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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know the trick to getting the stock temperature sensor out of an
Advanced DC 9" motor (FB1-4001A)?

The stock sensor is supposed to be an idiot switch sensor (closes when too
hot) and I want to replace it with a thermistor that will drive my del Sol's
existing analog dash gauge for engine temperature.

The sensor is two wires coming out of a hole in the motor case. The wires
were sealed in with silicone caulk or something similar. I've removed the
sealant and the wires now move in and out, but pulling on them as hard as I
dare hasn't removed the sensor. I'm stumped.

Any hints or tips?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Mike

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I have not actually seen where or how the original switch is attached, but it seems likely it has been epoxied (or some such thing) in place and would be hard to remove without motor disassembly. You could add your thermistor to the brush assembly. It's probably not the exact same temperature as the location of the original switch, but in relative terms give you an idea of how hot your motor is getting. I have a temperature controlled switch placed in this area on my 6.7 inch ADC motor to turn on/off my external blower and have been very happy with the results.
damon
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 13:45:22 -0700
> Subject: [EVDL] ADC Temperature Sensor
>
> Does anyone know the trick to getting the stock temperature sensor out of an
> Advanced DC 9" motor (FB1-4001A)?
>
> The stock sensor is supposed to be an idiot switch sensor (closes when too
> hot) and I want to replace it with a thermistor that will drive my del Sol's
> existing analog dash gauge for engine temperature.
>
> The sensor is two wires coming out of a hole in the motor case. The wires
> were sealed in with silicone caulk or something similar. I've removed the
> sealant and the wires now move in and out, but pulling on them as hard as I
> dare hasn't removed the sensor. I'm stumped.
>
> Any hints or tips?
>
> Thanks for any help you can provide.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It was said before that the original overtemp switch
is almost as good as useless.
In serious overload situations it does not close
until long after damage has been done.
The first thing to overheat (due to lowest mass)
is the brush assembly, but the overtemp switch
is located somewhere near the stator windings
which typically heat up much slower than the
brushes in cases of sudden overload.
Suggestions I have seen to improve this is to
drill a small hole in the back of one of the
actual brushes and attach the sensor inside it.
Another approach could be to attach the sensor
to the brush housing.

Hope this helps,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Mike Nickerson
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 2:15 AM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: [EVDL] ADC Temperature Sensor

Does anyone know the trick to getting the stock temperature sensor out
of an Advanced DC 9" motor (FB1-4001A)?

The stock sensor is supposed to be an idiot switch sensor (closes when
too
hot) and I want to replace it with a thermistor that will drive my del
Sol's existing analog dash gauge for engine temperature.

The sensor is two wires coming out of a hole in the motor case. The
wires were sealed in with silicone caulk or something similar. I've
removed the sealant and the wires now move in and out, but pulling on
them as hard as I dare hasn't removed the sensor. I'm stumped.

Any hints or tips?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Mike

_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hello Mike,

Some sensors may be epoxy to the inside case of the motor for a better heat
transfer, some are embedded in the field windings and there are types that
are embedded into the brushes.

You will have to pull the armature from the motor case. I design a motor
stand that is bench height made out of wood four by fours that are bolted
together. This stand allows me to assembly the motor coupler, adapter
plate, and transmission on a open cross members that allow for you to work
from above and below the assembly.

I also have additional wood cross members that I can place on this motor
stand when I need to pull the armature, the armature can be pull out in a
straight line on to these supports.

The motor, transmission and rotor supports has radius cut out to match the
curves of these units.

To remove the rotor, you only have to remove the end plate that faces the
drive end. Remove the brush covers and pull back the brushes so it clears
the communtator. Remove the drive end endplate and slide out the armature
on to the supports which keeps it in the exact level.

Go to a motor shop and pick up some motor insulator paper that looks like
stiff varnish plastic. After you pull the drive end plate off the motor.
Slide this paper into the motor between the rotor and field shoes. This
allows the rotor to rest on this paper as you slide out the rotor.

As you pull out the armature, note the front brush end motor shaft as it
pulls out the bearing socket. The bearings are press on and the bearings
will come out with the motor shaft. Pull the shaft out enough but not way
out yet, as there will be spring washers between the bearing face and
bearing socket. Sometimes these spring washers by stay in the bearing
socket or may come out with the motor shaft. If you see them coming out,
remove them from the motor shaft and not the positions on how there are
install. There may be two spring washers stack together with the crown of
the springs washers facing each other.

