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Discussion Starter #1
Hello
Any recommendations on how to hook up an elcon battery charger that accepts 120 & 220 ?
I don't want two plugs coming out of the charger because that doesn't seem safe.
I could use some sort of adapter for 110-220...just concerned about codes... Seems goofy

Sent from my iPhone

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Discussion Starter #2
Yes, what you describe is similar to what I had when I used one
of the several different Manzanita Micro PFC chargers I owned.
A PFC charger comes with a 14-50 plug on the end.

I made a 10-3 adapter cord with a 14-50 receptacle and a
5-15 plug. When feeding the PC charger 110VAC, I connect the
Ground, one Hot and the Neutral. Check your charger's wiring
to see if this is what it needs, and wire your adapter cord
appropriate to your charger.




> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [email protected]
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Subject: [EVDL] 120/220 charger
> Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 16:48:24 -0900
>
>
> Hello
> Any recommendations on how to hook up an elcon battery charger that
> accepts 120 & 220 ?
> I don't want two plugs coming out of the charger because that
> doesn't seem safe.
> I could use some sort of adapter for 110-220...just concerned about
> codes... Seems goofy
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


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Discussion Starter #3
an adapter would be the way to go.

you could put a special plug on the charger, and on each adapter, so no-one
can use the adapters for anything else......


Matt

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:48 AM
Subject: [EVDL] 120/220 charger


> Hello
> Any recommendations on how to hook up an elcon battery charger that
> accepts 120 & 220 ?
> I don't want two plugs coming out of the charger because that doesn't seem
> safe.
> I could use some sort of adapter for 110-220...just concerned about
> codes... Seems goofy
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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>
>
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>

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Discussion Starter #4
[email protected] wrote:
> Hello
> Any recommendations on how to hook up an elcon battery charger that accepts 120 & 220 ?
> I don't want two plugs coming out of the charger because that doesn't seem safe.
> I could use some sort of adapter for 110-220...just concerned about codes... Seems goofy

I made a short adapter cable that goes into my 220v twist lock under my
fuel door and has a female 110v. I keep that and a 25' 14 ga extension
cord in the car for opportunity charging. Works fine.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 150 days 2 hours 11 minutes

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Discussion Starter #5
Willie McKemie wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 04:48:24PM -0900, [email protected] wrote:
> > Hello
> > Any recommendations on how to hook up an elcon battery charger that accepts 120 & 220 ?
> > I don't want two plugs coming out of the charger because that doesn't seem safe.
> > I could use some sort of adapter for 110-220...just concerned about codes... Seems goofy
>
> I made a short adapter cable that goes into my 220v twist lock under my
> fuel door and has a female 110v. I keep that and a 25' 14 ga extension
> cord in the car for opportunity charging. Works fine.

Elaboration: For the adapter cable, I just cut about 1 foot off of a
110v extension cord (male end) and used that nice molded fixture.

I have interchangeable Zivan (220v only) and Elcoh under the hood. I
leave the Elcon installed most of the time. With the Zivan installed,
I leave myself open to mistakenly giving it 110v.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 150 days 2 hours 20 minutes

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Discussion Starter #6
Willie wrote:
> I made a short adapter cable that goes into my
> 220v twist lock under my fuel door and has a female 110v.

Most likely the twist lock under your fuel door is male,
so you made an adapter cable with female twist-lock socket
and a male NEMA 5-15 plug (the one-foot end of a heavy duty
appliance cord or extension cable).

This male 110V adapter you can now plug into your standard
extension cord, which allows you to plug into a wall socket
and provide a female plug near your vehicle, so you can
plug the adapter into 110V.

Let me know if this description is incorrect!

Just trying to clarify to avoid dangerous confusion, like
the "smart" people who fire up a genset when their power
goes out and plug a cord with two male ends in the genset
and a nearby wall outlet, so their house is "live" again.
Ouch!

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Willie McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 5:40 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 120/220 charger

Willie McKemie wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 04:48:24PM -0900, [email protected] wrote:
> > Hello
> > Any recommendations on how to hook up an elcon battery charger that
accepts 120 & 220 ?
> > I don't want two plugs coming out of the charger because that
doesn't seem safe.
> > I could use some sort of adapter for 110-220...just concerned about
> > codes... Seems goofy
>
> I made a short adapter cable that goes into my 220v twist lock under
> my fuel door and has a female 110v. I keep that and a 25' 14 ga
> extension cord in the car for opportunity charging. Works fine.

