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[EVDL] $10K 100 Mile EV

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Here's a challenging thought experiment to think outside the box.

Scenario: The year is 2050, you're in a post-apocalyptic wasteland
formerly known as Las Vegas. You must get 100 miles to the next town to
save the lives of everyone in that town who's in danger of dying of
dehydration. They have 24hours to live in the blistering desert heat,
and you must bring them life saving water. The ONLY way to travel is by
an EV that you build yourself. Money still exists (somehow) and you only
have $10K in your pocket with no hope of outside financial help. No
vehicles exist in the town you are in., but there is a store that
carries EVERY part to build an EV from scratch.

Could you build an EV with a 100 mile range with $10K?


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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
On 24 Sep 2010 at 16:20, Eric wrote:

> Can you build an EV with a 100 mile range from the ground up with $10K?
>

I don't think I could, but I'll bet Lee Hart, Jerry Dycus, and/or Bob Rice
can. Heck, I'll bet they could do it for $1000. Maybe even $100, if you
give them enough time for some serious scrounging.

Throw some input from Otmar Ebenhoech or Bob Schneeveis into the mix and
you'd have a work of art in the bargain. ;-)

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Heck Eric, you are the one in the box.
Here it is 2010, Start with a readilly available chevy S-10,
preferably, about ten years old with good tires, In Central Florida near
Disney World they sell for $900 running. Sell the running motor for $500,
the fuel tank and pump for $300, the catalytic converter for $100 as pure
scrap, the exhaust pipe and muffler as aluminumized steel for $5.00, the
Radiator for $25, Buy the kit of 8 inch motor, and mount, transmission
adapter, controller and wires, and connectors and crimper,And that whole kit
is $7,500 (at Greenshed) Batteries.as a set of two banks at 50 miles each of
wet lead acid GC batteries for $2,500 (at Sam's Club) so there is the $10K
EV, just do it yourself! And it fits right in the box. If you don't like our
box then ride a unicycle and we can all have a good laugh.(;<))

Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM *(Adviser)* EVTI-EVA Education Chapter*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
It=92s estimated that the existing U.S. electrical grid has sufficient
capacity
to fully fuel three-quarters of the nation=92s 217 million passenger
vehicles.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Eric <[email protected]> wrote:

> Here's a challenging thought experiment to think outside the box.
>
> Scenario: The year is 2050, you're in a post-apocalyptic wasteland
> formerly known as Las Vegas. You must get 100 miles to the next town to
> save the lives of everyone in that town who's in danger of dying of
> dehydration. They have 24hours to live in the blistering desert heat,
> and you must bring them life saving water. The ONLY way to travel is by
> an EV that you build yourself. Money still exists (somehow) and you only
> have $10K in your pocket with no hope of outside financial help. No
> vehicles exist in the town you are in., but there is a store that
> carries EVERY part to build an EV from scratch.
>
> Could you build an EV with a 100 mile range with $10K?
> _______________________________________________
>
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Hi David, Eric and All,

Now Eric has simplified his goal it's rather
easy.

A stock golf cart with the batteries wired
parallel into 18-24vdc pack with high pressure car tires.
Clubcar did it with their stock set up though I bet with
street tires.

A bicycle with E motor pulling 24vdc of golf
cart batts in a trailer.

A MC with 8 60lb batts.

A rolling truck or VW Bug frame with 72v of GC
batts.

Secret is keeping it light, speeds 15-25 mph
to keep air drag down and high pressure in the tires. All
well under $10k. With simple aero bodies they could do it at
40-50 mph except the bicycle.

I have a CG transaxle with a moped front end,
VW Rabbit rear tires that with 8 GC batts would do it I
drive most every day with 4 used 12v batts cost me $150 to
build. I'm slowly building an Aero cabin MC that can do it
at 50-60mph for about $800 in parts, mostly used of course.

As long as building from scratch using common
used stuff, it's really easy to do cheap.

