

Forget 100s13p. Too little range and not enough current tip have fun.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

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