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Discussion Starter #1
http://ozarksfirst.com/content/fulltext/?cid=12364

Claims 150 miles on lead acid. Just jam-packed full of batteries? I
haven't had time to watch the video yet, but it sounds like he's done
something fancier than the usual conversion. Maybe the experts can
weigh in on this.

Ben

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Discussion Starter #3
What would the range be at 50% DOD and at 60 mph? I could claim my EV can
do 167 miles at 100% DOD which would be all non-stop city driving at about
20 mph. Actual range of my EV at 60 mph is 39.5 miles at 50% DOD.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 7:09 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Another EV in the news


> http://ozarksfirst.com/content/fulltext/?cid=12364
>
> Claims 150 miles on lead acid. Just jam-packed full of batteries? I
> haven't had time to watch the video yet, but it sounds like he's done
> something fancier than the usual conversion. Maybe the experts can
> weigh in on this.
>
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #4
Here's a another article about it with more photos...
http://tinyurl.com/39h6l9

-Dave
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com

Ben wrote:
> http://ozarksfirst.com/content/fulltext/?cid=12364
>
> Claims 150 miles on lead acid. Just jam-packed full of batteries? I
> haven't had time to watch the video yet, but it sounds like he's done
> something fancier than the usual conversion. Maybe the experts can
> weigh in on this.
>
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Discussion Starter #5
On 4 Oct 2007 at 11:58, Dave Stensland wrote:

> Here's a another article about it with more photos...
> http://tinyurl.com/39h6l9

This statement, "'In order to get a patent on something like this, we had to
make the government happy about the road tax,' Luedtke said," sets off my BS
detector. Last I heard, that wasn't a qualification for granting a patent.

Also, it might be the photo, but I think those battery interconnects look a
little light for a Caravan at 96 volts.

I'm not sure that pieces like this in the media do much for the EV cause.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: [EVDL] Another EV in the News

I watched the video on this EV several times.
It appears that the motor is running at a constant speed and
acceleration is produced through the cv transmission. Wouldn't this
greatly increase the range if it eliminates the high amperage take-off
required in most ev's?
Bill

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: [EVDL] Another EV in the News

This story caused my bullshit detector to jump off the desk and catch fire.
His Dodge Caravan goes 500 miles per charge on sixteen golf cart
batteries (they look like Trojan T-105s). And there are other flaws
and omissions in this story.

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Discussion Starter #11
[EVDL] Another EV in the News

Remember guys, have you EVer seen a news reporter get
everything down correct, and not goof up a story when
they actually sit down and write the article from his
notes? They seldom if EVer ask the person who was
interviewed to proof the article.... So instead of
bashing the guy, maybe some of you guys in the know,
could actually call him, and have a conversation about
the conversion. Get him to enter it in the EVALBUM.COM
site, and have him join the EVDL list.



--- Tom Shay <[email protected]> wrote:

> This story caused my bullshit detector to jump off
> the desk and catch fire.
> His Dodge Caravan goes 500 miles per charge on
> sixteen golf cart
> batteries (they look like Trojan T-105s). And there
> are other flaws
> and omissions in this story.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #12
Re: [EVDL] Another EV in the News

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Discussion Starter #13
Re: [EVDL] Another EV in the News

Tom, the story said that the van goes 150 miles on Lead-acid batteries,
not 500 miles. The 500-600 mile estimates were for a Li-ion pack.
Still, like you, I'm having trouble seeing how a new motor/transmission
combo could *drastically* increase mileage. Even if you take the T105's
at their nameplate value of 225Ah, disregarding Peukerts, and run them
to 100% DOD, he'd still have to be getting less than 150Wh/mile.

