[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Hip, hip, hooray!!!

I'm glad me being inspired by you, can help inspire you! The Ice Cream Truck is going to be designed and built by my next round of crazy "kids", but supervised by me. I might make this thread and watching you mandatory reading.

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Photos!...

I was just about to ask...

Looks like that will work nicely. Those frame mounts are pretty sturdy. You could go with straight frame rails and just extend a mount off the side of the rail for the rear mount. One dead center, one in a little outrigger mount.

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Hi Woodsmith,
Are you planning to widen the cross member? Reversing the cross member and rack position without rejigging the steering geometry will give you toe in on turn instead of toe out. Sort of a reverse Ackerman steering geometry. Either the rack needs to be narrower or the cross member wider to accommodate the changes that are needed to the steering arms to correct the steering geometry.

I don't think he's reversing the crossmember - he'll just be sitting on top of it, rather than behind it, so he's rotating the rack "on its mounts", so to speak, to get the steering wheel ahead of the wheels. There shouldn't be any changes in Ackerman, or any of the geometry.

Did I get it right Woodster?

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

...the best thing for size and shape seems to be rear screens...

I don't know your laws but I don't think a rear "windscreen" would be legal in front, in the US. The front is made with laminated plain glass, while the rear is usually a single piece of tempered safety glass. The reasons it would be frowned upon in front are the thousands of tiny glass fragments that would explode in your face, upon impact. Even though the glass actually fractures into shards, the laminated glass is proven to take one heckuva hit and keep them mostly in place.

I've shattered tempered glass by simply putting too much pressure on it in the cold, trying to get a side window back on track; but have personally seen deep head impressions in laminated windshields, that most of the glass fragments were still intact.

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet!...

Agree 100%

...it's good to see Woody tinkering again...

Agree 1000% - this place isn't the same without Woody's magic!

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

...However, it would appear that someone has built an ICE powered version of the layout I am thinking of...

I have never been too crazy about reverse trikes, but that thing is soooo freakin cool!! The motorcycle should look really dumb stuffed on the back of a truck cab but it doesn't - it looks almost normal/right somehow?!?!

Keep it up and I'm going to steal the Inhaler Project's delivery van!

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Me like! My vote is for wood...

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

People often pester me about how long my projects take to become reality, but sometimes a great idea needs time to age and mature, and it just gets better with time.

Such is the case with your trike project Woody - this is so uniquely "Woody", so sweet, and so much fun to see happening!

...The seller had a Staffie puppy that was so excited to have a visitor that it 'leaked' over my left boot while hopping about for attention!...

Maybe he was Christening the builder of the ship, in a sign of approval!

I love that V-dub gearbox - makes me want to build something just to use one, lol!

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

After the makeshift seat fell off the bit of wood on the tool box and the upside down wobbly jack and hit me on the head...

Sounds like something I would do!


I love it Woody! That first pic really brings it to life!

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

...Woody has realised that due to my short stature, if I want to drive it, he may have to complicate the driving position with some adjustability. Either that, or he'll extend my legs....

Extending your legs might be the easier option, I'd just need to weld extensions on somewhere....

Too funny! Building from scratch is quite an adventure, and gives one new respect for all the things mass manufacturers have to encompass in a single vehicle for broad acceptance/good sales. The Inhaler Project's Ice Cream Truck project is being designed with a "live" 1/4-scale model, and one of the first steps I had the Team do was create 1/4-scale "stick" people, that are 6' and 5'6" tall - to make sure a range of people could actually fit in, and drive, the thing.

This came from seeing Schism materialize. I designed it around the Model T body - scaling an entire vehicle to match the dimensions of the original bucket body. The result is a vehicle that I can barely fit in, at 5'4"/125lbs!!! I was having so much fun with pure design that I completely forgot about people, including myself!

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

...In the meantime I bought a cheap steering bevel box to get the steering column in the right place...

...and also reverses the steering!...

I think this bit information has transformed and freed the front of my car - see my thread this evening for details...

One of the reasons I share so much info, and enjoy reading about and seeing what others are doing, is you never know what will help someone else. Thanks Woodster!

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

You want reverse steering on your car!

I guess it would make an interesting anti-theft device!

I want to reverse the steering that I plan to reverse.

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

...Maybe I have to take inspiration from Todd and run a jackshaft!

I love the idea on Schism (have yet to get beyond the mock-up). It totally transformed the front of the car, making the whole drivetrain come together, and making it look badazz. I was kicking against the pricks up to that point, as nothing really worked, functionally or aesthetically.

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

I have been picturing the jackshaft as a long shaft taking the drive from one end of the motor to the other end, resulting in the motor DE facing to the other side of the trike to the final drive chain.
It would require two sprockets, splined or keyed to a shaft that is able to handle the torque. this could be a little costly and require more accurate engineering.


