EPC Controllers.....

DIYguy · 2011-02-09

So.....who knows what about these controllers? :confused: :) http://epc-corporation.com/products.html

PZigouras

· #2 · Feb 9, 2011

I do. Because I work for the company.

- Paul

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PZigouras

· #3 · Feb 9, 2011

P.S. Because I'm the sales person, I can't say anything bad about them.

But I can say plenty of good things about them

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DIYguy

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 9, 2011

OK, this is your opportunity. Tell us why they are good. Try and find something that could be better.

Tell us who is using them. If you have a 2000 amp model, why aren't they in race cars? . . or are they?? hmmm
How much do they cost? What can I tweak? Software accessible? Idle function? Limp home mode? Reverse input? Brake input? programmable outputs? .... c'mon, lets hear about it.

How much current for how long? Water cooling required? Graphs? (u get the idea)...

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Salty9

· #5 · Feb 10, 2011

Web site don't say much do it? Maybe they're in stealth mode.

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PZigouras

· #6 · Feb 10, 2011

The EP-1000 and EP-2000 (both 1000 and 2000 amp respectively) were born as industrial controllers. As a matter of fact, they still are.

They like to live in factories, construction sites, and places where large, DC motors are often found. They look much like any other industrial control… not too fancy, just a regular NEMA 3 enclosure. But, much unlike their cousins from Baldor, Danfoss, Reliance, and Dart, these units were special. They enjoy wet/damp locations where most standard industrial controllers will not go. They were also designed to be simple, plug-and-play, modular units. This made their cousins mad. Very mad.

Instead of complex programming and buttons to control motor speed, these units set up in less than 5 minutes, have only 6 wires, and use a simple rotary knob for speed control. There are no harnesses, diagnostics, touch screens, or anything else that could possibly go wrong in these harsh environments. You can literally set up a factory with 100 DC motors and 100 of these units, and have it all up and running in one day.

Oh, and here’s the kicker… they run on 12 volts DC, unlike their cousins from Baldor, Danfoss, Reliance, and Dart, which require an outlet to plug them into.

Okay, now back to the story. Then, one day, a deranged (and possibly drunk) EV owner who recently had a “Logisystems-related” EV car fire decided that he was going shove one of these massive controllers into his car. Well, I guess that was kind of like the day that kid with the open peanut butter container bumped into the kid who was holding a Hershey’s Bar, and got peanut butter all over his chocolate. They came up with a new product, but I forget what they called it...

Anyways, that’s the story, and I’ll try to upload some data about it tomorrow for you guys to sift through. A lot of these units are private-label branded, so we normally don’t publish the specs and pricing online… and if we do, they are usually very general.

Again, these units were never designed to be used in EV’s… but it just happens that they work perfectly in them. I know this first hand, because after a few insane people did it, my curiosity got the best of me… and I did it too. That said, I would not jump off a bridge if they did. I think.

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DIYguy

Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 10, 2011 (Edited)

PZigouras said:
Anyways, that’s the story, and I’ll try to upload some data about it tomorrow for you guys to sift through. A lot of these units are private-label branded, so we normally don’t publish the specs and pricing online… and if we do, they are usually very general.

Again, these units were never designed to be used in EV’s… but it just happens that they work perfectly in them. I know this first hand, because after a few insane people did it, my curiosity got the best of me… and I did it too. That said, I would not jump off a bridge if they did. I think.

OK, so if you want to sell them, you need to show some data. Not being programmable in any way??? is not a good thing for EV'ers. How about this basic need.... In my case, can I connect it to my 210 volt battery and limit the voltage to my DC series motor to, say...160 or so? Or could I put a limit on how much current I draw from my battery to protect it from.... "me"? lol

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PZigouras

· #8 · Feb 10, 2011

Again, we're really not targeting the EV market, so I doubt we will be adding any more EV-related features to the units (at least not internally -- external modules are available for certain features). The industry demand for large DC motor controllers is so high right now, we can barely keep up production as is.

Neither controller has a voltage limiter, mostly because these industrial motors run at regular line voltages. You can, however, limit the % of duty cycle, which effectively limits the current (and motor speed).

In your case, I would not worry about burning out this controller... I would worry more about cooking the motor. These controllers contain 4 and 8 massive IGBT's, respectively... to blow the EP-1000, you would have to pull over 4 x 800A continuously for over 5 seconds, and for the EP-2000, 8 x 800A.

I will see if I can get a list of add-ons that we make.... some may help if anyone wants to install one.

- Paul

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DIYguy

Discussion Starter · #9 · Feb 10, 2011

PZigouras said:
In your case, I would not worry about burning out this controller... I would worry more about cooking the motor. These controllers contain 4 and 8 massive IGBT's, respectively... to blow the EP-1000, you would have to pull over 4 x 800A continuously for over 5 seconds, and for the EP-2000, 8 x 800A.

I will see if I can get a list of add-ons that we make.... some may help if anyone wants to install one.

- Paul

I wasn't referring to burning the controller, I was referring first to the motor, then to the battery. Any good controller, should protect itself from harm.

Yes, sure, show whatever you have.

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EVfun

· #10 · Feb 10, 2011

PZigouras said:
In your case, I would not worry about burning out this controller... I would worry more about cooking the motor. These controllers contain 4 and 8 massive IGBT's, respectively... to blow the EP-1000, you would have to pull over 4 x 800A continuously for over 5 seconds, and for the EP-2000, 8 x 800A.

