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Your ugliest pic of the day:

Blue Passive circuit component Circuit component Hardware programmer Electronic engineering


Not only is the large DU deep and high with respect to axle centerline, even without the inverter, "motor" mounts for the crate motor expect two "hockey pucks" mounting to the top of the DU case. As thin as that case is, it may not handle vertical loading anywhere else.

That's what happens to engineering designs when there's no adult supervision.

Don't get me wrong - that chassis metalwork is beauty art.
 

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Your ugliest pic of the day:

View attachment 126149

Not only is the large DU deep and high with respect to axle centerline, even without the inverter, "motor" mounts for the crate motor expect two "hockey pucks" mounting to the top of the DU case. As thin as that case is, it may not handle vertical loading anywhere else.
That actually looks like a very nice fit to a sevenesque design in packaging and structure.

The image appears to have been posted to Facebook by MLe Racecars. Here's another view of their display unit (another of their images cropped down), which puts the drive unit in better context:
Automotive lighting Hood Automotive tire Motor vehicle Bumper

I think the biggest concern in a sevenesque car is the width.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
Agreed, though 20” is probably just enough-barely.
I know my 1960’s Élan’s 1/2 shafts are about 20”
 

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MLe built the electric 1978 Ford pickup that appeared at the last SEMA show - used the guts from the GT Performance, which don't exist yet...

I still don't like the member going over the motor...
 

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I still don't like the member going over the motor...
In isolation, it looks structurally inefficient. In the Mach-E, that crossmember also supports the ancillary equipment (charger, etc) and makes a lot more sense. The same sort of structure is used in the E-Transit, again supporting the ancillary equipment, but in that case there is only the spare tire under it.
 

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It's actually structurally efficient in that it braces the torsion in the frame from the suspension. Just that it may protrude into the trunk for some RWD conversions...

With the Silverado EV announcement, maybe we'll see a Hummer/Silverado crate motor soon?

Eluminator is eating their lunch since SEMA and the Bolt DU ain't cutting the mustard.
 

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With the Silverado EV announcement, maybe we'll see a Hummer/Silverado crate motor soon?

Eluminator is eating their lunch since SEMA and the Bolt DU ain't cutting the mustard.
The Bolt motor is 150 kW; the large Mach-E motor is 200 kW. They both have coaxial transaxles. They're a lot more alike than they are different.
 

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And why wouldn’t most use this method. Seems the obvious evolution to me.
Which method - the coaxial transaxle layout? GM used it in the Spark EV before the Bolt, and it is various other current EVs. The coaxial layout packages well, but spreads the axle outputs far apart so it forces short axle shafts. It works for wide cars in typical use, and even in the relatively narrow Bolt, but it would be less desirable for anything needing a long-travel suspension in a moderate track width.
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
Sure, the coaxial keeps the weight low, and as far as i can tell more of a tight package.
I haven’t played with any of them yet, seeing what you experts figure would be a good start!

Kind Regards
Jim
 

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^^^ Patents is one reason.

Cost may be another.

The Bolt motor is 150 kW; the large Mach-E motor is 200 kW. They both have coaxial transaxles. They're a lot more alike than they are different.
That's an extra 150 amps through the inverter and motor, for starters. While they're just numbers, we stick weld at 110amps on 1/8 steel, lol

My old Trailblazer also uses coaxial axles - through the oil pan, so meh. The Bolt uses helical gear reduction, the BW uses a novel planetary setup that did not impress our man Sandy...the 1700's steam engine geartrain on the Tesla DU had him in love.

Bolt & BW are different beasts entirely and that 60kW power output difference can change many design choices to keep weight and package volume down.
 

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My old Trailblazer also uses coaxial axles - through the oil pan, so meh.
Coaxial with what? In this case, the axle shafts are coaxial with the motor. I don't know how that would apply to the Trailblazer. Yes, one of the Trailblazer's axle shafts goes through the pan - not sure how that is relevant.

The Bolt uses helical gear reduction, the BW uses a novel planetary setup...
Yes, the Bolt's reduction gearing is probably less expensive than the planetary setup, and has the same effect. The planetary system is fine, but not in any way novel; most coaxial units are probably planetary, and even GM's Spark EV (that's the temporary model which was replaced by the Bolt) had planetary reduction. The Mach-E's planetary gearset is a compound design, but that has been common for decades.