After you secure the spring washers, then slide out the rotor on the rotor
cross member. The motor stand frame should have enough length so you can
clear the rotor and cross member, so you can inspect the inside of the
motor.

If you see the sensors epoxy to the inside of the motor case, they may have
male push on 90 degree wire connectors. If this is so, then just unplug the
wires. You could leave these sensors in place and epoxy in the new ones.

If the sensors are embedded into the field windings which my motor has in
addition to the embedded cases ones. Just cut the wires at the wire splice,
cap the end of the wires with a glass tape and motor varnish and tie the
wire back with motor tie string which you can get at a motor shop. Do not
use heat shrink caps and plastic wire ties, un-less they are design for over
200 C.

The epoxy is a high temperature potting compound that we normally use to
seal motor entrances. You can also get this compound from the motor shops.
When using this type of compound, make sure you clean the contact surface of
the housing, rough up the surface with a deep criss cross pattern and clean
it again. Clean the sensor housing with alcohol and do not touch it again
with your fingers, as it will leave your skin on it and will not make a good
contact.

This compound is a slow drying type, which is better because it will infuse
into the motor case deeper then a quick drying type which only attaches to
the surface. Place a wood support against this sensor to apply pressure
while drying for 12 hours or more.

Roland








----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nickerson" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 12:45 PM
Subject: [EVDL] ADC Temperature Sensor


> Does anyone know the trick to getting the stock temperature sensor out of
> an
> Advanced DC 9" motor (FB1-4001A)?
>
> The stock sensor is supposed to be an idiot switch sensor (closes when too
> hot) and I want to replace it with a thermistor that will drive my del
> Sol's
> existing analog dash gauge for engine temperature.
>
> The sensor is two wires coming out of a hole in the motor case. The wires
> were sealed in with silicone caulk or something similar. I've removed the
> sealant and the wires now move in and out, but pulling on them as hard as
> I
> dare hasn't removed the sensor. I'm stumped.
>
> Any hints or tips?
>
> Thanks for any help you can provide.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks everyone for the great ideas. I think I'll tuck Roland's
instructions aside for the time I have a big enough project to warranty
taking the motor apart. I don't think the temperature sensor is important
enough to get me to pull the motor and take it apart. I do like the idea of
attaching my thermistor to the brush assembly. That is pretty accessible so
I'll see what I can do with that. Meanwhile, I probably should seal back up
the hole for the existing sensor. It is mainly for next summer that I would
like the temperature gauge working. My motor got rather warm to the touch
during the drive home with outside ambient of 100F, but I couldn't tell
during the drive how hot it was getting.

Mike


> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 13:45:22 -0700
> Subject: [EVDL] ADC Temperature Sensor
>
> Does anyone know the trick to getting the stock temperature sensor out
> of an Advanced DC 9" motor (FB1-4001A)?
>
> The stock sensor is supposed to be an idiot switch sensor (closes when
> too
> hot) and I want to replace it with a thermistor that will drive my del
> Sol's existing analog dash gauge for engine temperature.
>
> The sensor is two wires coming out of a hole in the motor case. The
> wires were sealed in with silicone caulk or something similar. I've
> removed the sealant and the wires now move in and out, but pulling on
> them as hard as I dare hasn't removed the sensor. I'm stumped.
>


_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Warm or even hot too the touch is usually fine. If you start smelling it then it's time to take action.
damon

> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 01:05:59 -0700
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] ADC Temperature Sensor
>
> Thanks everyone for the great ideas. I think I'll tuck Roland's
> instructions aside for the time I have a big enough project to warranty
> taking the motor apart. I don't think the temperature sensor is important
> enough to get me to pull the motor and take it apart. I do like the idea of
> attaching my thermistor to the brush assembly. That is pretty accessible so
> I'll see what I can do with that. Meanwhile, I probably should seal back up
> the hole for the existing sensor. It is mainly for next summer that I would
> like the temperature gauge working. My motor got rather warm to the touch
> during the drive home with outside ambient of 100F, but I couldn't tell
> during the drive how hot it was getting.
>
> Mike


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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm not sure, but it does. I think it's because the field has to warm up
> first, and that in turn warms up the air. The heat is produced deep
> inside the windings, where the embedded temperature sensor sees it. I
> guess it takes a little longer for the heat to move to the surface, and
> then a bit more for the air to pick it up.
>

There's always a temperature-delta when moving heat around. If the
radiators in my house only heated up to 68 degrees I'd freeze my ass
off.

--
Martin K.

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