Jerry Dycus


----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] $10K 100 Mile EV
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 21:44:57 -0400

>On 24 Sep 2010 at 16:20, Eric wrote:
>
>> Can you build an EV with a 100 mile range from the ground
>> up with $10K?
>
>I don't think I could, but I'll bet Lee Hart, Jerry Dycus,
>and/or Bob Rice can. Heck, I'll bet they could do it for
>$1000. Maybe even $100, if you give them enough time for
>some serious scrounging.
>
>Throw some input from Otmar Ebenhoech or Bob Schneeveis
>into the mix and you'd have a work of art in the bargain.
>;-)
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>EVDL Administrator
>
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
>reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
>email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
How about you drive till the flooded batteries are so dead you can
drink the water from them .. a wagon train of batteries each one on a
skate board all hooked together pulled by a starter motor powered by
a wheel hooked to a fly wheel ( fly wheel from same car as starter
motor) with inflation that's what you'll get for your 10k . Now how
about a writer that writes something before the end of 2010 that
really helps promote EV's ,, ya I know there none out there , that can
do that , would take some out of the box thinker to get one to do it
. How would he do this , ? What would he say Have you ever noticed
how bad most writers are at getting the facts straight when it comes
to EV.s . When I think about it , I don't think I've ever seen
anything wrote by a non EVer about EV's that didn't have some miss
information.

short range Ev's do poorly on long trips
long range EV;s can't even do short trips with out being plugged in
from time to time .
Its a fact , filling a EV with gas is more dangers than charging the
battery in a gas car .

My old Mazda 2000 lawn truck with 40 golf cart batteries would do 100
miles ,, most of the time it just charged the e mower 10 time a day
and drove 30 miles . You can have it for 10K
Steve Clunn

--
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
As a mostly-lurker on this list, I have to pipe up and say that it has
been fascinating watching people respond to this--it's been a real study
in watching people read a "spec".

First of all, most (but not all) made the assumption that a significant
amount of water had to be taken to the town. But the spec didn't
actually say that *anyone* was in danger of dying of dehydration! To
wit:

"You must get 100 miles to the next town to save the lives of everyone
in that town who's in danger of dying of dehydration."

Second, many ran afoul of the constraint "no vehicles exist in the town
you are in". True, "vehicle" was not defined so it wasn't clear to me if
there was a non-running chassis I could scavenge or not.

Third, many (seemed) to forget the "24 hour rule" that covered not only
the building of the vehicle but of getting the water to the town (if you
made the assumption that at least one person needed some water).

It was also not clear just what constituted a "part" that existed in
this hypothetical EV store. Would it have, for instance, a steerable,
rolling chassis with operable brakes that I could buy? Or would I have
to start with tube steel and fab a chassis, steering, etc. from scratch?
Hardly anyone sought to clarify that point and just started "building".

As a data point, the fastest street-legal auto conversion I've heard
about (that I recall) is the one Otmar did in a weekend. Based on
various TV programs like Junkyard Wars, I'd have to say unless we're
talking about a bike with ready-to-assemble EV parts, I doubt anyone
could build an EV and cover the 100 miles in 24 hours. I'm willing to be
wrong about this, however.

But it has been fun reading the responses!

--Steve


Eric wrote:
> Leslie, You're in charge of WASP (Water Access Security Patrol), and
> maintaining the "Stinging" electric fence to keep the bad guys out. ;)
>
> Eric
>
> On 9/25/2010 9:33 AM, Leslie wrote:
> > Rather then think of how to get all that water to the next town - why
> > not build a big ass EV bus that can do 200 miles, then go to the next
> > town, pick up the ppl and return to where the water is.
> >
> > Alternatively, use all the things that are available to build an EV, and
> > instead build an electric fence around the water and stay put. If it is
> > post apocalyptic, then it is every man for them self, and securing water
> > is one of the first things that should be done ;)
> >
> > Leslie
> >
> >
> > On 24/09/2010 3:51 PM, Eric wrote:
> >
> >> Here's a challenging thought experiment to think outside the box.
> >>
> >> Scenario: The year is 2050, you're in a post-apocalyptic wasteland
> >> formerly known as Las Vegas. You must get 100 miles to the next town to
> >> save the lives of everyone in that town who's in danger of dying of
> >> dehydration. They have 24hours to live in the blistering desert heat,
> >> and you must bring them life saving water. The ONLY way to travel is by
> >> an EV that you build yourself. Money still exists (somehow) and you only
> >> have $10K in your pocket with no hope of outside financial help. No
> >> vehicles exist in the town you are in., but there is a store that
> >> carries EVERY part to build an EV from scratch.
> >>
> >> Could you build an EV with a 100 mile range with $10K?
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> >> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> >> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> >> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> >
> >
>
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Hi Steve, Good points... I noticed that people just assumed there were
other vehicles to scavenge from. But I specifically stated that No
vehicles exist in the town. Yet plenty of people stated things about
golf carts, fork lifts, rail cars, buses, and converting other
"vehicles" that do not exist in this hypothetical town. The thought
experiment is designed to provoke thought which should have forced
people to think differently in building the vehicle. It had a rather
interesting effect though. People started questioning the "rules" and
"definitions" of the word vehicle itself. I attribute this to and blame
lawyers... ;)

Perhaps we should reconstruct the scenario to transport 1 human being
(you) to the town.

