[zippy500]

Came across this on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Complete-Electric-Car-Conversion-Kit-Highway-Capable-Under-2-000/362075730110?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=45992&meid=4444ef01cf414aee8940b8758079fa3a&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=292229612715&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

apparently it "this motor puts out 77HP Peak and 30HP Continuous."

Seems almost too good to be true, surly this wont move a 1000kg car will it???

 

[Tomdb]

http://www.motenergy.com/mepmwaco.html

Looks legit, but who knows it does 96V and 250amps so 24Kw

 

[Jayls5]

I recognized that type of model designation, and sure enough it was Motenergy when I checked.

Looks like they updated their product line-up with a new water cooled motor:

http://www.motenergy.com/mepmwaco.html

I wish they had a datasheet because I noticed something that should be noteworthy... they have an air-cooled version:

http://www.motenergy.com/mepmbrmo.html

In the description of the website, it claims continuous current of 200A and continuous power of 17 kw. However, if you click on the datasheet below, it says 116A rated and 7.5 kw. Datasheet:

http://ep.yimg.com/ty/cdn/yhst-129399866319704/ME1507.pdf

Not sure why there's such a huge discrepancy on that air-cooled model.

I would not be confident using that motor on a full size car for continuous highway speeds. It might get you there, but I skeptical about the continuous power handling.

 

[Pessoa]

Hello, Andre here, from Brasil. I bought the kit. Is legit, heavy and yes the manufacturer description is wrong.

Here some info:

BRUSHLESS DESIGN = 0 maintenance.

POWER: Output Power of 20 kW Continuous, 55 kW Peak

Features

Quieter Operation
Improved durability
High 92% Efficiency
Smoother acceleration
Low cogging
Low torque ripple at low speed
NEW Water cooled stators
NEW 3/8" Cooling ports
NEW Sine/cosine speed sensor
NEW Anodized aluminum

Specifications

- 5 pole motor
- Maximum recommended rotor speed: 6000 RPM
- Voltage: 48 to 120 VDC input to the control
- Torque constant of 0.15 Nm per Amp
- Armature Inertia: 45 Kg Cm Squared
- Current: 250 Amps AC continuous
- Peak current: 550 Amps AC for 1 minute
- Weight: 48 pounds
- Peak Stall Torque: 134 Nm.
- Cooling: Water cooled (50% Glycol)
- Includes temperature sensor""


The vendor is awesome. Gonna start my project soon.

 

[MalcolmB]

Hi Pessoa,

It's good to hear from someone who is actually using this motor. I've been looking for more information about the motor recently as it looks like it might work well with my car.

Did you buy it from the ebay vendor, and have you actually run it on the road yet?

My main concern is with choosing the right controller. Kelly controllers have a bit of a reputation for not delivering the power they promise, and the alternative (and more expensive) Sevcon controllers are difficult/expensive to program.

 

[Pessoa]

Hello, Well, I didn't test yet. And I confess that I was skeptical about it, studied a few days and realised the opportunity could end.

The motors numbers don't lie, everyone is not sure because is cheaper and smaller
Being brushless and at the same time water-cooled makes it compact. Motenergy wants to go further with this one.
Yes I got from the ebay add above.

If Kelly doesn't deliver I'LL try Curtis.

This is and add for the motor only:
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/me1616-brushless-65hp-liquid-cooled-pmac-motor-24-120v.html

Not eBay dough

 

[dcb]

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/me1616-brushless-65hp-liquid-cooled-pmac-motor-24-120v.html

"5 pole motor"

good luck.

 

[MalcolmB]

dcb - It would be helpful if you could explain for the benefit of non-electrical engineers (like me) why a five-pole motor is a problem.

 

[dcb]

magnets come in pole pairs (a north pole and a south pole), so that the number of poles is a multiple of two. So it isn't a good sign when a seller or manufacturer describes it as a 5 pole.

 

[MalcolmB]

Could it mean 5 "pole pairs" (since it's described as having low cogging)?

 

[dcb]

Could it mean 5 "pole pairs" (since it's described as having low cogging)?

It is the responsibility of the manufacturer/supplier to supply accurate information. When they do not do that the end user is left misinformed and/or speculating. I don't know where the peak performance data came from for that matter as there is barely any info on the motenergy site, and other important details are missing from the sales site (like cooling requirements).

http://www.motenergy.com/mepmwaco.html

good luck, would like to see how it holds up, but for a fraction of that price one can do a lot better.

 

[MalcolmB]

I don't know where the peak performance data came from for that matter as there is barely any info on the motenergy site, and other important details are missing from the sales site (like cooling requirements).

I agree. I'd also be very interested in any cheaper AC alternatives with similar dimensions.

 

[dcb]

Sorry for the wall of text, well small motors don't make much torque, so their power comes from rpm, which means possibly additional gear reduction stages (which takes up space) and you need a good amount of space for an affordable battery that can support, say 100 hp, for repeated bursts, plus you need more cells to get the voltage up to support more current at higher rpms, even if the cells have the current capability.