Elaboration: For the adapter cable, I just cut about 1 foot off of a
110v extension cord (male end) and used that nice molded fixture.

I have interchangeable Zivan (220v only) and Elcoh under the hood. I
leave the Elcon installed most of the time. With the Zivan installed, I
leave myself open to mistakenly giving it 110v.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 150 days 2 hours 20 minutes

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Discussion Starter #7
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 05:49:12PM +0530, Cor van de Water wrote:
> Willie wrote:
> > I made a short adapter cable that goes into my
> > 220v twist lock under my fuel door and has a female 110v.
>
> Most likely the twist lock under your fuel door is male,
> so you made an adapter cable with female twist-lock socket
> and a male NEMA 5-15 plug (the one-foot end of a heavy duty
> appliance cord or extension cable).
>
> This male 110V adapter you can now plug into your standard
> extension cord, which allows you to plug into a wall socket
> and provide a female plug near your vehicle, so you can
> plug the adapter into 110V.
>
> Let me know if this description is incorrect!

You are correct! I said "female" where I should have said "male".
That's a mistake I find easy to make; thanks for catching it. No hot
males exposed.
>
> Just trying to clarify to avoid dangerous confusion, like
> the "smart" people who fire up a genset when their power
> goes out and plug a cord with two male ends in the genset
> and a nearby wall outlet, so their house is "live" again.
> Ouch!

That's probably the way I would do it. What is the proper and safe
way?

> > I made a short adapter cable that goes into my 220v twist lock under
> > my fuel door and has a female 110v. I keep that and a 25' 14 ga
---------------------------male^
> > extension cord in the car for opportunity charging. Works fine.
>
> Elaboration: For the adapter cable, I just cut about 1 foot off of a
> 110v extension cord (male end) and used that nice molded fixture.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 150 days 5 hours 34 minutes

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Discussion Starter #8
> Any recommendations on how to hook up an elcon battery charger that accepts 120& 220 ?
> I don't want two plugs coming out of the charger because that doesn't seem safe.
> I could use some sort of adapter for 110-220...just concerned about codes... Seems goofy

Here are a few schemes that have been used for 120/240v chargers to
prevent exposure of "live" pins or damage from plugging into the wrong
voltage.

You can put a male plug on the charger with both 120v and 240v input
pins. Make two "extension cords". One wired for 120v, and one wired for
240v. Plugging in the cord makes all the necessary connections.

Lester has male 120v and 240v connectors on the front panel of their
chargers. They are recessed behind the panel enough so a sliding door
can cover one or the other without hitting the male pins. You slide the
door to one side, exposing one connector. Plug an extension cord into
it, and into the wall. The door prevents you from touching the pins of
the unused connector.

Build a little box with relay in it. The relay's coil voltage is chosen
so it won't pull in at 120vac, so its contacts wire the charger input
for 120vac. If 240vac is applied, the relay pulls in, and rewires the
charger for 240v.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Discussion Starter #9
"That's probably the way I would do it. What is the proper and safe
way?"
A transfer switch, manual or automatic. Basically a double throw switch so
the circuits are either connected to the grid or the generator, not both, so
you don't electrocute the utility service people. A service disconnect
works the same, but mounts between the main power meter and the main service
panel, eliminating the need for a subpanel. Scroll down to short articles
on each here:

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/how-to-library.php
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/120-220-charger-tp3291691p3297523.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Discussion Starter #10
??? How does this relate to the charging question?

I was thinking of different adaptors which converted each sort of
cords to the same female plug to plug into a male plug coming from the
charger on the car. You'd have something special there, that has an
amperage and voltage rating as high as the highest you would use, and
a form factor that would not be confused with any actual voltages youd
find, or maybe something like a 4 prong 30a twistloc so if you did
actually plug one if those in it would atill work properly, then the
adaptors would let you plug a 15a 120vac cord into it, or a 30a 240vac
dryer plug, or a 30a 240vac twistloc into there and you'd just pick
the correct adaptor for what you were plugging into.

Z

tomw <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "That's probably the way I would do it. What is the proper and safe
> way?"
> A transfer switch, manual or automatic. Basically a double throw switc=
h so
> the circuits are either connected to the grid or the generator, not both,=
so
> you don't electrocute the utility service people. A service disconnect
> works the same, but mounts between the main power meter and the main serv=
ice
> panel, eliminating the need for a subpanel. Scroll down to short artic=
les
> on each here:
>
> http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/how-to-library.php
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413=
529.n4.nabble.com/120-220-charger-tp3291691p3297523.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Na=
bble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #11
I said:
>> people who fire up a genset when their power goes out and plug a cord

>> with two male ends in the genset and a nearby wall outlet...