It would have been simpler to propose that YOU are the human in the
middle of a "barren" desert with $10K in your pocket. The only
civilization near you is an EV parts store with every conceivable "part"
for every vehicle ever made (it's a big store). We'll also assume, since
I didn't mention this before, that you also have a garage and all the
tools you would ever need to build this vehicle. (which surprisingly no
one mentioned before)

The challenge would be for "YOU" to get "YOU" out of the barren desert
and to the safety of a town 100 miles away.

To clarify:
1. Cargo:1 human driver (you)
2. No other vehicles exist (none, nada, zero)
3. You have 1 bottle of water (24 hours: survival time in 120 degree
desert heat)

I know this completely changes (reverses) the dynamics of the scenario
to an EV built to carry 1 human driver and 1 bottle of water to the
safety of a town 100 miles away within 24 hours.

Now build the "vehicle"... ;)

Regards,
Eric


On 9/25/2010 10:06 AM, Steve Peterson wrote:
> As a mostly-lurker on this list, I have to pipe up and say that it has
> been fascinating watching people respond to this--it's been a real study
> in watching people read a "spec".
>
> First of all, most (but not all) made the assumption that a significant
> amount of water had to be taken to the town. But the spec didn't
> actually say that *anyone* was in danger of dying of dehydration! To
> wit:
>
> "You must get 100 miles to the next town to save the lives of everyone
> in that town who's in danger of dying of dehydration."
>
> Second, many ran afoul of the constraint "no vehicles exist in the town
> you are in". True, "vehicle" was not defined so it wasn't clear to me if
> there was a non-running chassis I could scavenge or not.
>
> Third, many (seemed) to forget the "24 hour rule" that covered not only
> the building of the vehicle but of getting the water to the town (if you
> made the assumption that at least one person needed some water).
>
> It was also not clear just what constituted a "part" that existed in
> this hypothetical EV store. Would it have, for instance, a steerable,
> rolling chassis with operable brakes that I could buy? Or would I have
> to start with tube steel and fab a chassis, steering, etc. from scratch?
> Hardly anyone sought to clarify that point and just started "building".
>
> As a data point, the fastest street-legal auto conversion I've heard
> about (that I recall) is the one Otmar did in a weekend. Based on
> various TV programs like Junkyard Wars, I'd have to say unless we're
> talking about a bike with ready-to-assemble EV parts, I doubt anyone
> could build an EV and cover the 100 miles in 24 hours. I'm willing to be
> wrong about this, however.
>
> But it has been fun reading the responses!
>
> --Steve
>
>
>
Eric wrote:
>
>> Leslie, You're in charge of WASP (Water Access Security Patrol), and
>> maintaining the "Stinging" electric fence to keep the bad guys out. ;)
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On 9/25/2010 9:33 AM, Leslie wrote:
>>
>>> Rather then think of how to get all that water to the next town - why
>>> not build a big ass EV bus that can do 200 miles, then go to the next
>>> town, pick up the ppl and return to where the water is.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, use all the things that are available to build an EV, and
>>> instead build an electric fence around the water and stay put. If it is
>>> post apocalyptic, then it is every man for them self, and securing water
>>> is one of the first things that should be done ;)
>>>
>>> Leslie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24/09/2010 3:51 PM, Eric wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Here's a challenging thought experiment to think outside the box.
>>>>
>>>> Scenario: The year is 2050, you're in a post-apocalyptic wasteland
>>>> formerly known as Las Vegas. You must get 100 miles to the next town to
>>>> save the lives of everyone in that town who's in danger of dying of
>>>> dehydration. They have 24hours to live in the blistering desert heat,
>>>> and you must bring them life saving water. The ONLY way to travel is by
>>>> an EV that you build yourself. Money still exists (somehow) and you only
>>>> have $10K in your pocket with no hope of outside financial help. No
>>>> vehicles exist in the town you are in., but there is a store that
>>>> carries EVERY part to build an EV from scratch.
>>>>
>>>> Could you build an EV with a 100 mile range with $10K?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>>>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>>>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
>

