DIY Electric Car Forums banner
21 - 40 of 94 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,913 Posts
It also depends on super/ultra capacitors. Still in its infancy, but. I do fancy capacitors. Hoping for 70-80 mile range.
Capacitors for EV energy storage have never succeeded, because they just don't work very well. Part of the problem is that while batteries change in voltage by only a small fraction of their nominal voltage with a change in state of charge, fully discharging a capacitor means taking its voltage to zero (obviously not practical), so only part of the potential energy stored is usable.

There were some hybrid buses with capacitors instead of a battery, but their storage requirement is very short duration compared to a purely electric vehicle, and due to the size of the vehicle the peak power requirement is high.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,913 Posts
Even though the Eluminator is 280hp, is there a need to use it all?
No, and there's no need to go to the expense and carry the weight of a larger unit than necessary.

While I would likely prefer the Front Eluminator, its not offered as of yet.
I doubt they're ever offer the much lower-powered Mach-E front drive unit as a "crate" item, for the same reason that they don't offer low-powered engines that way... it's a performance market. The "crate motor" style of product is only an advantage if it is offered with support for non-stock installations, and that isn't even true of the Eluminator yet... so you might as well salvage a suitable drive unit from a wrecked EV - they generally don't wear out so used is about as good as new.

Front units from various AWD EVs are possibilities, because the front unit is in some cases lower in power (and so smaller and lighter), although more are simply identical (in motor size and power) to the rear. The sole drive unit in a compact front wheel drive EV would generally be reasonably sized. Even the electric drive unit from one end of a plug-in hybrid which has engine driving one axle and electric-only for the other axle is a possibility, for a very light car.

Due to very limited available space, a drive unit for the rear of a sevenesque car will probably fit best if the motor is coaxial with the axles, placing the motor on the axle line instead of ahead of or behind it. Both Mach-E units are coaxial (although they're otherwise unrelated designs from different suppliers), as are the Chevrolet Spark and Bolt, Porsche Taycan front, and others... but the units with the best aftermarket/DIY support (Tesla induction motors and the Nissan Volt unit) are not coaxial.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,885 Posts
The problem is that most of the AWD Mach-E's are hard front-hits (that horsepower in excess of driving skill thing again). If they're not hit hard, they get bid high and repaired for resale in this crazy used car market.

The prices at salvage yards are equal to or higher than the parts department because they know these are backordered items. A conversion person doesn't care about a 3 month order leadtime. An insurance company's claimant sure does.

You CAN get parts for Mach-E from your neighborhood Ford parts department, including the front unit. Probably never from Ford Performance, but who cares if the price is the same or less at yor Ford dealer, which it appears to be.

The front unit is also small enough to where you have lots of inverter options out there to run it. So, that's not a showstopper.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
You CAN get parts for Mach-E from your neighborhood Ford parts department, including the front unit. Probably never from Ford Performance, but who cares if the price is the same or less at yor Ford dealer, which it appears to b
Right, tried here in Canada. Maybe the dealer called Performance. I will try again. Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,885 Posts
The front traction inverter part number for Mach-E, is LJ9Z7B012C

$1210.46 USD from Lakeland Ford in Florida

plus $250 core charge

Fits:

Ford Mustang Mach-E -L - cylinder ELECTRIC A/T AWD First Edition Sport Utility 2021Ford Mustang Mach-E -L - cylinder ELECTRIC A/T AWD GT Sport Utility 2021Ford Mustang Mach-E -L - cylinder ELECTRIC A/T AWD Premium Sport Utility 2021Ford Mustang Mach-E -L - cylinder ELECTRIC A/T AWD Select Sport Utility 2021Ford Mustang Mach-E -L - cylinder ELECTRIC A/T RWD California Route 1 Sport Utility 2021Ford Mustang Mach-E -L - cylinder ELECTRIC A/T RWD Premium Sport Utility 2021Ford Mustang Mach-E -L - cylinder ELECTRIC A/T RWD Select Sport Utility 2

Edit: it fits the GT, and the GT Performance isn't out yet as far as parts is concerned
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,885 Posts
Interesting. The two drive units, big (GT Performance) and small (GT) are shown, but I can't drill down for part numbers at Lakeland. Will try elsewhere:

Font Line Motor vehicle Parallel Engineering

Here's what's interesting.... the CRATE "motor" is the FRONT GTP drive (Number 2), not the rear GT/GTP drive. The rear drive part number I gave, in the prior posting, has the inverter stack on it -- it's the rear motor ONLY in the Mach-E.

