[mpobor]

hi everybody i will try to follow your guideline for this post.. i really hope to interact with your community to understand better what i'm planning to do.

writing from EU.

Your skill level with auto mechanics and fabrication:
very good with mechanic and ice.. almost zero with EV.

The range you are hoping to get (how many miles/charge) 200miles going veeeery smooth

What level of performance you are hoping to get: the equivalent of 300 to 400hp

How much money you are willing to put into your project from 7k to 10k (without cost for registration.. don't know if i will go to UK or Netherlsnd or Germany yet or have a consultant here in Italy to figure it out.).

What parts you've already considered, if any:
NISSAN LEAF MOTOR
Chevy volt 1gen 2 whole pack (14kwh each: total 28kwh ish)

The car will be completely gutted from anything.. and the most of the body part replace with carbon fiber (trying to get as light as possible), for anything related with bodypart and engine mount i have good contact and the cost are not included with my budget.

i was interested to the nissan leaf motor compared to the most powerfull tesla engine just because it looks like cheaper as OEM... couple of people on the web look like they hacked the inverter and get lots of power out of the leaf engine.. so to keep the cost down i'm contacting them to understand the cost involved in a "tuned" inverted and controller for the leaf,

i would like to ask you if somebody know if the nissan leaf will run with the 2 modules from the chevy volt.
and despite i imagine that i'm missing the cost and the complexity to get from 80hp to 300\400hp the leaf engine, somebody know if it will be possible to LEV 3 charging the chevy volt?

for me getting the leaf to 300\400hp fed with the 2 pack of the volt properly connected would be fantastic... should give me the power and the range i need but i'm waiting for your comment. (i understood that the chevy pack and discharge lots of amps for a few second like in the teslonda)

thanks to everybody.

 

[Roderick]

here are a few equations you should get used to when estimating EV conversion.

・Range(mile) = PackSize(kw) / efficiency(wh/mile) x80%
the 80% is there to ensure you wont be using 100SOC of the cells
・efficiency(wh/mile) = Weight(lb) /10


Power =(mass x 9.81 x velocity x Crr) + (0.6465 x Cd x Area x V^3)
this will give you how much power required to go at specific speed you have in mind

Crr = Rolling resistance
Cd = Drag of your car

Area =Frontal Area in m^2


Given all these info, 28kwh will only be good to 70miles with extremely aerodynamic car.
Leaf motor will not be able to give you the Hp you want.
(1hp = 746w of power, therefore in theory you need 298.4kw rated motor...)


I think you need alot of reading before you can start spending your money!!

 

[mpobor]

here are a few equations you should get used to when estimating EV conversion.

・Range(mile) = PackSize(kw) / efficiency(wh/mile) x80%
the 80% is there to ensure you wont be using 100SOC of the cells
・efficiency(wh/mile) = Weight(lb) /10


Power =(mass x 9.81 x velocity x Crr) + (0.6465 x Cd x Area x V^3)
this will give you how much power required to go at specific speed you have in mind

Crr = Rolling resistance
Cd = Drag of your car

Area =Frontal Area in m^2


Given all these info, 28kwh will only be good to 70miles with extremely aerodynamic car.
Leaf motor will not be able to give you the Hp you want.
(1hp = 746w of power, therefore in theory you need 298.4kw rated motor...)


I think you need alot of reading before you can start spending your money!!

Indeed you are right! the thing is as many people that know nothing about ev and electronic just look up on the internet and make silly calculation on range and power refering and youtube videos... so not so reliable.

nissan engine sell for roughly 800dollars\1k compared to teslas 5k to 8k...
but looking always on youtube\google i found a couple of guy that took the leaf up to 200\300kw on power... just what i would love to have.. and this is where my mind went. don't know more than that from know.. i kind of guess that you push a 80hp engine to 300hp it would be unreliable... as for ICE engine basically.

for the range 200miles yes you got to be right.. too much for the real world for 28kwh... but the car will be just bone with nothing inside and most of the panel carbon fiber..

anyway.. i will hold my money untill i have the real picture in front of me.

thanks for your reply

 

[mpobor]

hi!

i have an other question,

is it possible to use in a project different type of battery?
like for example mixing the leaf pack and the volt pack?

i mean combine together and connected to the same engine and charger.

thanks!

 

[Roderick]

Quick answer I believe is No.

I have no knowledge of both cells but if they have different capacity(Ah) or a characteristics than they will not work
it's like wearing two different shoe on each feet. At first, you feel like it can work but eventually you will feel unbalanced and eventually one will wear out faster than the other...

 

[mpobor]

Quick answer I believe is No.

I have no knowledge of both cells but if they have different capacity(Ah) or a characteristics than they will not work
it's like wearing two different shoe on each feet. At first, you feel like it can work but eventually you will feel unbalanced and eventually one will wear out faster than the other...

that is way nobody never did that! i got it... my thought was just because volt and leaf are the most common used battery you can find at an "affordable" price... so when i was thinking about my project 14+14 of the volt plus a 24 from the leaf... it start to be an amount of kwh good for a mid range ev...

 

[oudevolvo]

When I did my feasibility study for my EV conversion I learned there are three parameters:
- Fast
- Far
- Affordable
You can pick two

So in my view 200miles + 300 to 400hp and costs 7k to 10k is not very likely if you want it to be reliable, registrable and drivable.

Do you already have a car in mind to convert?