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Nope,
Does not change my proposal to weld a bicycle frame together,
assemble it with typical e-Bike parts, which means:
put in some hub motors, 100Ah pack and controller and go,
preferably through the night so don't forget the *electric*
headlights ;-)

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Eric
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 11:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] $10K 100 Mile EV

Hi Steve, Good points... I noticed that people just assumed there were
other vehicles to scavenge from. But I specifically stated that No
vehicles exist in the town. Yet plenty of people stated things about
golf carts, fork lifts, rail cars, buses, and converting other
"vehicles" that do not exist in this hypothetical town. The thought
experiment is designed to provoke thought which should have forced
people to think differently in building the vehicle. It had a rather
interesting effect though. People started questioning the "rules" and
"definitions" of the word vehicle itself. I attribute this to and blame
lawyers... ;)

Perhaps we should reconstruct the scenario to transport 1 human being
(you) to the town.

It would have been simpler to propose that YOU are the human in the
middle of a "barren" desert with $10K in your pocket. The only
civilization near you is an EV parts store with every conceivable "part"

for every vehicle ever made (it's a big store). We'll also assume, since
I didn't mention this before, that you also have a garage and all the
tools you would ever need to build this vehicle. (which surprisingly no
one mentioned before)

The challenge would be for "YOU" to get "YOU" out of the barren desert
and to the safety of a town 100 miles away.

To clarify:
1. Cargo:1 human driver (you)
2. No other vehicles exist (none, nada, zero) 3. You have 1 bottle of
water (24 hours: survival time in 120 degree desert heat)

I know this completely changes (reverses) the dynamics of the scenario
to an EV built to carry 1 human driver and 1 bottle of water to the
safety of a town 100 miles away within 24 hours.

Now build the "vehicle"... ;)

Regards,
Eric


On 9/25/2010 10:06 AM, Steve Peterson wrote:
> As a mostly-lurker on this list, I have to pipe up and say that it has

> been fascinating watching people respond to this--it's been a real
> study in watching people read a "spec".
>
> First of all, most (but not all) made the assumption that a
> significant amount of water had to be taken to the town. But the spec
> didn't actually say that *anyone* was in danger of dying of
> dehydration! To
> wit:
>
> "You must get 100 miles to the next town to save the lives of everyone

> in that town who's in danger of dying of dehydration."
>
> Second, many ran afoul of the constraint "no vehicles exist in the
> town you are in". True, "vehicle" was not defined so it wasn't clear
> to me if there was a non-running chassis I could scavenge or not.
>
> Third, many (seemed) to forget the "24 hour rule" that covered not
> only the building of the vehicle but of getting the water to the town
> (if you made the assumption that at least one person needed some
water).
>
> It was also not clear just what constituted a "part" that existed in
> this hypothetical EV store. Would it have, for instance, a steerable,
> rolling chassis with operable brakes that I could buy? Or would I have

> to start with tube steel and fab a chassis, steering, etc. from
scratch?
> Hardly anyone sought to clarify that point and just started
"building".
>
> As a data point, the fastest street-legal auto conversion I've heard
> about (that I recall) is the one Otmar did in a weekend. Based on
> various TV programs like Junkyard Wars, I'd have to say unless we're
> talking about a bike with ready-to-assemble EV parts, I doubt anyone
> could build an EV and cover the 100 miles in 24 hours. I'm willing to
> be wrong about this, however.
>
> But it has been fun reading the responses!
>
> --Steve
>
>
>
Eric wrote:
>
>> Leslie, You're in charge of WASP (Water Access Security Patrol), and
>> maintaining the "Stinging" electric fence to keep the bad guys out.
>> ;)
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On 9/25/2010 9:33 AM, Leslie wrote:
>>
>>> Rather then think of how to get all that water to the next town -
>>> why not build a big ass EV bus that can do 200 miles, then go to the

>>> next town, pick up the ppl and return to where the water is.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, use all the things that are available to build an EV,

>>> and instead build an electric fence around the water and stay put.
>>> If it is post apocalyptic, then it is every man for them self, and
>>> securing water is one of the first things that should be done ;)
>>>
>>> Leslie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24/09/2010 3:51 PM, Eric wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Here's a challenging thought experiment to think outside the box.
>>>>
>>>> Scenario: The year is 2050, you're in a post-apocalyptic wasteland
>>>> formerly known as Las Vegas. You must get 100 miles to the next
>>>> town to save the lives of everyone in that town who's in danger of
>>>> dying of dehydration. They have 24hours to live in the blistering
>>>> desert heat, and you must bring them life saving water. The ONLY
>>>> way to travel is by an EV that you build yourself. Money still
>>>> exists (somehow) and you only have $10K in your pocket with no hope

>>>> of outside financial help. No vehicles exist in the town you are
>>>> in., but there is a store that carries EVERY part to build an EV
from scratch.
>>>>
>>>> Could you build an EV with a 100 mile range with $10K?
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Ok, that's a start... :) That would probably get the job done. But isn't
an e-bike partially human powered?

