After many years of procrastinating, I'm about to embark on my first
conversion. I had a choice of cars to convert:
1) my Holden VK Commodore Station Wagon
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_VK_Commodore), as the ICE is
clapped out. Advantages are heaps of space for batteries (in engine
bay and under rear floor), vast supply of relatively cheap parts for
repair. Disadvantages is it's a heavy car, and it's auto, so I'd
need to source a manual gearbox (not difficult or expensive, but a
small hassle).
2) my Holden TX Gemini Sedan
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Gemini#TX_.281975.E2.80.931977.29).
Advantages are that it's small and light, and handles well. Engine
bay is remarkably large for such a small car, and the boot is very
deep, so could put batteries in there as well. Disadvantages are
lack of 'firewall' between cabin and boot (the fuel tank is behind
the rear seats, bad design), and has already been stolen once.
In both cases, Registration here in Queensland is significantly lower
for Hybrids/EV's than ICE's, to the point I'd be saving about $600/yr
if I converted the Commodore, and $400/yr if I converted the Gemini
(Registration in Queensland includes Compulsory Third Party
Insurance), a not-insignificant saving.
However, neither car is driven much. I live close enough to work to
ride my bicycle (and my single-gear second bike is also in line for a
conversion) or walk in a pinch, and it takes nearly as long to drive
as ride. So the cost/benefit just isn't there, if one excludes the
threat posed by Peak Oil. So I've procrastinated.
Another opportunity presented itself: My Partners' family is skating
on the edge of solvency. Her mother spends about $60.week in LPG,
mostly for work, but some for her 'ministering' (religion). This is
about half of what she actually earns, but they _need_ that
additional $60/wk. She uses a 4th Generation Ford Falcon
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_(Australia)#Fourth_generation_.281979.E2.80.931999.29).
My Partner drives a Ford KE Laser
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Laser#Australia). There is also a
Daewoo Lanos in the backyard, parked for no reason other than it was
barely beginning to have issues, and when a early Daewoo starts to
have issues they go downhill pretty quickly.
1) Falcon. Similar to the Commodore, but bigger and squarer. Aero
efficiency would be awful. In regular use.
2) Laser. Similar to the Gemini. In regular use, short trips.
3) Daewoo. Similar to the Gemini. Parked. FWD.
There's little point in converting the Laser, as it doesn't do much
more travelling than my cars. This leaves the Falcon and the
Daewoo. The Falcon is a daily driver, doing a minimum of 18km,
mostly at 100km/h (you basically drive out of the yard and right onto
the highway interchange, and drive off the highway just a kilometre
or two from her work). The size of the Falcon isn't actually needed,
as it's usually a single occupant and doesn't haul much. In any
case, the Daewoo is a hatchback, so can carry just as much.
Everything seems to be pointing to using the Daewoo to replace the
Falcon. It can carry almost as much, can be converted while the
other cars stay on the road, is lighter in weight, and is almost
certainly more aerodynamic. Now for the calculations:
Wanting 50km range to 100% DOD. This allows for the 40-odd
kilometres each day at highway speeds as well for a quick run around
town and a little bit of reserve. On top of that, the car can be
charged twice a day (at home between shifts). The small delta
between useage and range means it might encourage some conservation
and prior planning. If I set up a 50km pack (at 100% DOD), then I
can tell them they've only got 40km range, safe in the knowledge
that, even though they'll push the range as far as they can (within
the limits of their driving habits), they've got an 'emergency
reserve'. If I tell them the pack is 50km but they can only use 40,
they'll use 45 all the time. If the pack is recharged between
shifts, it'll only get 20km taken out of it at a time.
Assuming 300wH/km (conservative estimate), 50km range is some 15,000wH.
Using 60aH cells, that's some 80-odd cells? Which means a nominal
voltage of 256V if in a single string. While that's good to keep the
wire thickness down, there's not many DC controllers that I'm aware
of that can handle that, so maybe better to put them as parallel
strings of 128V each.
I'd like to have Regen, because this family seems to have a genetic
predisposition against driving efficiency. The accelerator is on or
off, as are the brakes, so the concept of using momentum as a
range-extender is not going to cross their minds. Having both fixed
and variable Regen would also be good (set fixed Regen to a certain
amount, and have a dial on the dash to increase the regen on demand).
