EV conversion from PHEV ?

3631 Views 15 Replies 9 Participants Last post by David.., 2 mo ago

rb1957

Discussion Starter · Mar 26, 2022

Apologies if this has been asked and answered but it seems to me that it should be "easy" to convert a PHEV to a full EV. I mean you have all the EV systems there, "just" need a larger battery, maybe an updated charging system, maybe thermal management, etc? Remove the gas tank (space for battery), maybe leave the gas engine if married to the electric motor (yes, dead weight, but is it more expensive to change out ??).

I'm in Canada, zero mechanical ability, would be looking for a shop or enthusiast for this.

Have an A3 etron to work on.

cheers

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

brian_

· #2 · Mar 26, 2022

It would make no sense to leave the engine if it is no longer operable - that's a lot of weight, and a lot of space.

In the A3 e-tron (and the related Golf GTE and Passat GTE) the electric motor is integrated into the 6-speed automatic transmission, so you would be stuck keeping the weight and complexity of that transmission.

This vehicle has one of the smallest batteries among PHEVs (8.8 kWh), so the range with only the battery is very short; a Chevrolet Volt or Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV could be usable without the engine and with only the original battery, but the A3 e-tron would need much more battery.

PHEVs are uncommon and expensive enough that they seem like poor targets for conversion to a less functional type of vehicle, although I suppose it might make sense if the engine died and was too expensive to fix or replace.

Reactions: 1

pixelpusher54

· #3 · Mar 26, 2022

I was thinking about this very thing as well. I have a Ford CMAX Energi that pulls itself down the road quite well down the road when running on battery only.

remy_martian

· #4 · Mar 26, 2022

Cmax electric range 20 miles, which you want to extend the range of.

Chevy Volt electric range 40 miles

You bought the wrong car if you can't run it electric only >90% of the time

Jordan325ic

· #5 · Mar 27, 2022

Short answer, no. The problem with this lies in the software. Hybrid vehicles have extremely complex system controls in place in order for the engine and electric motor to work seamlessly. The Chevy Volt famously boasted 10 million lines of code. The hardware is theoretically there, and batteries could theoretically be put in parallel for double the range, but in practice there is no way could you get it to run without ripping out all the OEM controls and building an entire control system from scratch or doing major hacking. You won't find a shop willing to tackle that. It would be easier to convert a straight ICE car, or easier still just buy an EV.

Reactions: 2

lj516

· #6 · Mar 28, 2022

Come on guys, can we please try to buy only new ev's here at elonfanclub.com....
Any hybrid with old nickel cells is easy to upgrade to Lithium
Any plug in hybrid or hybrid with an "EV" mode is moderately easy to upgrade to a "plug in"
Converting of a hybrid to ev or any combination of hybrid is still easier than starting with an ice.
Yes there will be code involved but the needs must be identified before anything is written and we are coming upon the days of ai engines capable of helping with some of the worst parts of coding

remy_martian

· #7 · Mar 28, 2022

Actually, it's not at all easy to convert nickel to lithium - that's what Elon told us to say 🤦‍♂️

Nickel has a much higher charge and discharge rate, so no, it's not plug and play at all unless you're up for getting things all flamey real fast.

AI is artificial idiocy. A scheme to bilk stupid Vulture Capitalists out of their money, or even dumber money to provide VC with a lucrative exit. No AI on the planet is going to reach into your $4000 hybrid beater, decompile the code of each and every module in the car, have an owner without even the ability to create a PowerPoint to describe what they want describe the problem and constraints to the AI, then flash code into the car. What you might wind up with is porn on the control screen and not much more.

The reality here is economics. $6/gallon has everybody scrambling to go fully electric, versus pay an extra $600 a year for gas. Don't know about you, but my consulting fee over a decade ago was $350 an hour, so how much of an engineer's time is a person with zero technical clue willing to pay in?

The reality here is economics.

And, yes, go buy a new Tesla...but only if you promise to total it within a month.

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Reactions: 1

piotrsko

· #8 · Mar 28, 2022

You can parallel Volt packs, or at least for the years I have done it as a 48s12p pack Still awaiting the nuclear fire that was proposed to occur. Now I dont run the BMS but it is a cell module system and wouldn't care how it's connected

10 million line of code? Back in my day, that was considered obscenely wasteful and proof positive you don't know how and should be fired.