Bill Dennis


Tom Shay wrote:
> This story caused my bullshit detector to jump off the desk and catch fire.
> His Dodge Caravan goes 500 miles per charge on sixteen golf cart
> batteries (they look like Trojan T-105s). And there are other flaws
> and omissions in this story.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: [EVDL] Another EV in the News

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Discussion Starter #15
Re: [EVDL] Another EV in the News

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Discussion Starter #16
Re: [EVDL] Another EV in the News

This EV generates lift that exceeds drag, from ambient air:

http://www.solarsailor.com/

Tks

locK
human-electric hybrid
Toronto



--- Marty Hewes <[email protected]> wrote:

> Of course there is a hitch. If you were driving with the wind, the
> net wind =

> speed would be lower, possibly zero. If you were driving into the
> wind, I =

> think you'd have significant drag. A wind turbine doesn't have to
> use =

> energy to counteract the wind drag, it's stuck in the ground, and
> drag =

> doesn't go up linearly with speed, it goes up faster, but the turbine
> output =

> goes up linearly, right? You might hit a net loss at higher winds? =

> There =

> must be some data out there from those wind powered boats that have
> been in =

> the news.
> =

> Marty
> ----- Original Message ----- =

> From: "GWMobile" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Cc: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 12:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another EV in the News
> =

> =

> > There is one way this could work without violating physics - if it
> > harnesses not just the wind from motion but actual wind thaat
> existes
> > without the car motion.
> >
> > After all landsailing races do this with a sail and haul ass at
> over
> > 70mph.
> >
> > If the wind recovery is charging a battery that powers a car
> instead of
> > going into a sail it could conceivably work.
> >
> > However it would be subject to the presence of regular wind OR****
> > The wind from passing powered cars which could itself put some
> power
> > into the car.
> >
> > Therefore it IS possible if you have efficient enough wind turbine
> that
> > capture all wind and not just the wind from the motion of the car.
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> >
Ben wrote:
> >> I'd love to hear his side of it. Here's another interesting
> article
> >> about an invention of his - sounds like he's claiming to recover
> >> energy from the "the wind power he felt one day while driving with
> his
> >> hand hanging out the car window." He claims his system captures
> >> generates more power than it needs to propel the moped, which
> "would
> >> seemingly violate laws of physics." Hate to say it -- it does.
> >>
> >> I know reporters get facts wrong, but this guy does sound like a
> >> quack. Google his name and you'll find other patents on ideas he's
> >> trying to sell -- like the magnetic shock absorber he claims can
> be
> >> warranted for a thousand years.
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> New Electric Motor
> >>
> >>
> >> The Associated Press
> >> RACINE, Wis. =E2=80=94 High gasoline prices don't bother Daren Luedtke.
> He
> >> prefers tooling around on an electric-powered, self-regenerating
> >> moped. "It recharges the battery pack as you go down the highway,"
> >> said Luedtke of his invention, which he believes could replace the
> >> internal combustion engine.
> >> Luedtke, whose company is called Magna-Motor Inc., has spent
> the
> >> past 18 months trying to harness the wind power he felt one day
> while
> >> driving with his hand hanging out the car window. The result is an
> >> electric-powered moped, with a trailer and generator attached to
> the
> >> back.
> >> When mounted in a car, the electric motor would replace the
> >> standard internal combustion engine, the battery pack would mount
> on
> >> the drive train and the generator would be near the radiator,
> Luedtke
> >> said. With the exception of the bearings in the generator, Luedtke
> >> claims the vehicle would be virtually repair-free. "Every 10 years
> or
> >> so, you'd have to take it in for maintenance," he said.
> >> Luedtke said his invention generates more energy than it uses
> to
> >> propel the moped. That would seemingly violate laws of physics.
> >> "It'd be great if he did. It'd be worth millions and millions
> of
> >> dollars," said John Wheeldon, an adjunct professor in the
> Milwaukee
> >> School of Engineering's electrical engineering and computer
> science
> >> program.
> >> Luedtke has applied for a patent on the charging system. His
> hope
> >> is to strike a deal with a major car manufacturer, despite the
> fact
> >> that electric cars have had mixed success on the market so far.
> >> In January, General Motors Corp. announced it was ending
> >> production of its electric car because of waning interest. The
> world's
> >> largest automaker said it would focus its efforts on a
> high-efficiency
> >> concept car powered by a fuel cell.
> >> Toyota announced plans last month to sell about 12,000 of its
> >> Prius gas-electric hybrid sedan in the next year. The Prius uses
> an
> >> electric motor and battery pack to boost mileage to about 50 mpg.
> >> Nonetheless, Luedtke is offering to convert existing cars to
> the
> >> system for individual consumers who are interested. He estimates a
> >> vehicle that has an electric motor would cost about $2,000 more
> than
> >> vehicles with internal combustion engines.
> >> "It may add $2,000 to the price of the car," Luedtke said.
> "But
> >> $2,000 of not having to put gas in it is a good investment, as far
> as
> >> I'm concerned."
> >>
> >> On 10/4/07, Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> Remember guys, have you EVer seen a news reporter get
> >>> everything down correct, and not goof up a story when
> >>> they actually sit down and write the article from his
> >>> notes? They seldom if EVer ask the person who was
> >>> interviewed to proof the article.... So instead of
> >>> bashing the guy, maybe some of you guys in the know,
> >>> could actually call him, and have a conversation about
> >>> the conversion. Get him to enter it in the EVALBUM.COM
> >>> site, and have him join the EVDL list.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- Tom Shay <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > This story caused my bullshit detector to jump off
> >>> > the desk and catch fire.
> >>> > His Dodge Caravan goes 500 miles per charge on
> >>> > sixteen golf cart
> >>> > batteries (they look like Trojan T-105s). And there
> >>> > are other flaws
> >>> > and omissions in this story.


