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Discussion Starter #1
hi, i am starting an electric motorcycle conversion and i have seen a few motors that spark my interest. Most of the motors description state that it can be run in either direction and are neutraly timed, but i have also heard of people advancing the brushes on them in one direction to give some kind of effect. I was just wondering what the advantages of advancing the brushes are, and is it hard to do?

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Discussion Starter #2
a) Advancing improves efficiency:
- no high pitched squeal on startup.
- brushes last longer
- slightly improved range.

b) In an 8" ADC, it is already pre-drilled for
advancing/retarding/neutralling. Pull the 4 screws on
the brush end of the motor (away from main shaft &
fan). Rotate the steel 30 deg. or so, until the holes
are now in-line with the screws. Put the screws in
and re-tighten.
If the motor is out, it may take 30 minues if you do
it sslooooowwwwwwly.

c) FYI, my understanding is that in _cars_, the
crankshaft rotates the opposite directions in my
Civvy, which means I advance, others retard. As far
as motorcycles, I can't offer you any guidance.
Sorry,

--- Tim Gamber <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> hi, i am starting an electric motorcycle conversion
> and i have seen a few motors that spark my interest.
> Most of the motors description state that it can be
> run in either direction and are neutraly timed, but
> i have also heard of people advancing the brushes on
> them in one direction to give some kind of effect. I
> was just wondering what the advantages of advancing
> the brushes are, and is it hard to do?
>
>
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> News, entertainment and everything you care about at
> Live.com. Get it now!
> http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 "CiviWithACord" DVD shows footage of my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?


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Discussion Starter #3
Hey Tim, Bob, all

--- Bob Bath <[email protected]> wrote:

> a) Advancing improves efficiency:

Ooops, sorry but that's not correct Bob, it will
actually cause a little less eff.

> - no high pitched squeal on startup.

Advancing brushes should have no effect on brush
noise.

> - brushes last longer

This is kind of true as if you arc your brushes then
they will have to be repaced.

> - slightly improved range.

Higher RPM at "X" current it will do.


> b) In an 8" ADC, it is already pre-drilled for
> advancing/retarding/neutralling.

Actually there are a number of motors that have
pre-existing advancement holes, not all are tapped
though.

> Pull the 4 screws on
> the brush end of the motor (away from main shaft &
> fan). Rotate the steel 30 deg. or so, until the
> holes are now in-line with the screws.
> Put the screws in and re-tighten.
> If the motor is out, it may take 30 minues if you do
> it sslooooowwwwwwly.

Not sure how you got 30 degrees there Bob, but it's
about 10 degrees for CCWDE rotation and less, at about
7 degrees for CWDE (Honda rotation). At 30 degrees
I'm doubting the motor would run! Just a heads up to
not quote if you do not know the facts which could
cause someone to do very bad things to their motor!

> c) FYI, my understanding is that in _cars_, the
> crankshaft rotates the opposite directions in my
> Civvy, which means I advance, others retard. As far
> as motorcycles, I can't offer you any guidance.
> Sorry,

I have a pic showing an ADC9 motor with it advanced
for CCWDE. For a CWDE rotation the brushes would sit
onh the other side of the pole shoe bolt heads.
Here's the link to my site and the pic here.
http://hitorqueelectric.com/gallery/v/Step_by_step/Brush+Advancement/BRUSH+ADVANCE+PIC.GIF.html

The only real reason to advance the motor brushes is
so they won't arc under higher voltages than the motor
was designed for.

Sorry I didn't get to this earlier but I was out of
town for the weekend.

Hope this helps.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric




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Discussion Starter #4
--- Jim Husted <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hey Tim, Bob, all
>
> --- Bob Bath <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > a) Advancing improves efficiency:
>
> Ooops, sorry but that's not correct Bob, it will
> actually cause a little less eff.
Wow, thanks-- I didn't realize that...

>
> > - no high pitched squeal on startup.
>
> Advancing brushes should have no effect on brush
> noise.
Am speaking from experience on this one.
>
> > - brushes last longer
>
> This is kind of true as if you arc your brushes then
> they will have to be repaced.
>
> > - slightly improved range.
>
> Higher RPM at "X" current it will do.
>
>
> > b) In an 8" ADC, it is already pre-drilled for
> > advancing/retarding/neutralling.
>
> Actually there are a number of motors that have
> pre-existing advancement holes, not all are tapped
> though.
>
> > Pull the 4 screws on
> > the brush end of the motor (away from main shaft &
> > fan). Rotate the steel 30 deg. or so, until the
> > holes are now in-line with the screws.
> > Put the screws in and re-tighten.
> > If the motor is out, it may take 30 minues if you
> do
> > it sslooooowwwwwwly.
>
> Not sure how you got 30 degrees there Bob, but it's
> about 10 degrees for CCWDE rotation and less, at
> about
> 7 degrees for CWDE (Honda rotation). At 30 degrees
> I'm doubting the motor would run! Just a heads up
> to
> not quote if you do not know the facts which could
> cause someone to do very bad things to their motor!
>
While I recognize you are _the_ man for motors, I was
off 20 deg. out of 360. The point about relying on
where the holes are (factory) drilled is accurate.
Sorry to anyone who is now drilling on a perfectly
good $1300 motor housing-- Jim is right, I should not
have given ball-park numbers, but as you noticed,
nobody responded to the original post.


Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 "CiviWithACord" DVD shows footage of my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?



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Discussion Starter #5
--- Bob Bath <[email protected]> wrote:

> While I recognize you are _the_ man for motors, I
> was
> off 20 deg. out of 360. The point about relying on
> where the holes are (factory) drilled is accurate.
> Sorry to anyone who is now drilling on a perfectly
> good $1300 motor housing-- Jim is right, I should
> not
> have given ball-park numbers, but as you noticed,
> nobody responded to the original post.

Hey Bob

First off hope I didn't sound snooty, it was more that
I was rushing to get it out and didn't proof read it
8^)
I was out of town this weekend and didn't get any
emails time and I was running late this morning. With
that said here's a little more info FWIW.

Now 20 degrees (out of 360) doesn't sound like a lot
but at 45 degrees the motor starts to pivot toward
rotating the other direction. If one were to 1/4 turn
their motors commutator end plate (4 terminaled motor,
leads in plate mind you) the motor would rotate the
other direction and would be the same as if you'd
switch the battery cables on the two "A" terminals.

Anyway, I hope you didn't take offence, sometimes that
EVil twin thing takes hold and I blast off as if
EVeryone were a friend 8^)

Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric




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Discussion Starter #8
Joseph T. wrote:

> "For Hondas (most anyway) you'd need to rotate the commutator plate
> till the brushes fell on the other side of the line."
>
> This is from Jim's website page that he showed above. The thing is, it
> says to rotate the brushes until it fell on the other side of the
> line. So when you, Jim, said...
>
> "it's about 10 degrees for CCWDE rotation and less, at about
> 7 degrees for CWDE (Honda rotation)."
>
> ...so really you're actually turning the brushes 353 degrees???

No: 17 degrees. For "normal" rotation the endbell will be advanced 10
degrees to one side of neutral; for "honda" rotation, the endbell needs
to be rotated 10 degrees *back* to neutral, and then a further 7
degrees.

Cheers,

Roger.

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Discussion Starter #9
--- "Joseph T. " <[email protected]> wrote:

> ...so really you're actually turning the brushes 353
> degrees???


Hey Joseph

No, not EVen close, lol. EVery ADC 8" and 9" that
I've seen comes with pre-drilled CE plate mounting
holes (although they don't always tap them with
threads) These would appear as four sets of holes
grouped into three hole groups, each group 90 degrees
from each other, for a total of 12 holes.

The middle hole of each group is the neutral hole.
When timing a motor you always move the CE plate
opposite the motors intended rotation. If looking at
the drive shaft and you wanted to advance the motor
for CCWDE (DE stands for drive end) then you would
move it CW.

These holes are not always equal distances. The ADC
8's are opposite the ADC9's, meaning when looking at
them the CCW timing holes are about 3/4" from the
nuetral hole with the CW timing hole at less than
1/2". If you compare that to the ADC9's it's just the
reverse 1/2" for CWDE and around 3/4" for CW. FWIW
the Warp motors are set at 12.5 degrees for either
direction, which allows it to take a higher voltage
but probably looses a little Eff wise.

In general 10 degrees is a time tested advance having
been applied to many a motor brand, but this can
differ depending on what voltage and current one is
using with Wayland being at an extreem 15 degrees.
Even this is just a little (less than an inch).

I'll grab some pics of the edge of the housing to show
what I'm talking about and put it up at the site if I
can remember 8^o

Anyway it's just a little move one way or the other
with the middle hole being nuetral. If you're
planning on drilling your own then calc out 10 degrees
and tranfer punch mark where to drill 8^)

I think I may have missed some of this thread but hope
this helps. As a final note, for a fair amount of
people who are getting the small MC type modded lift
motors I'll give them a 5 and 10 degree hole placement
as many of them plan to start at a mild voltage but
then upgrade to a higher voltage when funds allow.

Hope this helps
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric


On 9/24/07, Jim Husted
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > --- Bob Bath <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > While I recognize you are _the_ man for motors,
> I
> > > was
> > > off 20 deg. out of 360. The point about relying
> on
> > > where the holes are (factory) drilled is
> accurate.
> > > Sorry to anyone who is now drilling on a
> perfectly
> > > good $1300 motor housing-- Jim is right, I
> should
> > > not
> > > have given ball-park numbers, but as you
> noticed,
> > > nobody responded to the original post.
> >
> > Hey Bob
> >
> > First off hope I didn't sound snooty, it was more
> that
> > I was rushing to get it out and didn't proof read
> it
> > 8^)
> > I was out of town this weekend and didn't get any
> > emails time and I was running late this morning.
> With
> > that said here's a little more info FWIW.
> >
> > Now 20 degrees (out of 360) doesn't sound like a
> lot
> > but at 45 degrees the motor starts to pivot toward
> > rotating the other direction. If one were to 1/4
> turn
> > their motors commutator end plate (4 terminaled
> motor,
> > leads in plate mind you) the motor would rotate
> the
> > other direction and would be the same as if you'd
> > switch the battery cables on the two "A"
> terminals.
> >
> > Anyway, I hope you didn't take offence, sometimes
> that
> > EVil twin thing takes hold and I blast off as if
> > EVeryone were a friend 8^)
> >
> > Cya
> > Jim Husted
> > Hi-Torque Electric
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights
> and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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