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Discussion Starter #1
I'm planning to spin up a company with a online battery system design tool.

Idea is that you just take video and photos of you stripped donor
vehicle and upload them to our server. Then you could log in and set
the system parameters (voltage, hoped capacity, price target, heat
insulation or not, heating, etc.). After several steps the virtual
model of the battery system would be in the system. After checking out
from the shop you'd receive the ready made battery system with 60 mo
warranty to your door step. It can have all parts needed from charger
to auxiliary DC/DC's and public fast charging cable harnesses.

I had this idea already in 2004 or so but we did not have good tools
to do the 3D scanning. Soon it is only one click away from anyones
smartphone.

Any comments ? (besides possibly too high price)

-akkuJukka

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Discussion Starter #2
Great Idea.
Just wonder about those little bitty bumps that always keep that last cell
from sliding smoothly into place. Customer measures 36" of room, but at
the base or corner a slight curve makes it only 35". They order a pack.
You make it and send it. They go to put it in and.... uh oh, don't fit.
What then?
Again, cool idea, just wondering how you would handle that sort of thing...

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 4:55 AM, Jukka J=E4rvinen <[email protected]>wr=
ote:

> I'm planning to spin up a company with a online battery system design too=
l.
>
> Idea is that you just take video and photos of you stripped donor
> vehicle and upload them to our server. Then you could log in and set
> the system parameters (voltage, hoped capacity, price target, heat
> insulation or not, heating, etc.). After several steps the virtual
> model of the battery system would be in the system. After checking out
> from the shop you'd receive the ready made battery system with 60 mo
> warranty to your door step. It can have all parts needed from charger
> to auxiliary DC/DC's and public fast charging cable harnesses.
>
> I had this idea already in 2004 or so but we did not have good tools
> to do the 3D scanning. Soon it is only one click away from anyones
> smartphone.
>
> Any comments ? (besides possibly too high price)
>
> -akkuJukka
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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>



-- =

Marcus Reddish

*North Valley Systems LLC*
Stevensville, Montana
406-360-8628
northvalleyev.com
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Discussion Starter #3
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Jukka J=E4rvinen <[email protected]>wr=
ote:

> I'm planning to spin up a company with a online battery system design too=
l.
>
> Idea is that you just take video and photos of you stripped donor
> vehicle and upload them to our server. Then you could log in and set
> the system parameters (voltage, hoped capacity, price target, heat
> insulation or not, heating, etc.). After several steps the virtual
> model of the battery system would be in the system. After checking out
> from the shop you'd receive the ready made battery system with 60 mo
> warranty to your door step. It can have all parts needed from charger
> to auxiliary DC/DC's and public fast charging cable harnesses.
>
> I had this idea already in 2004 or so but we did not have good tools
> to do the 3D scanning. Soon it is only one click away from anyones
> smartphone.
>
> Any comments ? (besides possibly too high price)


You're talking about 3D scanning. It's very expensive, and not likely to
be available on anyone's smartphone any time soon. It would be easy to get
something wrong in the process you propose. Who would be responsible?
Currently the only feasible approach would be for you to set up your
scanning equipment at the customer's site, gather the data and assume all
responsibility.

Nice idea, but probably ahead of its time.

Chris
LeSled is for sale!
http://www.evalbum.com/274
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Discussion Starter #4
World is changing maybe faster than expected :)

I've seen this done with a standard webcam.

Also this seems to be possible (not only in the vaporware regim)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DmD29NIK3hSU

I can see no reason why we could not calculate the data from a full HD
video. It will not take that much CPU power from the camera.

If it would be that easy already we all would be doing it. I'm looking
new ways to get this business evolve faster. Lot's of work to be done.

As you might already guess the next logical step is to build the
battery inside the pack with much less mechanics. We could cut the
cell exactly in the shape of the box and maximize the Wh/kg and Wh/l.
When integrating all in a factory it should be more efficient and
tamper free.

