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Discussion Starter #1
> Do lithiums ever emit explosive (or corrosive)
>gas,




>no its poision and flamable smells sweet like perfume


first they emit gas then they blow up a cell battery can cause the
same concussion as a hand grenade then the fire with toxic smoke.
lab cleanup was a bitch.

blast windows are required in most labs working with these little
units. as well as a vault to contain the parts from the blast





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Discussion Starter #2
Bill Dube wrote:

> If you get the LiFePO4 cells hot enough, by grossly over-charging or
> cell reverse-charging, for example, they will vent electrolyte. This
> is mix of stuff, but is mostly ethylene carbonate with a significant
> fraction of lithium hexaflourophosphate mixed in. It is flammable,
> and you should avoid breathing the vapors. It won't "poison" you, but
> if you breathe a lot of it at once it can harm your lungs.

I notice that when my car (45 x TS-LFP260) sits for a day or more with
the windows rolled up, there is a distinctive odor that could be
described as "sweet". The car sitting not in the sun but under a shed.
Cells are in the interior of the car. I never notice the odor under
other conditions. Usually, I leave at least the driver's window down
for ease of access of the instruments.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 57 days 12 hours 55 minutes

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Discussion Starter #3
If it smells like rubber cement, then you have a leaking cell somewhere.


At 02:54 PM 11/8/2010, you wrote:
>
Bill Dube wrote:
>
> > If you get the LiFePO4 cells hot enough, by grossly over-charging or
> > cell reverse-charging, for example, they will vent electrolyte. This
> > is mix of stuff, but is mostly ethylene carbonate with a significant
> > fraction of lithium hexaflourophosphate mixed in. It is flammable,
> > and you should avoid breathing the vapors. It won't "poison" you, but
> > if you breathe a lot of it at once it can harm your lungs.
>
>I notice that when my car (45 x TS-LFP260) sits for a day or more with
>the windows rolled up, there is a distinctive odor that could be
>described as "sweet". The car sitting not in the sun but under a shed.
>Cells are in the interior of the car. I never notice the odor under
>other conditions. Usually, I leave at least the driver's window down
>for ease of access of the instruments.
>
>--
>Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
>http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
>Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 57 days 12 hours 55 minutes
>
>_______________________________________________
>| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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Discussion Starter #4
Bill Dube wrote:
> If it smells like rubber cement, then you have a leaking cell somewhere.

Yeah, something like rubber cement, but not exactly.

I think I will just stick my head in the sand and hope the odor is
"normal". And wait for other symptoms.

I wonder how a shipping container full of TS-LFPs smells when it is
first opened on arrival in the USA?

BTW, as I just posted on the TS list, I am at about 225 cycles of about
50%. 13.5K miles.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 57 days 13 hours 58 minutes

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Discussion Starter #5
Willie McKemie <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> BTW, as I just posted on the TS list, I am at about 225 cycles of about
> 50%. 13.5K miles.
>
>
There's a ThunderSky list? I'd be curious to check it out; can you give a
reference? Any other battery lists like that?

How do you define a cycle, and how do you measure your 50% ?

tnx,

--
Dave
http://evalbum.com/2500
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Discussion Starter #6
> I wonder how a shipping container full of TS-LFPs smells when it is
> first opened on arrival in the USA?

When I picked up my TS cells in December several crates had to be
opened to find my order. I did not notice any odors. This particular
shipment also took longer clearing customs so they were crated up
about a month extra, too.

--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328

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Discussion Starter #7
Dave Hale wrote:

> There's a ThunderSky list? I'd be curious to check it out; can you give a
> reference? Any other battery lists like that?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThunderSky/

There probably are other battery lists, but none I'm aware of.

> How do you define a cycle, and how do you measure your 50% ?

A discharge-charge cycle. Assuming capacity of 260ah (though it's
easy to argue that the capacity is 280 or 300 ah), 50% would be 130ah.
As measured by a TBS meter. Our trips have mostly been about 60
miles and used about 120 ah. I consider our "fuel economy" to be about
2 ah/mile though about 1.9 is probably closer.

In case you're not familiar with the TBS, it accumulates amp-hours
rather than watt-hours. So, I quote what the TBS tells me. You set
the TBS to zero and "full" after a charge, then it accumulates ah as
they are used. When charging, the TBS accumulates back to zero or very
near. There is rarely ever a need to reset the meter to zero after the
initial zeroing.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 57 days 17 hours 01 minutes

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Discussion Starter #8
Do you have solid bars for interconnect straps? If so, you might have
broken the seal at the terminal for one or more cells. The straps
_must_ be flexible to allow thermal expansion, etc.

If you have an electronic leak detector like the kind they use for
air conditioning, it is likely that it will detect the electrolyte
vapors. Not certain, but likely.

Bill D.


At 03:59 PM 11/8/2010, you wrote:
>
Bill Dube wrote:
> > If it smells like rubber cement, then you have a leaking cell somewhere.
>
>Yeah, something like rubber cement, but not exactly.
>
>I think I will just stick my head in the sand and hope the odor is
>"normal". And wait for other symptoms.
>
>I wonder how a shipping container full of TS-LFPs smells when it is
>first opened on arrival in the USA?
>
>BTW, as I just posted on the TS list, I am at about 225 cycles of about
>50%. 13.5K miles.
>
>--
>Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
>http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
>Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 57 days 13 hours 58 minutes
>
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Discussion Starter #9
Bill Dube wrote:
> Do you have solid bars for interconnect straps? If so, you might have
> broken the seal at the terminal for one or more cells. The straps
> _must_ be flexible to allow thermal expansion, etc.

No, banks of cells are connected with multi-strand "regular" cable.
Within banks, cells are connected with the TS supplied multi leaf
bowed copper straps.

Thanks for the comments!

I had two spare cells, I've used them both plus one more. I'm waiting
for Dave Kois to supply a few more spares. The bad cells seem to have
been ruined by bad EVPower modules which I probably fried on hook up.
Since EVPower no longer wants to supply modules for 260 ah size cells,
I've been replacing bad ones with miniBMS modules. With good results.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 57 days 17 hours 54 minutes

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