I've estimated the cost of the battery pack at some AU$6,500 (plus
GST, Duty, BMS, etc), give or take, using prismatic cells. Avoiding
Thundersky if possible, due to their reputation. I would like to use
K2 cells, but that pumps the cost up to some $10k, and I'd still need
a BMS on top, and I'd need all the cells welded together. Once the
cells are all purchased and working they can go in any follow-on
conversion, and they're the largest expense. At $60/week in fuel,
the pack would pay for itself in savings in just over two years (more
like four if you allow for doubling the household electricity use by
some $400/qtr). I'm trying to keep the cost of the conversion down
as much as I can, because my Partners family is skating on the edge
of solvency. They have to change something, and the fuel bill is my
first practical target (I've made other suggestions, and they've all
been dismissed for one reason or another). My Partners father is
also very interested in EV's as he's keen to build one to take to the
track or strip, but he can't afford it, so this is sort of two birds
with one stone, as I can get him on-board in support. I could pay
for the conversion (and probably will stump up the cash initially),
but I've got a house to build, so can't go throwing money
around. Besides which, I'd like to be able to afford my own
conversion in a year or two as well. With luck, I might be able to
increase the size of the pack down the track, and they can get rid of
a second car.
I'd like to use AC equipment. For highway usage the benefit in
extended range is negligible due to the single stop at the end, but
around town it'd be handy. The AC50-1 setup
(http://www.evparts.com/products/street-vehicle/motors--dot/48-to-96-volt-street-vehicle-motors/mt5615.htm)
looks good, but has a 108V limit. This means lowering the pack
voltage some more, which means more parallel strings or fewer, bigger
cells. I'd like to be able to afford some Siemens gear like Victor
sells, but that's out of the price (and performance) range this time around.
With DC, there's the trusty Netgain or ADC motors
(http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?category=1). There is also the
Kostovs (including that sweet dual Kostov
(http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?product=MOT-KOS-R20D) that would
make for a great strip car, but is out of the running for this
conversion). Unfortunately, EV-Works doesn't sell controllers over
72V except for the EVnetics (also available from Grassroots for a
thousand dollars cheaper, although EV-Works price may not have been
changed to reflect the higher $Aussie), and that's performance-oriented.
Grassroots also list a 'kit' with a WarP 9" with a Kelly controller
with Regen (http://www.grassrootsev.com/cpacks.htm). I thought
Series-wound motors didn't do regen? In any case, such a kit is over
a thousand dollars cheaper than the AC kit from evparts (and the
evparts kit doesn't include a charger etc).
Of course, there's also BLDC motors. So many choices.
Can any of the regulars here point me in the direction of a
_relativly_ low-cost (I'm under no illusion that a conversion will be
as cheap as just dropping in a replacement carby ICE), or provide
further advice/critisism on what I've written above, or my
calculations? Any help is much appreciated. Cheers.
_______________________________________________
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conversion. I had a choice of cars to convert:
1) my Holden VK Commodore Station Wagon
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_VK_Commodore), as the ICE is
clapped out. Advantages are heaps of space for batteries (in engine
bay and under rear floor), vast supply of relatively cheap parts for
repair. Disadvantages is it's a heavy car, and it's auto, so I'd
need to source a manual gearbox (not difficult or expensive, but a
small hassle).
2) my Holden TX Gemini Sedan
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Gemini#TX_.281975.E2.80.931977.29).
Advantages are that it's small and light, and handles well. Engine
bay is remarkably large for such a small car, and the boot is very
deep, so could put batteries in there as well. Disadvantages are
lack of 'firewall' between cabin and boot (the fuel tank is behind
the rear seats, bad design), and has already been stolen once.
In both cases, Registration here in Queensland is significantly lower
for Hybrids/EV's than ICE's, to the point I'd be saving about $600/yr
if I converted the Commodore, and $400/yr if I converted the Gemini
(Registration in Queensland includes Compulsory Third Party
Insurance), a not-insignificant saving.
However, neither car is driven much. I live close enough to work to
ride my bicycle (and my single-gear second bike is also in line for a
conversion) or walk in a pinch, and it takes nearly as long to drive
as ride. So the cost/benefit just isn't there, if one excludes the
threat posed by Peak Oil. So I've procrastinated.
Another opportunity presented itself: My Partners' family is skating
on the edge of solvency. Her mother spends about $60.week in LPG,
mostly for work, but some for her 'ministering' (religion). This is
about half of what she actually earns, but they _need_ that
additional $60/wk. She uses a 4th Generation Ford Falcon
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_(Australia)#Fourth_generation_.281979.E2.80.931999.29).
My Partner drives a Ford KE Laser
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Laser#Australia). There is also a
Daewoo Lanos in the backyard, parked for no reason other than it was
barely beginning to have issues, and when a early Daewoo starts to
have issues they go downhill pretty quickly.
1) Falcon. Similar to the Commodore, but bigger and squarer. Aero
efficiency would be awful. In regular use.
2) Laser. Similar to the Gemini. In regular use, short trips.
3) Daewoo. Similar to the Gemini. Parked. FWD.