Jordan325ic

· #9 · Mar 28, 2022

piotrsko said:
You can parallel Volt packs, or at least for the years I have done it as a 48s12p pack Still awaiting the nuclear fire that was proposed to occur. Now I dont run the BMS but it is a cell module system and wouldn't care how it's connected

10 million line of code? Back in my day, that was considered obscenely wasteful and proof positive you don't know how and should be fired.

But are you running that parallel volt pack in a Volt?? Of course there are many PHEV parts that are great for EV conversions, but OP was asking about converting a PHEV to full EV as an easy option. It’s not.

And I agree with you there. I’m not sure it’s true, but that number is repeated everywhere and GM seemed proud of it for some reason.

rmay635703

· #10 · Mar 28, 2022

remy_martian said:
Actually, it's not at all easy to convert nickel to lithium - that's what Elon told us to say 🤦‍♂️

Nickel has a much higher charge and discharge rate, so no, it's not plug and play at all unless you're up for getting things all flamey real fast.

AI is artificial idiocy. A scheme to bilk stupid Vulture Capitalists out of their money, or even dumber money to provide VC with a lucrative exit. No AI on the planet is going to reach into your $4000 hybrid beater, decompile the code of each and every module in the car, have an owner without even the ability to create a PowerPoint to describe what they want describe the problem and constraints to the AI, then flash code into the car. What you might wind up with is porn on the control screen and not much more.

The reality here is economics. $6/gallon has everybody scrambling to go fully electric, versus pay an extra $600 a year for gas. Don't know about you, but my consulting fee over a decade ago was $350 an hour, so how much of an engineer's time is a person with zero technical clue willing to pay in?

The reality here is economics.

And, yes, go buy a new Tesla...but only if you promise to total it within a month.

The venerable 2001-2015 Prius has a small drop in lithium pack available

The chemistry was carefully chosen to work with the Prius and not the other way around

remy_martian

· #11 · Mar 28, 2022

Cool. What's the Toyota part number?

lj516

· #12 · Mar 29, 2022

rmay635703 said:
The chemistry was carefully chosen to work with the Prius and not the other way around

The cells are nothing "special", 5Ah 20-30c discharge rate, same cells in the ford cmax hybrid and honda hybrids. The chemistry doesn't matter one bit, some have used lead acid in a prius to extend range back in the day. The only thing that matters is falling between the min and max voltage ranges, but fooling the oem bms does require certain steps to keep things running correctly.

rmay635703

· #13 · Mar 29, 2022

remy_martian said:
Cool. What's the Toyota part number?

Toyota only offers the lithium pack in Euro zone for Gen 3 and you need a core.

in the aftermarket
Toyota hybrid battery upgrade pack

No Additional bms, software or modifications required, drop in and use

remy_martian

· #14 · Mar 29, 2022

"
All Nexcell batteries include a 2 Year Manufacturers Defect Warranty from the date of purchase, unlimited miles.

WARRANTY TERMS AND CONDITION
• Warranty is a guarantee against manufacturer defects.
• Powering high voltage inverter straight from battery pack will void warranty, NO EXCEPTIONS."

Two year warranty vs 8-10 years for OEM lithium packs. Because you whack current in and out of the pack in a hybrid. Note, the warranty is on defects, not use.

No direct inverter connection means you can't use the pack as a BEV.

piotrsko

· #15 · Mar 30, 2022 (Edited)

Hmm no kwh ratings just a "trust me it's better" comment. So im not sure if a case and some bms cells are worth $2100, but I haven't needed to buy a pack in a long while

Change of topic:
Afaics, one could presumably parallel the volt packs at the data entry point of the case and have two bms systems fully functional but I'm not sure the warning system would tolerate the address ranges. The hardware wouldn't care one iota and charging would be tedious. Otoh if youre shoving 2 volt packs into an EV, you have to have other pressing issues. I am also pretty sure you can split a volt pack like I did but once again the warning and drive systems won't work. The hardware still doesn't care

David..

· #16 · 2 mo ago (Edited)

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