-Jukka


http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about


2012/11/2 Chris Tromley <[email protected]>:
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Jukka J=E4rvinen <[email protected]>=
wrote:
>
>> I'm planning to spin up a company with a online battery system design to=
ol.
>>
>> Idea is that you just take video and photos of you stripped donor
>> vehicle and upload them to our server. Then you could log in and set
>> the system parameters (voltage, hoped capacity, price target, heat
>> insulation or not, heating, etc.). After several steps the virtual
>> model of the battery system would be in the system. After checking out
>> from the shop you'd receive the ready made battery system with 60 mo
>> warranty to your door step. It can have all parts needed from charger
>> to auxiliary DC/DC's and public fast charging cable harnesses.
>>
>> I had this idea already in 2004 or so but we did not have good tools
>> to do the 3D scanning. Soon it is only one click away from anyones
>> smartphone.
>>
>> Any comments ? (besides possibly too high price)
>
>
> You're talking about 3D scanning. It's very expensive, and not likely to
> be available on anyone's smartphone any time soon. It would be easy to g=
et
> something wrong in the process you propose. Who would be responsible?
> Currently the only feasible approach would be for you to set up your
> scanning equipment at the customer's site, gather the data and assume all
> responsibility.
>
> Nice idea, but probably ahead of its time.
>
> Chris
> LeSled is for sale!
> http://www.evalbum.com/274
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20121102/1b3009=
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> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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Discussion Starter #5
One of the large CAD companies had a feature on their website where
you could upload a video of an object and they produced a 3d model
from it. Not sure how accurate it is but it looked good.



On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Jukka J=E4rvinen <[email protected]> w=
rote:
> World is changing maybe faster than expected :)
>
> I've seen this done with a standard webcam.
>
> Also this seems to be possible (not only in the vaporware regim)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DmD29NIK3hSU
>
> I can see no reason why we could not calculate the data from a full HD
> video. It will not take that much CPU power from the camera.
>
> If it would be that easy already we all would be doing it. I'm looking
> new ways to get this business evolve faster. Lot's of work to be done.
>
> As you might already guess the next logical step is to build the
> battery inside the pack with much less mechanics. We could cut the
> cell exactly in the shape of the box and maximize the Wh/kg and Wh/l.
> When integrating all in a factory it should be more efficient and
> tamper free.
>
> -Jukka
>
>
> http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about
>
>
> 2012/11/2 Chris Tromley <[email protected]>:
>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Jukka J=E4rvinen <[email protected]=
>wrote:
>>
>>> I'm planning to spin up a company with a online battery system design t=
ool.
>>>
>>> Idea is that you just take video and photos of you stripped donor
>>> vehicle and upload them to our server. Then you could log in and set
>>> the system parameters (voltage, hoped capacity, price target, heat
>>> insulation or not, heating, etc.). After several steps the virtual
>>> model of the battery system would be in the system. After checking out
>>> from the shop you'd receive the ready made battery system with 60 mo
>>> warranty to your door step. It can have all parts needed from charger
>>> to auxiliary DC/DC's and public fast charging cable harnesses.
>>>
>>> I had this idea already in 2004 or so but we did not have good tools
>>> to do the 3D scanning. Soon it is only one click away from anyones
>>> smartphone.
>>>
>>> Any comments ? (besides possibly too high price)
>>
>>
>> You're talking about 3D scanning. It's very expensive, and not likely to
>> be available on anyone's smartphone any time soon. It would be easy to =
get
>> something wrong in the process you propose. Who would be responsible?
>> Currently the only feasible approach would be for you to set up your
>> scanning equipment at the customer's site, gather the data and assume all
>> responsibility.
>>
>> Nice idea, but probably ahead of its time.
>>
>> Chris
>> LeSled is for sale!
>> http://www.evalbum.com/274
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20121102/1b300=
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>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
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-- =

www.electric-lemon.com

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Discussion Starter #6
60 month warranty may be interesting for EV Diy-ers. It depends upon what
kind of batteries you will use and how much you'll charge for the batteries
with the warranty.

If there's something wrong with the batteries at your customer's hand, how
will you do ?

Jerry



On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Jukka J=E4rvinen <[email protected]>wr=
ote:

> I'm planning to spin up a company with a online battery system design too=
l.
>
> Idea is that you just take video and photos of you stripped donor
> vehicle and upload them to our server. Then you could log in and set
> the system parameters (voltage, hoped capacity, price target, heat
> insulation or not, heating, etc.). After several steps the virtual
> model of the battery system would be in the system. After checking out
> from the shop you'd receive the ready made battery system with 60 mo
> warranty to your door step. It can have all parts needed from charger
> to auxiliary DC/DC's and public fast charging cable harnesses.
>
> I had this idea already in 2004 or so but we did not have good tools
> to do the 3D scanning. Soon it is only one click away from anyones
> smartphone.
>
> Any comments ? (besides possibly too high price)
>
> -akkuJukka
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
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|
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Discussion Starter #7
About that scaling effort.

