[Woodsmith]

Thread title changed from EVan-Tricycle as the project now has four wheels.

This thread is a continuation from my earlier Trike thread which can be found here: LINK.
The direction of the build project changed somewhat due to personal circumstances and so it seemed sensible to split the thread and make it easier to follow.


I am going to revisit this project as I have a lot of parts and I want to build something that will be (legislation allowing) a road vehicle.

On that basis I am not placing any strict long term goals but just experimenting with an idea.
The original concept was for a vehicle to do a 35mile (possibly 70mile round trip) commute but, with the job gone and my ailing health making it unlikely I will ever choose to work outside of the local area, I can relax the requirements and change the concept to suit.

The requirement is a vehicle that will be good for a couple or three miles on 40mph busy roads, with the same again in stop start urban traffic, and have an overall 15-20 mile range (for round trips) with gentle driving.
I will also need to be able to carry my tools and some construction materials to jobs, or a craft stall and stock for Arch and her craft items to go to local markets and craft fairs.

I got the impetus from Todd's Ice Cream Van, now the PackRat project and looking at old vans like this.

The idea would be to look at a forward control (cab over) version to give maximum load area.

I had played around ideas with both three and four wheel versions, including looking at using a Citroen 2CV rolling chassis.

It would be ideal, front motor, front wheel drive, flat clear load area, except that they are getting expensive, rusty, and the brakes and load capacity are tiny. However, a big wheeled 'Beryl' would be perfect.

This is 'Beryl'.

I also would like to use the parts I have, where possible to save money, and that means the MGB front axle assembly.
It has the advantage that the steering rack is ahead of the axle and so easier to rotate the column forwards to put the steering wheel ahead of the axle line.

I am going to work up some sketches around placing a two seat cab (similar to 'Beryl's') placed over the axle, with the wheels under the seat box and foot well ahead of the wheels.
Behind the cab will be a battery pack in the floor with a covered cargo compartment above.

If I go with a trike layout then the existing rear motor and swing arm will be used. However, if I happen across an MGB rear axle cheaply then I can put the motor on the front axle cross-member and have a drive shaft to the rear axle. I think if direct drive was good enough in the original plans then it may still work now, but there is the option of adding a transmission in the middle.

The plan is to use one of the 72v controllers I have been gifted and some 'pre-loved' lead acid batteries to get it mobile and legal (fingers crossed) and then look at how much performance it gives to determine how much more I will need to get the performance and range I want.

Stage one will be to mock up the cab over the front axle and leave the rest of the chassis vague as that part is going to be variable depending on pack, wheel arrangement and load space needs.

This will, as always, progress slowly as I am about to be busy demolishing and rebuilding a bathroom for my folks, and also building my marital bedroom suite.


So, when I get a chance for a breather I will do some measured sketches and see if this works and warrants its own thread.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Thank you both.

It is good to be back on the projects. It has been too long since I was last able to think about doing more then one easy thing at a time.

I still have to cut down an axle for the tractor too, but that also includes redesigning the whole transmission for it.
Maybe the old, slightly out of balance 12" motor might get a look in there. More torque available, less transmission needed I think!

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

I took some time out from other stuff today and reassembled the MGB front axle assembly. It all looks good so far. I have ignored the seals and bushes and so on as they will be changed at a later date.

The steering rack currently points towards the back of the car and I will need to rotate it so that it points forward. That should be straight forward if I cut off the rack mounts and make new ones that are in the right orientation.

The standard bolt pattern to mount the cross-member to the chassis rails are angled so it is narrower at the front then the rear, I am pondering changing those to make them parallel. That will make it easier to build the chassis to fit.

 

[Woodsmith]

EVan-Tricycle

Photos!

This is the standard configuration on full lock.

The steering rack mounts like this (seen from the other side).

If I rotate the rack over so the column points forward I get this.

The rack mounts will then be above the rack, probably under the chassis legs (seen from the other side).

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

That sounds an easy solution, Todd.

I was working on how to use the standard MGB tapered bolts that usually mount the cross-member.

I guess no reason not to use other bolts instead. Or even to weld the cross-member to the chassis.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

I don't think he's reversing the crossmember - he'll just be sitting on top of it, rather than behind it, so he's rotating the rack "on its mounts", so to speak, to get the steering wheel ahead of the wheels. There shouldn't be any changes in Ackerman, or any of the geometry.

Did I get it right Woodster?

Spot on.

