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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Rear drive unit LJ9Z7C629A, which has the inverter mounted on it (the inverter does not mount on the crate motor).

$4687.97 at Lakeland. Not sure if there's a core charge.

Still looking for front
$3,8xx USA from Summit
 

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No. There are two front units. The AWD GT is the small DU of 100-ish HP.

The larger DU, which has the same output as the rear can only be found in the GT Performance Model, which car is not in the wild yet that I can tell. That front motor is the crate...the inverter cannot mount integrally on top of it (look at the sketches/drawings at Summit).

The crate was shown at SEMA. She and he both mention "GT Performance powertrain"


It is definitely NOT the rear unit. It is definitely not the small front unit in salvage cars today.

This one sold this morning, RWD:

Wheel Tire Car Land vehicle Vehicle


Shipping's gunna be fun to the UK.

I suspect one of our Lotus 7 people here? 馃槀
 

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$3,8xx USA from Summit
You're not paying attention

Apples and oranges.

The Ford Performance (Summit) "crate motor" unit does not have the integrated inverter on top, which is included on that rear unit Ford part number. (edit: not that the Ford parts rear unit with inverter has a $500 core charge adder to that price, the Ford Performance unit has no core charge).

The Summit unit as shown is the Front LARGE unit only available on the GT Performance car. On the Mach-E forum, it looks like nobody's taken delivery of one yet, so it may not be in the Ford parts catalog, though the parts drawings show it as Drive unit assembly number 2.

The large unit has a not-included cable from the not-included FRONT INVERTER that plugs into it.

It's not clear you can control the rear inverter with whatever inverter hacks will be available for the front inverter from Ford Performance.

I'm also not sure the car that was purchased at auction this morning has enough left of it to sniff CAN codes. Oh well -- the battery is worth the money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
No. There are two front units. The AWD GT is the small DU.
From what I can get from Ford there is only two. Better double check


2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
FRONT,ALL ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,LESS INVERTER,MACH-E, SELECT,New IIHS Test Vehicle,'000,300'Actual Miles
1,000​
A​
2105180
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Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
REAR,ALL ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,MACH-E,SELECT, 'New IIHS Test Veh '300'Actual Miles'
1,000​
A​
2105180
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
FRONT,ALL ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,LESS INVERTER,MACH-E,SELECT, 'New IIHS Test Veh'300'Actual Miles'
1,000​
A​
2105181
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
REAR,ALL ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,LESS INVERTER,MACH-E,SELECT New IIHS Test Car,'300'Actual Miles(ASSEMBLY ADDITIONAL $$$)
1,000​
A​
2105181
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
FRONT,ALL-ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,LESS INVERTER,4DR,MACH-E,SELECT, 'New IIHS Test Veh'240'Actual Miles'
1,000​
A​
210554
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
FRONT,ALL-ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,LESS INVERTER,MACH-E,PREMIUM, 'New IIHS Test Veh'17'Actual Miles'
1,000​
A​
210557
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
REAR,ALL-ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,MACH-E,PREMIUM, 'New IIHS Test Veh'17'Actual Miles'
1,000​
A​
210557
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
REAR,ALL-ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,4DR,MACH-E,SELECT, 'New IIHS Test Veh'240'Actual Miles'
1,000​
A​
210554
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
 

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Crap, I鈥檝e been throwing Canuckle prices on a predominately USA site, subtract 1/3$ From my figures
Just put "CAD" after them - let people do their own conversions, which change in rate with currency markets anyway. There are people in this forum from every inhabited continent; there's no standard currency.

Also, cost of parts is different in different countries, even from the same supplier and after adjusting for currency. Converting the price in Canada from Canadian dollars to US dollars does not result in the price in the U.S.
 

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No. There are two front units. The AWD GT is the small DU of 100-ish HP.

The larger DU, which has the same output as the rear can only be found in the GT Performance Model, which car is not in the wild yet that I can tell. That front motor is the crate...the inverter cannot mount integrally on top of it (look at the sketches/drawings at Summit).

The crate was shown at SEMA. She and he both mention "GT Performance powertrain"


It is definitely NOT the rear unit. It is definitely not the small front unit in salvage cars today.
Excellent catch!

Although it's not obvious why Ford did this, they may have thought that for the crate market a separately mounted inverter would have packaging advantages, or that buyers would use an aftermarket inverter.
 