 

[mpobor]

When I did my feasibility study for my EV conversion I learned there are three parameters:
- Fast
- Far
- Affordable
You can pick two

So in my view 200miles + 300 to 400hp and costs 7k to 10k is not very likely if you want it to be reliable, registrable and drivable.

Do you already have a car in mind to convert?

you are perfectly right.. i like those 3 caracteristics where you can actually pick just 2.

alfa romeo 156 giugiaro.. simply because i bought one years ago and i sold it and regret it.. i love the design.. the chassis is mean to be great to drive.

i'm just concern about the registration process.. i hope it will be doable.

for my daily drive i'm fine as i'm i run a 2cyl natural gas fiat that is quick and cheap to run like no other (non including ev) it would be ok for me with this whole life..

i want something special.. something that is a joy to ride... finding out how electric motor run with that tourque and power it looks superior at any ice... 300\400hp from a tuned leaf with be far more than enough for what i really desire...

battery remains the issue.. with a full 85kwh from a tesla stacked on the floor of the car, in the middle (like the volt) and few on the thrunk... car remain balance... plenty of range.. all europe is sstarting to get chademo... looks like i can make also big trip with this beauty.... but teslas battery looks like a dream for me.. too expensive...

volt battery are so cheap (and so heavy compared to teslas) 28kwh is enough to go from a chademo to an other and will be also possible to make trips not only commute..

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

i'm just concern about the registration process.. i hope it will be doable.

In The Netherlands you can only use EMC certified parts which do not exist for most components removed from wrecks. The UK does not have this restriction. I''m not sure about Germany.

 

[mpobor]

In The Netherlands you can only use EMC certified parts which do not exist for most components removed from wrecks. The UK does not have this restriction. I''m not sure about Germany.

i wrote to Damien the guy who used a tesla engine and a chevy volt battery in a bmw 7series... as far as i know is located in Ireland and i send an email to him, maybe he know something on the registration..

UK is very open minded.. but i don't know what happen after they leave the EU if i spend money doing the conversion there and then can't get a registration in my country

 

[mpobor]

i would love to do one last consideration about my project.

i was doing some math on kurb weight and range... i'm quite sure that weight affect range.. but i have no idea the degree of this and the finale result in term of range..

chevrolet volt... 16kwh battery, limited usable 10kwh, kurb weight 3800lbs... heavy i would say...

let take my "project car" kurb weight from original 2700lbs... let's stripping out everything... leave AC and fron seat (lightened seats), plus removed ICE +tank and everything related, and all the panel in carbon fiber, talking about roof, arches, bonnet, trunk, bumper, doors!!!!... 380 lbs engine, i don't want to exagerate but... 600lbs is something that can be achieved..
2700 minus 1000..
1700 rolling chassis.. + nissan engine is 273lbs + 1MODULE 435 = 2400 lbs!

on the range considering a full 16kwh usable battery, and the weight dropping from 3800 to 2400... how the range can be affected? considering just the "harmfull" full discarge of the whole 16kw is 56... and what about the weight reduction? how much will affect range?
considering great battery temperature control, lightest foot, only regen break, no hills, no hard accelleration.. costant speed 50\60mph

thank you all!! i really appreciated!!

 

[Duncan]

OK
I'm using most of a Volt battery - 14 Kwh
My range is about 40 Km in a vehicle that weighs 800kg

 

[oudevolvo]

Myself I found the EV Designer spreadsheet developed by Jonathan Peace very helpful to play around with the relevant parameters and manage my expectations on range.

 

[mpobor]

OK
I'm using most of a Volt battery - 14 Kwh
My range is about 40 Km in a vehicle that weighs 800kg

hi Duncan!!

40km? 14kwh for just 40km? it sound too much kwh! why do you have this range?
on the internet lots of customer of volt car claim to get at worse senario 30 MILES! most of them an easy 37miles\40 meaning 65km (easy... some of them 45\48 but driving very slow).. with just 10kwh and a car that weight more the three times yours!

how can this be possible?

 

[mpobor]

Myself I found the EV Designer spreadsheet developed by Jonathan Peace very helpful to play around with the relevant parameters and manage my expectations on range.

amazing spredsheet!!! i'm having a look right now!!

 

[mpobor]

Myself I found the EV Designer spreadsheet developed by Jonathan Peace very helpful to play around with the relevant parameters and manage my expectations on range.

how can i change parameters?

 

[prensel]

In The Netherlands you can only use EMC certified parts which do not exist for most components removed from wrecks. The UK does not have this restriction. I''m not sure about Germany.

Remember that any LOCALLY approved EV without a valid EU registration is not perse registerable in any other EU country,
Meaning getting your car approved in the UK or Germany doesnt help you when registering in NL. They simply wont approve it without an EMC document.

There is another way to do it in the NL when using donor-vehicle parts.

 

[oudevolvo]

how can i change parameters?

You can / need to populate/modify the cells with the white background on the 'Performance' tab. And the most right tab has some tips and notes.

 

[mpobor]

You can / need to populate/modify the cells with the white background on the 'Performance' tab. And the most right tab has some tips and notes.

it doesn't make me do it.. but i ask permission to the owner!!

 

[oudevolvo]

it doesn't make me do it.. but i ask permission to the owner!!

On his Google drive it's read only. You need to create a copy onto your own Google drive or download it as an Excel file for offline use.