Instead of sitting 2' behind the front wheels I am moving the seating to on top of the wheels. The requires the steering column to be about 3-4' ahead of the axle. So by rotating the rack the column points forward where I will mate it to a right angle gear box to then direct it upwards towards the steering wheel.

It will all become clear when I can mock up the seating and steering wheel.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

This is the noticeboard sketch I made one night when I couldn't sleep.

It shows the steering column brought forwards, the battery pack low on the floor between the axles, an enclosed load area above the pack, and a flat pickup bed over the top. There will be a tow hitch at the rear.

This sketch is assuming the reverse trike layout using the same motor and swing arm I had made up before, and the same bridging structure over the top of the rear wheel to the tow hitch.

If I find an MGB axle then I will go with a conventional four wheeler layout at the rear.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Hi Woody

How much space do you need? - why not build it a la Lotus 7 and use a trailer when required?

I think it would make a more "fun" car

Fun is often different things to different people, I have an electric tractor that is huge fun and 'burns rubber'.

Seriously though, it isn't so much about the 'fun' aspect, more the local work vehicle for when I am actively going out to work again. The construction and joinery jobs I am willing to do will be within 10 miles away and mostly via urban roads.

Ideally I would want to be able to carry a few 8'x4' boards and timbers up to 12' long, along with two tool boxes and some power tools. If possible I would want a 1 ton payload but would be happy with around 1000-1500lbs. I also want to be able to tow a trailer as well, for extra capacity. (I think I will need at least a couple of gears in the transmission.)

I will be mostly using it for fetching and carrying and so the cargo aspect is paramount. I can cycle the non cargo journeys, or use one of my cycle trailers for small cargo trips, and the diesel car for longer range when needed.

However, the people at Arch's work also think I have a love affair going on with Beryl, their Bradshaw FB2!
They may not be that far from the truth...

I have thought about the Axiam Mega van but it is really too light and too slow, I think it was designed to come in under quadricycle regulations whereas I am aiming for IVA and full motor vehicle status. The dealer is only a couple of miles away from me though so I keep an eye on second hand vehicles.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Woody, you basically redrawn your true love!

Shhhh, Arch reads this forum you know!

Woodys wishes are leaning towards the milk float/tuk-tuk + trailer. Why not? Low performance, fun and a full machine to convert for several hundreds of £'s. Or at least a format that is easily made using a simple chassis and wood. The windscreen requirements in law are fraught with issues so I'd go for something that has it sorted.

That's it really, simple and dirt cheap, but with the styling in the execution.

The windscreen is the place to start though. I am looking at various options and the best thing for size and shape seems to be rear screens.
A Land Rover Discovery rear glass would be about the size and shape, with a useful deeper section in front of the driver. Maybe even get hold of a complete door as it has the wiper motor and surround. The bottom half could be cut off and changed to form the cab front and include headlights.

The glass would also include the heater element for demisting but I am not sure if it would be allowed due to the element being visible.


Otherwise and MGB tailgate screen, without heater, would also be a good size.

Ideally I would like to find a rear screen that is cheap, and common, and comes with and without heater. That way I can try and get it IVA accepted with the heater, but if not I can get the plain one and add a demister blower.

It has to be the starting point though, along with Land Rover Series3 door tops to make the side windows simple.

I do still have the all singing, all dancing, fully electric everything doors from the MR2!
The best thing about them is the auto electric folding electric mirrors and self closing windows when the door is locked.
Don't know if my pack would have enough power to run them though, never mind them being half my payload weight capacity.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Ahh well, we used to have toughened glass, back in the day (feels old now!)

Still, the split screen idea is good. I could use Land Rover Series screens (E and kite marked), swapped left to right so that the slightly angled edges make the windscreen into a slight chevron shape.

Alternatively 2CV windscreen might be small enough.

I would prefer curved glass as it just looks nicer.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

I know my place....

Now I'm in trouble....

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

I agree about the windscreen matey.
There are plenty of local firms who can make your hearts desire but it might cost. Maybe think of a small car off a scrappie?

http://www.specialistglass.co.uk/index.html

http://www.guardianglass.co.uk/industry/contact

https://www.topclasscarpentry.com/c... Metric Casement Windows - Laminated Glass/3/

http://www.cylex-uk.co.uk/manchester/laminated glass.html

I'd love the idea of a single top hinged flat plate screen though. Would be brill on those hot days.