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There is one separate inverter for the front that I could find and it has cables that go to the front motor. Probably did not have the headroom to mount it on top.
The front of the Mach-E has a subframe which mounts the ancillary bits, such as the charger. The top of that frame may be too low for the inverter to mount on the motor. Also, the non-BorgWarner front motor (as shown in the Munro Live teardown videos) is a Magna unit; if the Magna drive unit was not available with integrally mounted inverter, Ford may have specified a separate inverter for both front units for consistency of packaging.
 

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The headscratcher is that it appears there's only one front inverter for both drives.

So the Magna is severely overrating the inverter (read $$).

A buddy of mine worked for Ford and he said they nitpicked the cost of every bolt and washer.

Why would they use the high powered inverter from a low production run model for their jellybean AWD front motor? Time to market and unit qualification are the only reasons I can think of and that front inverter will be in their gunsights for cost reduction and supply chain reasons, imo.

Speaking of Munro....the electronics-illiterate hypocrite crucified the rear unit inverter construction, yet it's pretty much the same cooling technique used in the Prius (surprise, Denso supplies both), as well denigrating the cooling methods on a motor with a near-solid stator winding fill (including the liquid-liquid heat exchanger, then he leans on the one on the Tesla DU he praised).
 

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Speaking of Munro....the electronics-illiterate hypocrite crucified the rear unit inverter construction, yet it's pretty much the same cooling technique used in the Prius (surprise, Denso supplies both), as well denigrating the cooling methods on a motor with a near-solid stator winding fill (including the liquid-liquid heat exchanger, then he leans on the one on the Tesla DU he praised).
Sandy Munro must be good at something - he has built a consulting business - but it clearly isn't automotive technology. I do appreciate the teardown videos, but the audio is mostly pointless. I recommend these videos to people who want to see details that are not visible from other sources (because reasonable people don't destructively disassemble their vehicles), but not as a source of technical information from the narration.
 

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Ive tried my Ford guy again, he claims there is 5 motors total.
I bet like most companies, costs are where its at. So maybe the F150 Lightning and the larger vehicles get the rear and large front. I need to find a Vin of a GT so I can get the last part numbers
There are clearly not five Mach-E motors, but there are multiple power ratings with the same motors, determined by battery capacity.

The Lightning motors will likely all be different from the Mach-E motors, but one of the BorgWarner Mach-E units does get used in another model... the E-Transit. That's another online parts listing to check... the E-Transit is a 2022 model and has been in test users' hands for a while, but I don't think that regular customer deliveries have started.
 

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There are likely five combos of the three "motors" to look up:

1. RWD with inverter
2. AWD, w front Magna
3. AWD, w front BW
4. "Crate" front BW
5. Maybe RWD/AWD rear without inverter
 

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Ive tried my Ford guy again, he claims there is 5 motors total.
I bet like most companies, costs are where its at. So maybe the F150 Lightning and the larger vehicles get the rear and large front. I need to find a Vin of a GT so I can get the last part numbers
According to the Mach-E forums, the GT Performance are not built yet, so no VIN code yet. Yeah, I went down that rabbit hole as well last night.
 

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The value in what Munro does is he's an IP intermediary. I'd bet he doesn't cite one patent in his reports.

I'd also bet no engineer worth their salt gives a f*ck about his child-level opinion (in electronics they border on asinine, imo) and screw counting...that's why we have internal design reviews before we release any design. Those can be brutal -- you see mild versions of it here from some of us....but it's appreciated input at DR's by designers and is no place for snowflakes. Mistakes are very costly. Omissions can complely miss an opportunity window.

I'd also bet the Chinese eat his stuff up, since there's no trail of crumbs exportwise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
also bet the Chinese eat his stuff up, since there's no trail of crumbs exportwise
Though the Ford offering is cheap, suppose China could still make it cheaper and keep a few CEO鈥檚 well paid.
My parts guy was sure on 5, like you say, probably a combination and controls etc
 

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China being cheap is a myth that flew out the window about 5 years ago.

The BW drives are Hecho en Mexico and are just as inexpensive to make, especially now with sea-shipping gone through the roof and totally constipated in ports like Long Beach - one reason the US is flipping China off now.
 

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Then again, as I haven鈥檛 read Duncans build thread in years. I cant recall where the weight, or added strength to the chassis is from. Maybe it really is mostly battery weight.

Kind Regards
Jim
The battery is 133 kg
The motor is 105 kg
So that is about 240 kg out of 800 kg

The rest is the chassis - the running gear (Subaru) and the bodywork (basic)

I am using the front and rear subframes from the Subaru - not light!

Looking back on it I think I could lose 150 kg
 
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