To the surroundings to be scanned you need to add few standard form
accessories. It sets the scale since the standard form can be measured
quite accurately and added as a reference. A beer can is a good
standard. Imagine the possible good side effects..

The good wife asks with snappy voice: "Honey.. where are you going
again with those beer cans ?"

Your reply: "Uh.. I need to get our conversion project scanned in the garag=
e."

"Very good then." and she thinks "I do have a handyman in my house"

Have to be said. The beer can do not have to be full all the time.


:D

-Jukka

http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about


2012/11/3 Mike Nickerson <[email protected]>:
> Hi Jukka,
>
> I would find the scanning and 3d model you could build from the scans
> invaluable. I went through rearranging my batteries and adding boxes aro=
und
> them last winter. Even though the batteries originally fit and I was mak=
ing
> fairly small changes, the process was still nerve-wracking because I was
> working blind. I was also turning the top battery pack around so it could
> still clear the brake master cylinder when the box was added.
>
> I increased the height of the batteries 3/4" when I added the box and top
> cover. I lowered the rack about 1/2" to compensate, but I was still very
> concerned how it was all going to fit. Luckily, the hood ribs were in ju=
st
> the right places and I only had to round a corner or two to get the hood
> closed. I would gladly have paid a few hundred dollars for a service that
> would have told me where the batteries and hood would be when I closed the
> hood! I had to make do with sticky notes and clay to see where the tight
> spots were.
>
> In a Honda del Sol, things are just that tight!
>
> I would probably be less interested in the custom battery packs at this
> point, but maybe if I ever did another conversion.
>
> Mike
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
>> Behalf Of Jukka J=E4rvinen
>> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 10:26 AM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 3D modeling
>>
>> When the shapes are set we could provide the cutting details of a mockup.
>> The customer could just cut and glue according the blueprints and bill of
>> materials. Standard materials from local hardware store.
>>
>> I've used Solimate /Styrofoam to build mockups.
>> http://www.hydrotechusa.com/product_data/styrofoam_pds.pdf
>>
>> Then again.. if the mockup task is too much for a person going for a
>> conversion... It might be better to visit the local Leaf dealer instead.
>>
>> Cost of the prototype mockup is less than $100 which is easy to save when
>> there is no hassel and too much head ache with the conversion.
>> There is enough things to do without all battery stuff.
>>
>> Sealed battery system with BMS and remote management tool on your cell..
>>
>> ..Now let's have some more of these wet dreams :D
>>
>> -Jukka
>>
>>
>> http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/2 Marcus Reddish <[email protected]>:
>> > Great Idea.
>> > Just wonder about those little bitty bumps that always keep that last
>> > cell from sliding smoothly into place. Customer measures 36" of room,
>> > but at the base or corner a slight curve makes it only 35". They order
> a
>> pack.
>> > You make it and send it. They go to put it in and.... uh oh, don't
> fit.
>> > What then?
>> > Again, cool idea, just wondering how you would handle that sort of
> thing...
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 4:55 AM, Jukka J=E4rvinen
>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm planning to spin up a company with a online battery system design
>> tool.
>> >>
>> >> Idea is that you just take video and photos of you stripped donor
>> >> vehicle and upload them to our server. Then you could log in and set
>> >> the system parameters (voltage, hoped capacity, price target, heat
>> >> insulation or not, heating, etc.). After several steps the virtual
>> >> model of the battery system would be in the system. After checking
>> >> out from the shop you'd receive the ready made battery system with 60
>> >> mo warranty to your door step. It can have all parts needed from
>> >> charger to auxiliary DC/DC's and public fast charging cable harnesses.
>> >>
>> >> I had this idea already in 2004 or so but we did not have good tools
>> >> to do the 3D scanning. Soon it is only one click away from anyones
>> >> smartphone.
>> >>
>> >> Any comments ? (besides possibly too high price)
>> >>
>> >> -akkuJukka
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> >> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>> >> |
>> >> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> >> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> >> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> >> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> >> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Marcus Reddish
>> >
>> > *North Valley Systems LLC*
>> > Stevensville, Montana
>> > 406-360-8628
>> > northvalleyev.com
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>>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #8
"Just wonder about those little bitty bumps that always keep that last cell
from sliding smoothly into place..."