Willie asked:
>That's probably the way I would do it. What is the proper and safe
way?

Hi Willie,
There are three big no-nos with this situation:
1. The plug that is stuck in the wall outlet is hot, which means
that if someone unplugs it then high voltage on the pins is
exposed and there is no protection against unplugging it.
You could cover the outlet with a lockable cover, but it does
not remove the source of the problem, the "hot male" plug.
2. There is no breaker for all the outlets and appliances that
are on the same group as where you plug in.
If the generator can supply 30A and you use a heavy duty cord
to plug in your house, you can now pull 30A from every
outlet on the same breaker, so the house wiring may fail
which means it may overheat and cause a fire because it does
not go through a breaker. All *other* circuits go through
2 breakers, the breaker of *this* circuit and their own breaker,
this is the result of this "backfeeding".
3. The biggest risk of accidents is where power is out, because
the utility company needs to work on the medium voltage (11kV)
that runs to the pole transformers. If the load in your and
your neighbor's houses is light and you forget to throw all your
breakers to disconnect from the incoming 240V then your poor
generator may backfeed into the pole transformer and put 11,000V
on the line that the power company just disconnected to work on!
Even if nobody gets hurt, the power company might decide that
your house installation is not safe and simply not connect
power until you have proven with an inspection report that
everything is OK again.

All these problems can be avoided with a "transfer switch".
This is a simple double pole double throw switch with a large
handle (or it can even be automatic like electromagnetic) that
selects from which source your house (or part of your house) is powered.

Typically this switches between the grid and a backup power source
such as a UPS or genset.
Typically not the entire house is switched, but for example only
the lights and outlets that provide necessary functions, but not
water heater, range, washers, drier or Airco.
This means that those loads may be attached to two different subpanels
and only one subpanel is on the transfer switch, so that the load
on the genset or UPS is manageable.

Note that the transfer switch is constructed in such a way that
it can never connect the two input sources together, it is a
"break before make" switch. This will guarantee that the genset
can never power the incoming grid in case of a blackout and
cause a dangerous situation.
Also the transfer switch is typically hardwired, so you cannot
pull out a male plug with exposed live pins.

Since all loads are fed from the same source side, either grid or
genset, they are also properly connected via a breaker and the
house wiring is properly protected.

You can read more about Transfer Switches here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_switch

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

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Discussion Starter #12
One simple way is a mechanical one. I've owned and seen a few dual-voltage
items (mostly chargers) that have two inlets with a sliding metal door. If
you raise the door to access the 240v inlet, the 120v inlet is covered.

This eliminates the admittedly quite slight hazard that if you leave the
adapter connected to the 240v cord or receptacle, someone might plug in a
120v appliance. It's also a bit more elegant than an adapter.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Discussion Starter #13
I just finished doing this on my Honda del Sol with an Elcon that
automatically supports 110 to 220V charging. I think I did it in a pretty
safe manner.

I installed a twist-lock RECEPTACLE under the gas cap door of the del Sol.
I specifically purchased a Leviton 2625F from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-
keywords=leviton+2625F&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aleviton+2625F&ajr=3

I then created two pigtail extension cords. The first fits my 220V shop
circuit plug and has a twist lock female on the other end. The second has a
20A 110V plug on one end and the twist lock female on the other end. These
are both wired with 10ga 3 conductor wire in a rubber outer sheath.

The twist-lock receptacle was a little hard to find, but it is the correct
connector to install on the car. That allows the pigtails to have no
exposed male pins when plugged into an active circuit. Amazon had it, and
for what I thought was a reasonable price. I was able to get all the other
twist lock connectors at my local electrical supply or Home Depot store.

It actually turned out that the 2625F fit perfectly in the fuel opening of
the Honda. The connector is rated up to 250V and 30A. I only need 15A on
110 and 10A on 220V.