Path of least resistance strikes again... ;) Anyone else?

Regards,
Eric

On 9/25/2010 11:07 AM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> Nope,
> Does not change my proposal to weld a bicycle frame together,
> assemble it with typical e-Bike parts, which means:
> put in some hub motors, 100Ah pack and controller and go,
> preferably through the night so don't forget the *electric*
> headlights ;-)
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW& Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Eric
> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 11:16 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] $10K 100 Mile EV
>
> Hi Steve, Good points... I noticed that people just assumed there were
> other vehicles to scavenge from. But I specifically stated that No
> vehicles exist in the town. Yet plenty of people stated things about
> golf carts, fork lifts, rail cars, buses, and converting other
> "vehicles" that do not exist in this hypothetical town. The thought
> experiment is designed to provoke thought which should have forced
> people to think differently in building the vehicle. It had a rather
> interesting effect though. People started questioning the "rules" and
> "definitions" of the word vehicle itself. I attribute this to and blame
> lawyers... ;)
>
> Perhaps we should reconstruct the scenario to transport 1 human being
> (you) to the town.
>
> It would have been simpler to propose that YOU are the human in the
> middle of a "barren" desert with $10K in your pocket. The only
> civilization near you is an EV parts store with every conceivable "part"
>
> for every vehicle ever made (it's a big store). We'll also assume, since
> I didn't mention this before, that you also have a garage and all the
> tools you would ever need to build this vehicle. (which surprisingly no
> one mentioned before)
>
> The challenge would be for "YOU" to get "YOU" out of the barren desert
> and to the safety of a town 100 miles away.
>
> To clarify:
> 1. Cargo:1 human driver (you)
> 2. No other vehicles exist (none, nada, zero) 3. You have 1 bottle of
> water (24 hours: survival time in 120 degree desert heat)
>
> I know this completely changes (reverses) the dynamics of the scenario
> to an EV built to carry 1 human driver and 1 bottle of water to the
> safety of a town 100 miles away within 24 hours.
>
> Now build the "vehicle"... ;)
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
> On 9/25/2010 10:06 AM, Steve Peterson wrote:
>
>> As a mostly-lurker on this list, I have to pipe up and say that it has
>>
>
>> been fascinating watching people respond to this--it's been a real
>> study in watching people read a "spec".
>>
>> First of all, most (but not all) made the assumption that a
>> significant amount of water had to be taken to the town. But the spec
>> didn't actually say that *anyone* was in danger of dying of
>> dehydration! To
>> wit:
>>
>> "You must get 100 miles to the next town to save the lives of everyone
>>
>
>> in that town who's in danger of dying of dehydration."
>>
>> Second, many ran afoul of the constraint "no vehicles exist in the
>> town you are in". True, "vehicle" was not defined so it wasn't clear
>> to me if there was a non-running chassis I could scavenge or not.
>>
>> Third, many (seemed) to forget the "24 hour rule" that covered not
>> only the building of the vehicle but of getting the water to the town
>> (if you made the assumption that at least one person needed some
>>
> water).
>
>> It was also not clear just what constituted a "part" that existed in
>> this hypothetical EV store. Would it have, for instance, a steerable,
>> rolling chassis with operable brakes that I could buy? Or would I have
>>
>
>> to start with tube steel and fab a chassis, steering, etc. from
>>
> scratch?
>
>> Hardly anyone sought to clarify that point and just started
>>
> "building".
>
>> As a data point, the fastest street-legal auto conversion I've heard
>> about (that I recall) is the one Otmar did in a weekend. Based on
>> various TV programs like Junkyard Wars, I'd have to say unless we're
>> talking about a bike with ready-to-assemble EV parts, I doubt anyone
>> could build an EV and cover the 100 miles in 24 hours. I'm willing to
>> be wrong about this, however.
>>
>> But it has been fun reading the responses!
>>
>> --Steve
>>
>>
>>
Eric wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Leslie, You're in charge of WASP (Water Access Security Patrol), and
>>> maintaining the "Stinging" electric fence to keep the bad guys out.
>>> ;)
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> On 9/25/2010 9:33 AM, Leslie wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Rather then think of how to get all that water to the next town -
>>>> why not build a big ass EV bus that can do 200 miles, then go to the
>>>>
>
>>>> next town, pick up the ppl and return to where the water is.
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, use all the things that are available to build an EV,
>>>>
>
>>>> and instead build an electric fence around the water and stay put.
>>>> If it is post apocalyptic, then it is every man for them self, and
>>>> securing water is one of the first things that should be done ;)
>>>>
>>>> Leslie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 24/09/2010 3:51 PM, Eric wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Here's a challenging thought experiment to think outside the box.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scenario: The year is 2050, you're in a post-apocalyptic wasteland
>>>>> formerly known as Las Vegas. You must get 100 miles to the next
>>>>> town to save the lives of everyone in that town who's in danger of
>>>>> dying of dehydration. They have 24hours to live in the blistering
>>>>> desert heat, and you must bring them life saving water. The ONLY
>>>>> way to travel is by an EV that you build yourself. Money still
>>>>> exists (somehow) and you only have $10K in your pocket with no hope
>>>>>
>
>>>>> of outside financial help. No vehicles exist in the town you are
>>>>> in., but there is a store that carries EVERY part to build an EV
>>>>>
> from scratch.
>
>>>>> Could you build an EV with a 100 mile range with $10K?
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
The solutions you get are heavily dependent on how you state the
problem. The original statement was vague enough to encourage all sorts
of "legalistic" thinking.