I don't know what this motor is capable of, or what it is being designed for here, but "Complete Electric Car Conversion Kit/Highway Capable" sounds like a stretch, with no data to support those claims.

I know if I had dyno'd it I would sure as hell would share a graph with motor voltage/current, battery current/voltage, shaft torque/rpm and case temp, both continuous and peak, at different voltages, not just make promises.

Wouldn't you? I don't think they tested it properly, or even got their story straight.

i.e. lets assume your battery has whatever voltage it needs to supply 550 amps (82nm) at 6000 rpm to the motor, that adds up to 70hp. 82nm (60 ftlbs) is weaksauce though without significant gearing, "ok" for a motorcycle with a 5:1 ratio (300 pounds of thrust, 85mph peak).

So the kelly is 96v @ 600 amps, but the motor is only 550 peak, so at best it is 70hp. Plus the motor is listed as 50kw @120v so there is an "impedance mismatch", it might do 100hp at 144v&550a for all we know (does curtis do a PM controller for 144v/550a, or only induction?)

Pessoa, can you spin the motor at, say 1000 rpm (or a known rpm) and report the ac phase to phase voltage and rpm (no electrical load)? Also can you measure phase to phase resistance, and inductance if possible?

 

[Pessoa]

Yes, I will test it thoroughly
But I can't right now. For sure I will inform whatever I can.

After my purchase, I contacted motenergy and was promptly answered that clients/companies have their own tests and are confidential ?

Furthermore they make custom orders, this particular one is 96v and 240/250amp(not sure now) continuous

The cooling recommend is 50/50 water/glicol 6 LPM

I really understand you guys, but the ebay vendor has been outstanding, with all questions I have, with unprecedented support. He will go an extra mile for us, "diy EV's"

I know it could be more info there.
I will help with whatever I can, all of you.

 

[dcb]

I really understand you guys, but the ebay vendor has been outstanding, with all questions I have, with unprecedented support. He will go an extra mile for us, "diy EV's"

That remains for us to see. Does he have any more detailed testing info and motor specifications? Do we know if 96v is battery voltage or rms voltage? What rpm would you see 70hp at? Does it do any field weakening?

I mean until it is validated, everything he says "cough5polecough" could be crap.

controller docs
http://kellycontroller.com/kls96601-8080ips24v-96v600asinusoidal-bldc-motor-controller-p-1386.html
8080ips 96v/600a

 

[major]

That remains for us to see. Does he have any more detailed testing info and motor specifications? Do we know if 96v is battery voltage or rms voltage? What rpm would you see 70hp at? Does it do any field weakening?

I mean until it is validated, everything he says "cough5polecough" could be crap.

controller docs
http://kellycontroller.com/kls96601-8080ips24v-96v600asinusoidal-bldc-motor-controller-p-1386.html
8080ips 96v/600a

Feature #22 on the controller: Supports motors with any number of poles.

And what's the deal putting a fuse on the controller positive input terminal? Like it's going to protect the controller? The main fuse needs to be in the battery compartment. So a input controller fuse is redundant. Looks like a 32V slow blow anyway.

And that meter shunt on the negative input looks like a real piece of precision; not.

Kelly continues to amaze me; as in a negative way.

major

 

[Pessoa]

Anyways, proven technology is a luxury I can't afford.
I got this for the money in first place
and what I'm allowed to import to my beloved crappy country

A Japanese guy once told me that Toyota has better cars than Honda.
When I asked witch one he had, he said a Honda. Why? Because Toyota only uses proven technology but Honda is all ways playing with new stuff.

I guess I'm a Honda guy, even knowing that I wish a Jimny EV a 1060kg Suzuki.

By the way, vendor just said 10 poles and I'm sorry about the info passed before.
I just copy/pasted from that link.

I Accept your "good luck" in my heart, I'll need it.

I guess, you will have to wait for someone to make it become a Toyota.

 

[dcb]

meh, would rather get the questions answered than the analogy. I'm a used toyota guy these days was a used honda guy and every other make imaginable at some point.
The more you analyze it the less luck you will need

 

[electro wrks]

And what's the deal putting a fuse on the controller positive input terminal? Like it's going to protect the controller? The main fuse needs to be in the battery compartment. So a input controller fuse is redundant. Looks like a 32V slow blow anyway.

Curtis and Sevcon have similar provisions for a fuse on some of their controllers. Maybe it's a safety requirement in some places and/or uses.

 

[kevinjclancy]

I have looked hard at this ME1616 - have a 900 lb Honda city convertible that I need a motor for. It really annoys me that the only way I will ever know if this motor has any chance of working in my car is to spend tons of money and time to do it myself. - more than the money I can not fase the humiliation and wasted time if my car ends up with a top speed of 45 mile an hour.