However, I could also get two pilot bore sprockets...

...I can then line them up on a setting up shaft and bolt them together using the boss for chain clearance. The bore can then be machined out for a pair of bearings and then the set up fitted to a fixed shaft at the DE of the motor.
Easier and simpler and the motor faces the same way.

I'll do a drawing another time as I am not at home.

That makes a lot of sense, if I'm "seeing" correctly. Should make for a nice, neat, little setup.

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

I had one of those 'couldn't sleep at night' thoughts about the gearing.

The compound sprockets is the simplest solution, but in the wrong place. It gets in the way of having the motor out on its own and uncluttered.

The solution is to incorporate the compound sprockets into the swing arm.
If I use 10 and 20 tooth sprockets bolted together and placed with bearings on a sliding axle midway along the swing arm then adjusting the eccentric tensioner in the wheel hub will tension both runs of chain.

One chain guard would cover the chain run and render it mostly inconspicuous.
It would also be a good point at which to adjust gearing to suit once the trike is running.

I will need to rebuild the swing arm to fit it in properly but I think I can do a better job of the swing arm at the same time.

Awesome Woody!

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Ditto what Malcom said, and I would add that, depending on how much you intend to use the trike, you have to keep wear in mind with a 12T sprocket. It will probably wear the chain more, but it's something to keep in mind as you can't just pop a new sprocket on it.

I would go for it personally. Replacement shouldn't be needed very often, and it should be too difficult to cut the TIG welds on a lathe.

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

...Have a look at this inside shot of the BMW K100 gearbox.
It has an input shaft, two main shafts with dog clutches on both, and a selector cam stack.

Will it run upside down? I am thinking of swapping the breather and the sump plug and inverting the box. The photos are deliberately ambiguous to solicit opinion as to whether I can get away with it or not....

Looks like it will still pick up fluid and sling it around fine. Plus, you're only going to be spinning it (input) at 3K - I think it would live.

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

I did a bit of measuring and did a quick measured sketch.

I figured I can just about fit all the motor and trans inside a 12" square back bone. That lead me to drawing in 12" square section battery boxes on each side with cut outs for the swing arm bearings and the gear selector. the tail end of the battery boxes may be tapered down towards the swing arm to 'tie' them in a bit.

I figured that I could run on 72V if my top speed is that low and I have gears to play with and the battery boxes will have plenty of room for decent 6v or 12v cells and lots of insulation. I am hoping they will 'hang' on the outside of the chassis like truck fuel tanks.

The chassis will be divided along the length to isolate the long propshaft and to give room for the service battery, charger, controller, etc.

I am wondering if I can make it out of large radius folded sheet steel with internal bracing and bulkheads. Maybe a complete 'closed tank look' with access hatches for the bits inside.
Otherwise four lengths of round tube with sheet welded in the sides and base.

Now, I'm getting confused between our trike projects! I first looked at the sketch and thought where is he going to sit?! Then, I remembered where the cab is, and realized I was trying to sit you in my kart seat!

Regarding the PM, I think Arch's advise is sound, and this truck plan is super cool - it just feels like "Woody". PackRat actually wouldn't be a trike, it would still be a delivery if I didn't have two other projects to balance...

I like the folded sheet idea - isn't that how the low-cost cars are built?

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

Looking at Todd's trike, and how the frame rails extend past the outsides of the rear wheel axles, I decided to have a look at mine to see how that would look. Not going to do it as I would not be able to remove the wheel and it would completely alter the single sided swing arm look.

In the process it occurred to me that now I don't have a big motor at the back the swing arm pivots don't need to be so far apart. In my earlier sketch, above, I placed the joints on either side of the chassis with the FD unit in between set to the left.
However, without the motor it also means I can move both pivots to the right of the FD and bring them closer together reducing the width of the swing arm.

It will increase the forces on the pivots due to lateral loading on the rear wheel. I am using M20 rose joints, they are big! The chassis in that area can be 'big' too!

Seriously though. If the pivot is strong enough like that then it does simplify the build and layout .

I forgot to reply, but left the tab open to remind myself. I like it - neat and tidy. It definitely looks "designed", like it was meant to be/always was that way.

 

[toddshotrods]

Re: I want to build a trike!

...Anyway, Another option on the pivot is to not use the two M20 rose joints but to use a Land Rover stub axle bolted to the centre line of the chassis frame. The swing arm can then have a pair of Land Rover wheel bearings fitted into a machined tubular hub. That will allow proper taper rollers and grease seals to be used and also any free play can be taken up.

Fitting and removing the swing arm, for maintenance, will be easy too.

I reckon a Land Rover hub will be plenty strong enough to support the lateral loads from the swing arm.

I like that better. I love the big "rose joints" as you call them , but I think you'll get a much more rigid swingarm with the tapered bearings. Nothing beats a solid, tight, feeling vehicle going down the road.