Bolt & BW are different beasts entirely and that 60kW power output difference can change many design choices to keep weight and package volume down.
Sure... and in some cases that might make the Bolt the better choice. It's just strange that Ford listed an EV drive unit in the crate motor catalog, with zero technical support and no way to make it work, and somehow that is supposed to make it something more special than every other EV manufacturer's similar drive units which also have no support for non-stock applications. :unsure:
 

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We don't know if there's technical support from Ford...did you ask?

Would be asinine to sell a "crate" unit without documentation - the pinout, for example.

How did MLe build that 1978 F100 truck without tech support?
 

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Sure, the coaxial keeps the weight low, and as far as i can tell more of a tight package.
Other drive units typically (including the Leaf and various Teslas) are just as low as a coaxial unit, because they place the motor at the axle height (just like a coaxial unit), but ahead of or behind the axle line. The coaxial layout is a tighter package, but not lower.

Regardless of whether the mechanical layout has coaxial shafts or not, the inverter and other components may be stacked on top of the motor, beside it, or remotely mounted.
 

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We don't know if there's technical support from Ford...did you ask?
I didn't ask. The Ford Performance web page for the product says "Instruction Sheet: Not Available". One of the crate engines with the same note also says "For FEAD and control pack information, please contact the Ford Performance Techline"... so maybe someone should call the Ford Performance Techline and ask them what is available for the Eluminator; who knows, they might have encoder pinout and schematic, motor winding inductance and rotor inertia so an inverter can be configured, specs for required lubricant and coolant, etc. ("FEAD" is just Front End Accessory Drive).

Would be asinine to sell a "crate" unit without documentation - the pinout, for example.
I agree. That doesn't mean it doesn't occur.

How did MLe build that 1978 F100 truck without tech support?
MLe is not a consumer; it is a company which exhibits at SEMA and attracts press attention. What they get for support is unrelated to what any of us would get. For all I know, they may have done a complete transplant (including the inverters which Ford Performance doesn't offer) in the best of DIY Electric Car fashion with no support at all.
 

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From what I can get from Ford there is only two. Better double check


2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
FRONT,ALL ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,LESS INVERTER,MACH-E, SELECT,New IIHS Test Vehicle,'000,300'Actual Miles
1,000​
A​
2105180
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
REAR,ALL ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,MACH-E,SELECT, 'New IIHS Test Veh '300'Actual Miles'
1,000​
A​
2105180
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
FRONT,ALL ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,LESS INVERTER,MACH-E,SELECT, 'New IIHS Test Veh'300'Actual Miles'
1,000​
A​
2105181
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
REAR,ALL ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,LESS INVERTER,MACH-E,SELECT New IIHS Test Car,'300'Actual Miles(ASSEMBLY ADDITIONAL $$$)
1,000​
A​
2105181
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
FRONT,ALL-ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,LESS INVERTER,4DR,MACH-E,SELECT, 'New IIHS Test Veh'240'Actual Miles'
1,000​
A​
210554
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
FRONT,ALL-ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,LESS INVERTER,MACH-E,PREMIUM, 'New IIHS Test Veh'17'Actual Miles'
1,000​
A​
210557
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
REAR,ALL-ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,MACH-E,PREMIUM, 'New IIHS Test Veh'17'Actual Miles'
1,000​
A​
210557
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
2027​
2021
Engine Assembly
Ford Mustang Mach E
REAR,ALL-ELECTRIC,AT(single spd),AWD,4DR,MACH-E,SELECT, 'New IIHS Test Veh'240'Actual Miles'
1,000​
A​
210554
$3500​
M and M Service and Salvage Yard Inc. USA-VA(Ruckersville) Request_Quote 800-533-4099 / 800-248-6161 Request_Insurance_Quote
Live Chat
I am really curious why all these e-Mustangs have such low mileage at crash time! Are they so irresistibly fast that you just have to go wreck that $50K(US) car as soon as you can?
 

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I am really curious why all these e-Mustangs have such low mileage at crash time! Are they so irresistibly fast that you just have to go wreck that $50K(US) car as soon as you can?
They're new, so all Mach-E's have low mileage. And no, they're not that fast.

But in this case, all of the listings include "New IIHS Test Veh" in the description, which means that this is a batch of cars which were crash-tested by IIHS; of course those have not been used much.
 
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