I also wired in an interlock on the fuel filler door so that the car can't
be driven off while the door is open. It would really mess up the twist
lock to try and drive off. It isn't going to let go! The 110V plug might
let go, but I don't think the 220V plug will let go very easily either.
Better to prevent it. I did this with a pin switch on the door. Also from
Amazon.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:48 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] 120/220 charger

Hello
Any recommendations on how to hook up an elcon battery charger that accepts
120 & 220 ?
I don't want two plugs coming out of the charger because that doesn't seem
safe.
I could use some sort of adapter for 110-220...just concerned about codes...
Seems goofy

Sent from my iPhone

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Discussion Starter #14
Hi Mike,
Mike Nickerson wrote:

>
> I also wired in an interlock on the fuel filler door so that the car can't
> be driven off while the door is open.

What interlock did you use for this? Do you have the brand or part number?

corbin

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Discussion Starter #15
I made my own. I took a pin switch and wired it through a single-pole,
double-throw 12V automotive relay. The pin switch is grounded when it's not
pushed in and open when it is pushed in. It has a single wire coming from
the switch.

I wired the relay so that one side of the coil is wired to the car's
ignition and the other side of the coil is wired through the pin switch to
ground When the ignition is on, the coil is active if the pin switch is
grounded (filler door is open). The ignition signal going to the contactor
and all other normal ignition uses is a new signal created as the output of
this relay. I am using the normally closed output of the relay to drive the
new ignition signal with a fused 12V line from the battery.

This lets me avoid overloading the ignition signal (all it's driving now is
my relay) and "condition" my ignition signal with the fuel filler door
switch.

If the door is closed, the relay turns off and the contactor and electric
brake pump are enabled.

If the door is open, the relay turns on, and the contactor and other
accessories are disabled.

This makes the circuit work the way I need with the pin switch and also
helps the relay life because it is almost always not powered. However, it
does have the disadvantage of not being totally failsafe. If the pin switch
fails or a wire is broken, I will lose my interlock (the car would still
drive).

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of corbin dunn
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:07 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 120/220 charger

Hi Mike,
Mike Nickerson wrote:

>
> I also wired in an interlock on the fuel filler door so that the car
> can't be driven off while the door is open.

What interlock did you use for this? Do you have the brand or part number?

corbin

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Use a 12V relay to switch between the 2 voltages, so that either will
operate the charger. That may mean a manual switch to operate the relay, but
that's not a bad thing, either. The only issue is if the voltage runs the
BMS, then it may get a little complicated.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:48 PM
Subject: [EVDL] 120/220 charger


> Hello
> Any recommendations on how to hook up an elcon battery charger that
> accepts 120 & 220 ?
> I don't want two plugs coming out of the charger because that doesn't seem
> safe.
> I could use some sort of adapter for 110-220...just concerned about
> codes... Seems goofy
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> _______________________________________________
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Another failure to watch out for
(you see it in older cars all the time)
is that the pin switch contact can get dirty
(no contact) so that with the filler door open
you would still have no contact and no interlock.

Since this is hard to detect, it may be good to
wire a small 12V light to come on when you open
the filler door. It can even help you plug in
when there is not much ambient light.
It will give you an immediate warning if the
pin switch is not making contact, because the
light will not come on any longer or begins to
be intermittent like you always see in the door
contact of older cars when rust sets in...

Success,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Mike Nickerson
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 12:50 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 120/220 charger

I made my own. I took a pin switch and wired it through a single-pole,
double-throw 12V automotive relay. The pin switch is grounded when it's
not pushed in and open when it is pushed in. It has a single wire
coming from the switch.

I wired the relay so that one side of the coil is wired to the car's
ignition and the other side of the coil is wired through the pin switch
to ground When the ignition is on, the coil is active if the pin switch
is grounded (filler door is open). The ignition signal going to the
contactor and all other normal ignition uses is a new signal created as
the output of this relay. I am using the normally closed output of the
relay to drive the new ignition signal with a fused 12V line from the
battery.

This lets me avoid overloading the ignition signal (all it's driving now
is my relay) and "condition" my ignition signal with the fuel filler
door switch.

If the door is closed, the relay turns off and the contactor and
electric brake pump are enabled.

If the door is open, the relay turns on, and the contactor and other
accessories are disabled.

This makes the circuit work the way I need with the pin switch and also
helps the relay life because it is almost always not powered. However,
it does have the disadvantage of not being totally failsafe. If the pin
switch fails or a wire is broken, I will lose my interlock (the car
would still drive).

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of corbin dunn
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:07 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 120/220 charger

Hi Mike,
Mike Nickerson wrote:

>
> I also wired in an interlock on the fuel filler door so that the car
> can't be driven off while the door is open.

What interlock did you use for this? Do you have the brand or part
number?

corbin

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