The case is different between front and rear, even though they are rated the same power. The inverter does not mount on either front motor (Number 1 small or Number 2 large)...

Is the same inverter used for both front variants?

Frikkin Alice in Wonderland Rabbit Hole this is 😬

edit: from my travels, DU number 1 is not made by BorgWarner
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,885 Posts
No luck. They all use the idiot-consumer-facing web page now.

You have the front diagram now. You're after the small motor, Number 1 assembly in the diagram:

Font Line Motor vehicle Parallel Engineering


It's smaller, though width may be the same as I think both maybe use the same axles.

The inverter seems mounted elsewhere and has cable running to the front DU.

A good parts counter person can sort this out. I'm busy tomorrow or I'd follow up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
The drive (splines) shafts are integral, so tough to get the length. May need to order one and pay the % restocking fee.
LJ9Z7B012C
I suspect Summit Racing etc offer the $3k drive unit as the rear.


Most of the web sites point to the Rear Drive, suspect the drive unit is configured? Comments please.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
6,431 Posts
Electric Lotus Seven

That is basically what "Duncan's Dubious Device" is
I'm at 800 kg (I overbuilt it a lot) - with about 500 hp

My 14 kWh gives me a comfortable 50 km range at highway speed - and I'm not using the very top or bottom of the charge
the 14 kWh Chevy Volt modules are 133 kg
for 80 miles range - 130 km - you would need about 35 kWh - and 332 kg

That's 200 kg extra - do you really NEED that much range?

I looked at my use and found that 50 km was great for 90% of the time but if I was needing more then I needed at least 150 km

My Device has a Hitach forklift motor - if I was starting again I would probably put a Nissan Leaf unit in the back

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,885 Posts
The drive (splines) shafts are integral, so tough to get the length. May need to order one and pay the % restocking fee.

I suspect Summit Racing etc offer the $3k drive unit as the rear.


Most of the web sites point to the Rear Drive, suspect the drive unit is configured? Comments please.
No. The Summit and Ford Performance Eluminator, as shown in the drawings, is the large front unit found only in the GT Peformance. It has no provision to mount the inverter on it like the actual rear unit. It does have the same motor inside the unit, though, based on specs.

The websites copy & regurgitate. They are wrong about it being the rear unit. It's not.

Look at the Summit unit and the big FRONT unit sketch (Assembly Number 2) from the parts catalog. Identical. No inverter attached.

The rear assembly I gave you the PN and price for you has the inverter mounted on top like a Leaf, Bolt, Prius, etc.

There is one separate inverter for the front that I could find and it has cables that go to the front motor. Probably did not have the headroom to mount it on top.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,885 Posts
Wow, good stuff Dr @remy_martian
Think the good # for the front is Lj9z7b000a
The price in Canuckleland is more like $3k, so well worth the cross-border shopping!
Yup - that's the small unit. $ 2,738.47 plus $500 core charge from Lakeland Ford. Remember that the inverter is a separate unit and priced separately - I gave that info out earlier here.

Can you get the part number and price for the large unit as well? It's only found in the Mustang Mach-E GT Performance model (idiotic amateur hour branding, imo...might as well have named it in German 😂 ).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Crap, I’ve been throwing Canuckle prices on a predominately USA site, subtract 1/3$ From my figures

That's 200 kg extra - do you really NEED that much range?
Likely, as we live in a remote area. The next town is 70km with some good charging by shopping, but that is questionable as you can not book a charging station for a shopping day.

No. The Summit and Ford Performance Eluminator, as shown in the drawings, is the large front unit found only in the GT Peformance. It has no provision to mount the inverter on it like the actual rear unit. It does have the same motor inside the unit, though, based on specs.
I will get dimensions from Ford, it looks to me like the quoted 270hp from Summit and Performance is the rear unit. As I recall the front is 100 or so hp, which again, may not be sufficient for 1000kg. Then again, as I haven’t read Duncans build thread in years. I cant recall where the weight, or added strength to the chassis is from. Maybe it really is mostly battery weight.

Kind Regards
Jim
 
21 - 40 of 94 Posts
Top