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Discussion Starter #18
Re: [EVDL] Another EV in the News

Back to our original topic, I wrote an email to the inventor's company
(couldn't find a personal email, but it sounds like a small enough
operation that he should see the letter) requesting some more info,
and inviting him to join the discussion here on EVDL.

I asked a few questions that came to me while I was writing, but I'm
fairly new here so maybe I missed something obvious. If anyone else
wants to try their luck, I wrote to [email protected]

Tried my best to honestly express our skepticism without being rude -
hope I get a response.

---------------------
Hello,

The members of the Electric Vehicle Distribution List (EVDL --
http://www.evdl.org ) have had some pretty lively discussions this
past week trying to make some sense just what you've accomplished with
your new electric drive system. Obviously we are some of the last
people who would naysay about an electric drive solution, but there
obviously has been a little doubt about the claims -- you are stating
a rather incredible range from a rather small collection of common
lead acid batteries.

We were wondering if you would be willing to answer a few questions
and give some general information about your system (as you know, the
media often gets the facts wrong). I understand that you have some
patents on the associated technologies, and probably hope to
capitalize on this -- we really just want some general descriptions of
how the system operates, not the proprietary details.

Few thoughts off the top of my head:

1. Under what conditions did you achieve the 150 mile range? Speed,
terrain, depth of discharge at the end of the trip, etc.

2. What details can you share on your battery pack? Battery type,
voltage, capacity, etc

3. It sounds like the constant velocity transmission is key to your
claims -- How does this help you realize a longer range than you would
accomplish driving the EV through a standard transmission or directly
coupled to the drive shaft?

I'd appreciate any additional information you can provide. I'll pass
anything along to the EVDL, but it would also be wonderful if you'd be
willing to join our list for some open discussion about your EV.

We also have a site for the registration of electric vehicles, to
share information with peers and people interested in EVs - feel free
to register your prototype: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/

Thanks for your time,

Ben Robeson

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Discussion Starter #20
Re: [EVDL] Another EV in the News

Michael Perry wrote:
> Wasn't this the company that crossed the Atlantic... on solar power... and
> it only took them about 4 months? (Sailing ships did the same task something
> like 1000 years ago? In a few weeks and following the same route?)

No. They are not the same. You're thinking of the sun21 vessel and the
Swiss transatlantic21 Association which crossed to New York City in a
*very* round-about way earlier this year. I'm sure they could have taken
a more direct route and shortened their transit time considerably. Some
details are here...

http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/display.asp?dismode=article&artid=355

Cheers,
-Dave

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