There's little point in converting the Laser, as it doesn't do much
more travelling than my cars. This leaves the Falcon and the
Daewoo. The Falcon is a daily driver, doing a minimum of 18km,
mostly at 100km/h (you basically drive out of the yard and right onto
the highway interchange, and drive off the highway just a kilometre
or two from her work). The size of the Falcon isn't actually needed,
as it's usually a single occupant and doesn't haul much. In any
case, the Daewoo is a hatchback, so can carry just as much.
Everything seems to be pointing to using the Daewoo to replace the
Falcon. It can carry almost as much, can be converted while the
other cars stay on the road, is lighter in weight, and is almost
certainly more aerodynamic. Now for the calculations:
Wanting 50km range to 100% DOD. This allows for the 40-odd
kilometres each day at highway speeds as well for a quick run around
town and a little bit of reserve. On top of that, the car can be
charged twice a day (at home between shifts). The small delta
between useage and range means it might encourage some conservation
and prior planning. If I set up a 50km pack (at 100% DOD), then I
can tell them they've only got 40km range, safe in the knowledge
that, even though they'll push the range as far as they can (within
the limits of their driving habits), they've got an 'emergency
reserve'. If I tell them the pack is 50km but they can only use 40,
they'll use 45 all the time. If the pack is recharged between
shifts, it'll only get 20km taken out of it at a time.
Assuming 300wH/km (conservative estimate), 50km range is some 15,000wH.
Using 60aH cells, that's some 80-odd cells? Which means a nominal
voltage of 256V if in a single string. While that's good to keep the
wire thickness down, there's not many DC controllers that I'm aware
of that can handle that, so maybe better to put them as parallel
strings of 128V each.
I'd like to have Regen, because this family seems to have a genetic
predisposition against driving efficiency. The accelerator is on or
off, as are the brakes, so the concept of using momentum as a
range-extender is not going to cross their minds. Having both fixed
and variable Regen would also be good (set fixed Regen to a certain
amount, and have a dial on the dash to increase the regen on demand).
I've estimated the cost of the battery pack at some AU$6,500 (plus
GST, Duty, BMS, etc), give or take, using prismatic cells. Avoiding
Thundersky if possible, due to their reputation. I would like to use
K2 cells, but that pumps the cost up to some $10k, and I'd still need
a BMS on top, and I'd need all the cells welded together. Once the
cells are all purchased and working they can go in any follow-on
conversion, and they're the largest expense. At $60/week in fuel,
the pack would pay for itself in savings in just over two years (more
like four if you allow for doubling the household electricity use by
some $400/qtr). I'm trying to keep the cost of the conversion down
as much as I can, because my Partners family is skating on the edge
of solvency. They have to change something, and the fuel bill is my
first practical target (I've made other suggestions, and they've all
been dismissed for one reason or another). My Partners father is
also very interested in EV's as he's keen to build one to take to the
track or strip, but he can't afford it, so this is sort of two birds
with one stone, as I can get him on-board in support. I could pay
for the conversion (and probably will stump up the cash initially),
but I've got a house to build, so can't go throwing money
around. Besides which, I'd like to be able to afford my own
conversion in a year or two as well. With luck, I might be able to
increase the size of the pack down the track, and they can get rid of
a second car.
I'd like to use AC equipment. For highway usage the benefit in
extended range is negligible due to the single stop at the end, but
around town it'd be handy. The AC50-1 setup
(http://www.evparts.com/products/street-vehicle/motors--dot/48-to-96-volt-street-vehicle-motors/mt5615.htm)
looks good, but has a 108V limit. This means lowering the pack
voltage some more, which means more parallel strings or fewer, bigger
cells. I'd like to be able to afford some Siemens gear like Victor
sells, but that's out of the price (and performance) range this time around.
With DC, there's the trusty Netgain or ADC motors
(http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?category=1). There is also the
Kostovs (including that sweet dual Kostov
(http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?product=MOT-KOS-R20D) that would
make for a great strip car, but is out of the running for this
conversion). Unfortunately, EV-Works doesn't sell controllers over
72V except for the EVnetics (also available from Grassroots for a
thousand dollars cheaper, although EV-Works price may not have been
changed to reflect the higher $Aussie), and that's performance-oriented.
Grassroots also list a 'kit' with a WarP 9" with a Kelly controller
with Regen (http://www.grassrootsev.com/cpacks.htm). I thought
Series-wound motors didn't do regen? In any case, such a kit is over
a thousand dollars cheaper than the AC kit from evparts (and the
evparts kit doesn't include a charger etc).
Of course, there's also BLDC motors. So many choices.
Can any of the regulars here point me in the direction of a
_relativly_ low-cost (I'm under no illusion that a conversion will be
as cheap as just dropping in a replacement carby ICE), or provide
further advice/critisism on what I've written above, or my
calculations? Any help is much appreciated. Cheers.
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Talk about a ponzi scheme!