It would have to be a car windscreen. That would make it easy to replace and it would have all the kite marks, E marks, and type approval that would be required. Ordinary laminated, or tempered, glass isn't be allowed any more AFAIK from the kitcar forums.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

I found this!

It is a Trivan.
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2011/02/01/the-trivan-re-revisited/

Not very pretty though.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Thanks Epyon.
It is good to be feeling able to get on with a project again. I just have all those other outstanding jobs to get on with too.

I will also have to be earning an income too (can't wait to be able to do that properly again) hence the change in the trike plan. It will need to be a project that earns its keep and not just a fun play thing.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet!

Not pretty is good, I feel less threatened...

Agree 100%

No, seriously, it's good to see Woody tinkering again, even if some of the technicalities go over my head a bit.

Agree 1000% - this place isn't the same without Woody's magic!

Thank you both.

Though I am busy with 'other stuff' I did get to sneak down into the workshop today to see about parts to make up the right angle gearbox for the steering column.
I found a couple of the diff gears from the tractor's exploded diff. The side and spider gear will give a 14/22 ratio taking the MGB steering from 3 turns lock to lock to 4.7 turns lock to lock. That will make the steering lighter and slower turning given the all the weight (I know I need to loose some) over the front wheels.



I am having fun with drive gear ratios too.

If I use the original motor and swing arm chain drive set up (17t and 43t) I had then I get direct drive with 29.4mph per 1000rpm with the big 25" rear wheel.

If I move the motor to the front and have a propshaft drive to the BMW final drive bevel box, and then the chain to the rear wheel I get 10.1mph per 1000rpm with the same chain sprockets.

If I then change the small sprocket for one of, say, 25t then I get 14.9mph per 1000rpm. More useful then either the two above.

If I use a MGB rear axle with the 21" front wheel size then I get 16.0mph per 1000rpm.

I can't use the smaller wheels on the swing arm as I don't think they fit over the brake assembly.

I still don't know how fast I can risk spinning that 11" motor though. 3000rpm? 4000rpm?

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

I'm thinkin' C-Cab,,, like Henry used to build

Like this?

I'm thinking more Steyr Haflinger.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

I was playing with the idea of having a backbone chassis, housing the motor and battery pack, so that I could adapt the rear to take any sort of cargo. Demountable flat bed and side pods sprung to mind.

However, it would appear that someone has built an ICE powered version of the layout I am thinking of.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Delivery trucks are cool, in their own way.

I'm now thinking of keeping the 80+mph gearing, just cos I can!

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

This afternoon, after bricking up my folk's bathroom window (don't ask), I decided to clear and tidy the workshop.

I can just about get enough room in there to lay out the trike again and get an idea of the scale and layout I'd like.

There is a good possibility of having a 24" wide 12" high backbone chassis, at the back of which the 11" motor will hang and the swing arm will pivot. The chassis is then only around 60" long from the front axle to the motor mounting point and will be the battery space. That would comfortably fit 12 used Optima Red Tops (initially for 72V but later for 144V), an accessory battery and the controller.

Extending the 'flatbed' over the rear wheel will give me 8' of load bed from the back of the cabin if I can push the cabin as far forward as possible. 7' is easier but I can always allow a bit of load overhang if it came to it.


The main things I need to sort out now is a front windscreen (or a suitable cabin from a small vehicle) and a means of getting the steeing column in the right place without resorting to cutting and welding. That will determine the front layout.

 

[Woodsmith]

Re: I want to build a trike!

I have been in the workshop measuring and mocking up with bits of metal and wood to see how things 'sit'.

I then drew a measured sketch of the side elevation to see if it all works out. So far so good. I can get the rear 'body' to 2350mm x 650mm at 750mm off the ground. There is also space for the covered load area above the batteries and space for side 'panniers' for extra capacity if needed.

The cab seems to lend itself nicely to using a pair of Land Rover Series 3 doors, with a cut away for the wheel arch. I can either narrow a Land Rover truck cab down to 1100mm wide, or I can build the rest of the cab in wood. The windscreen is still an unknown so the cab will be made to fit what I can get.

The steering is still a bit complicated but maybe I can use three UJs to get the column where I want it. I will have the lower part of the column as a divider between my feet, but I think I can cope with that. I am still working on the 'right foot for GO, left foot for STOP' pedal arrangement.

The motor will cantilever off the end of the chassis on the four mounting bolts and it will be geared for 88mph at 3000rpm.