It didn't help that your scenario wasn't very realistic. It encouraged
us to imagine what you "really" meant. What sorts of parts would be in
that store in 2050, and what would $10k buy? It's also hard to imagine a
town with *no* vehicles of any kind, either running or broken.

Eric wrote:
> Perhaps we should reconstruct the scenario to transport 1 human being
> (you) to the town.
> 1. Cargo: 1 human driver (you)
> 2. No other vehicles exist (none, nada, zero)
> 3. You have 1 bottle of water (24 hours: survival time in 120 degree
> desert heat)

OK, that's better. But the money and store still serves to confuse things.

I'm also not sure of the point for this exercise. Placing in 40 years in
the future and providing a big pile of money puts it more in the realm
of fantasy than reality.

As an example of creativity, MAKE magazine publishes a puzzle like this
in each issue. They describe the scenario, explicitly describe what you
have to work with, and what your goal is. There are usually multiple
solutions, and often involve using ordinary things in
out-of-the-ordinary ways.

I just read a great book on this sort of thinking. "The Boy Who
Harnessed the Wind" by William Kamkwamba. It's the true story of a
14-year-old boy who lived in a desperately poor African village. He
scrounged junk to build a windmill, so he had electric power, so his
family had light. He scrounged broken radios, and learned to fix them by
trial and error, so they had information from the outside world. He
expanded the windmill to pump water, so they could irrigate their farm
and beat the drought.

He built his windmill from tree branches for the tower, with nails
pulled from scrap lumber. The windmill blades were plastic pipe dug up
from an abandoned sewer, heated and flattened. They attached to the
pedals of an old bicycle. The rear wheel of the bicycle had a small
electric motor, friction driven by the tire. The whole bicycle was
installed on top of the tower. Wires ran down to old car tail lights.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Eric wrote:

> To clarify:
> 1. Cargo:1 human driver (you)
> 2. No other vehicles exist (none, nada, zero)
> 3. You have 1 bottle of water (24 hours: survival time in 120 degree
> desert heat)
>
> I know this completely changes (reverses) the dynamics of the scenario
> to an EV built to carry 1 human driver and 1 bottle of water to the
> safety of a town 100 miles away within 24 hours.
>
> Now build the "vehicle"... ;)

Ok. 120 deg heat, so I would plan my escape trip for nighttime.
Assume 10 hours of darkness, so I would have have to average 10 miles
per hour. No problem for an E-bike. Can I just buy a completed E-
bike from the EV store? If so, they are normally 24V or 36V. Lets go
with the 36V 350 watt model preferably a mountain bike to hold the
weight. Load me up with 10 fully charged 100 Ah LiFePO4 cells. They
could put out the full 350 watts for 10 hours continuously, any
probably do closer to 15 mph.

Come on. Make it more challenging!




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