I will see if I can get a list of add-ons that we make.... some may help if anyone wants to install one.

Something like 6000 amps for 5 seconds to failure? If there is some way to get past the 2000 amp designated limit there may be some race teams interested! Knowing what add-on modules are available would be appreciated.

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Ziggythewiz

· #11 · Feb 10, 2011

So what's it take to get a simple price quote for an EP-1000?

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PZigouras

· #12 · Feb 10, 2011

I'm making a list of all the add-on modules that are currently available; I will upload it shortly. Meanwhile, here are the specs for the EP-1000. On request, the specs can change slightly when we re-brand them for a reseller, but the generic ones we manufacture are all the same.

Nominal Voltage: 24v to 350v
Nominal AMPS: 1000
Capacitor Bank: 12,400 mF
Physical Size: (about) 13 x 12 x 6.5 inches
Will explode violently at: as soon as you hit 3200 amps
Auto Current Limiting: None
Buss Bars: Solid Aluminum

The EP-2000 has pretty much the same specs, but is about 1.5 inches wider. It also has solid copper buss bars instead. Big ones. I'm not completely sure what the explosion amp rating is, because I've never seen one blow up before. One of our customers did blow one up when he stalled a large DC motor. I'm not sure what the draw was, but the motor weighed 11,500 pounds and slightly larger than my car.

Keep in mind that BOTH units are 100% manual control with no automatic safeties. Your foot controls all the power all the time... it will not cut back the power under any circumstances. You can weld with it, if you'd like. Great for electrocuting people, too.

You CAN limit power and acceleraton by limiting the pulse width of the unit... for example, you can set it to 40% if you have a puny 6.7-inch ADC motor (as I had in my car for a while). You can also change it in real time from inside the car with an optional module.

- Paul

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DIYguy

Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 10, 2011

PZigouras said:
Neither controller has a voltage limiter, mostly because these industrial motors run at regular line voltages.

- Paul

You're talking AC voltages here? How is it that an industrial controller is designed for DC input? Most industries run from three phase typically 480 volts in USA and 600 volts in Canada.

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PZigouras

· #14 · Feb 10, 2011

Ziggythewiz said:
So what's it take to get a simple price quote for an EP-1000?

Although we only sell new units through our resellers, you can call and order refurbished units directly from us. It is also possible to open up a reseller account, which will allow you to buy new units.

And when you call, try to be as rude, belligerent, offensive, and disrespectful as possible when they give you the price. That way, you may be able to get it for close to wholesale.

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PZigouras

· #15 · Feb 10, 2011

DIYguy said:
You're talking AC voltages here? How is it that an industrial controller is designed for DC input? Most industries run from three phase typically 480 volts in USA and 600 volts in Canada.

For factories, we include the optional AC Module which is basically a big box with big rectifiers and a DC 12V supply in it. But don't tell them that, because we charge them a lot of money for it.

- Paul

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PZigouras

· #16 · Feb 10, 2011

Ziggythewiz said:
So what's it take to get a simple price quote for an EP-1000?

Oh, forgot about the price quote. Dah!

The MSRP depends on the reseller... we recommended $2000, and most of our resellers keep in in that range.

There are also a lot of stolen ones available on the streets. They have different color boxes and labeling depending on what company we make them for, but the're the same thing. If you know someone who works in a factory with DC motors....well....

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J

JRoque

· #17 · Feb 10, 2011

Hello Paul, you're one of a kind sales person for sure. I'm cracking up here reading your posts on how the controllers are also excellent for electrocutions... good one. And thanks for letting us know you have refurbs available. If new is $2k, refurbished ones might have a good price.

What about temperature derating? Being a beast as you describe, does it require any kind of special cooling to deliver the spec'd power? A temp/power chart would be nice, if you have it.

Could it be that those 4 x IGBTs are there in an H bridge so you can throw the motor in reverse (and do regen)? If that's so, the amp rating is not exactly x 4

JR

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EVfun

· #18 · Feb 10, 2011

JRoque said:
Hello Paul, you're one of a kind sales person for sure. I'm cracking up here reading your posts on how the controllers are also excellent for electrocutions... good one. And thanks for letting us know you have refurbs available. If new is $2k, refurbished ones might have a good price.

...and I thought this was the funny line...

PZigouras said:
And when you call, try to be as rude, belligerent, offensive, and disrespectful as possible when they give you the price. That way, you may be able to get it for close to wholesale.

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coryrc

· #19 · Feb 11, 2011

PZigouras said:
Will explode violently at: as soon as you hit 3200 amps
Auto Current Limiting: None
<snip>
One of our customers did blow one up when he stalled a large DC motor.

This is... unacceptable. I hope you aren't offering a warranty.

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G

· #20 · Feb 11, 2011

It actually sounds a bit fishy to me. The Site is not complete for a company that sells to the industry. The other products they say they sell are not accessible on the site and no real information. The sounds of the sales person sound like the site. Weak and sounds too good to be true. If these DC controllers were on the market I am quite sure this and other DIY electric car forums would have latched onto these long ago. From what I have read here is that there is really no product but a way to part you from your money.

This is way too good to be true. You really need to be carful. Sharks abound. Be carful. Research better before falling for the hype. Some thing like this if true could have all the bells and whistles put in for next to nothing. Plenty of smart computer people here.

I'd say its bull.

Prove me wrong.

Pete

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