That would be my concern. The devil is in the details as they say...One way
to address such issues is to cut the pack shape out of styrofoam or similar
and ship it to the customer for a test fit.



--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/3D-modeling-tp4659085p4659117.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Discussion Starter #9
Mike Nickerson <[email protected]>wrote:

> In a Honda del Sol, things are just that tight!


This is my main concern with the concept. My Lectric Leopard is also very
tight where I increased my front pack from six batteries to ten. Some
modifications to the car were defined by the pack, not the other way
around. Hood slope, rib locations, master cylinder position, where to
relocate the wiper motor, clearance to underside of hood latch, clearance
to transmission (which moves!), etc., etc.

Not only do you need to be able to photograph with the hood open and then
model with it closed, you also have to make sure there is an assembly
sequence that actually allows assembly. Some of my batteries must be
installed in a particular sequence, which I had to verify before cutting
and welding. It is possible to model that which cannot be assembled.

I think the key concerns are that the accuracy of the photo-scanning
process must be very high, the customer has thought out all the necessary
details thoroughly, the cutout mockups are an accurate representation of
the final product, and the customer is willing to accept full
responsibility once s/he approves the mockup.

Chris
LeSled is for sale!
http://www.evalbum.com/274
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Discussion Starter #10
Say we compare the battery setup with existing prismatic cells to the
now presented concept.

We know there is a lot of other stuff to support the active materials
in the cell. The plastic or steel casing. Foil assemblies with the
poles. More space is used outside the cell also with inter connects,
BMS, fuses..

Adding the supporting structures to the enclosure, insulation.... and so on.

The amount of energy which you got in your conversion with all the
bits and pieces can be fitted in more smaller and lighter setup. Just
with 'hand made' cells.

If you require more power the active material and/or maechanics can be
chosen accordingly (smaller particles, thinner layers on the
foil/separator). More processed material usually costs more so it's up
to you what you see useful in the conversion.

So how this helps ? We'll leave more tolerance to ensure the right
fit. Think about 2" off from each dimension what you now have.

How to make it all right will be tricky. Has to be admitted. But the
trade-off could be a killer solution for converters. And we know there
are plenty new battery innovations in the labs that will be here now
or bit later.

This would not replace that much of existing cell sales but would
encourage more people to go for it. Privately or with conversion
business.

-Jukka

http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about


2012/11/3 Chris Tromley <[email protected]>:
>
Mike Nickerson <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> In a Honda del Sol, things are just that tight!
>
>
> This is my main concern with the concept. My Lectric Leopard is also very
> tight where I increased my front pack from six batteries to ten. Some
> modifications to the car were defined by the pack, not the other way
> around. Hood slope, rib locations, master cylinder position, where to
> relocate the wiper motor, clearance to underside of hood latch, clearance
> to transmission (which moves!), etc., etc.
>
> Not only do you need to be able to photograph with the hood open and then
> model with it closed, you also have to make sure there is an assembly
> sequence that actually allows assembly. Some of my batteries must be
> installed in a particular sequence, which I had to verify before cutting
> and welding. It is possible to model that which cannot be assembled.
>
> I think the key concerns are that the accuracy of the photo-scanning
> process must be very high, the customer has thought out all the necessary
> details thoroughly, the cutout mockups are an accurate representation of
> the final product, and the customer is willing to accept full
> responsibility once s/he approves the mockup.
>
> Chris
> LeSled is for sale!
> http://www.evalbum.com/274
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Discussion Starter #11
On Sat Nov 03 08:46:54 PDT 2012 [email protected] said:
>How to make it all right will be tricky. Has to be admitted. But the
>trade-off could be a killer solution for converters. And we know there
>are plenty new battery innovations in the labs that will be here now
>or bit later.

What you need is to be able to build a 3D Printer that can print batteries.


--

Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250

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