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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I stumbled across EV's a few months ago, and am quite eager do my first
conversion. Due to cost restraints, I am stuck in the "can I do it
phase". It looks like the only hurdle I may have, is the requirement to
install an immobilizer. As of Sept 2007, Manitoba Public Insurance has
mandated the use of select immobilizers in vehicles deemed Most at Rick (95%
theft rate, I think). My concern is how the immobilizer works, buy cutting
power to the starter, ignition and fuel supply. So my question is, has
anyone installed any type of anti theft device device in their EV, and what
are the opinions on this?

Here is the list of MPI approved Immobilizers,
http://www.mpi.mb.ca/english/autotheft/TheftImmobilizers.html for more info.

*Approved immobilizers *

The following immobilizers have undergone extensive testing and have been
proven to meet the Canadian Theft Deterrent
Standard.<http://www.ibc.ca/en/Insurance_Crime/Prevention_Investigation/Immobilizers/IBC_Approved_Immobilizers.asp>
*Name of Product* *Manufacturer/Importer* Autowatch 329 TI PFK
Electronics Autowatch
573 PPi PFK Electronics Mastergard M6000 MasterGard Enterprises
Powerlock-Canada Ultimate Security Systems


Thanks,
Tyler
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Discussion Starter #3
Tyler,

I'd be tempted to select a donor vehicle that *wasn't* among those most
likely to get stolen! It seems that the imobilizer requirement would
then not apply.

Ralph


Tyler writes:
>
> Hello,
>
> I stumbled across EV's a few months ago, and am quite eager do my first
> conversion. Due to cost restraints, I am stuck in the "can I do it
> phase". It looks like the only hurdle I may have, is the requirement to
> install an immobilizer. As of Sept 2007, Manitoba Public Insurance has
> mandated the use of select immobilizers in vehicles deemed Most at Rick (95%
> theft rate, I think). My concern is how the immobilizer works, buy cutting
> power to the starter, ignition and fuel supply. So my question is, has
> anyone installed any type of anti theft device device in their EV, and what
> are the opinions on this?
>
> Here is the list of MPI approved Immobilizers,
> http://www.mpi.mb.ca/english/autotheft/TheftImmobilizers.html for more info.
>
> *Approved immobilizers *
>
> The following immobilizers have undergone extensive testing and have been
> proven to meet the Canadian Theft Deterrent
> Standard.<http://www.ibc.ca/en/Insurance_Crime/Prevention_Investigation/Immobilizers/IBC_Approved_Immobilizers.asp>
> *Name of Product* *Manufacturer/Importer* Autowatch 329 TI PFK
> Electronics Autowatch
> 573 PPi PFK Electronics Mastergard M6000 MasterGard Enterprises
> Powerlock-Canada Ultimate Security Systems
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tyler
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #4
Hello Tyler,

I have built cipher lock systems and install them in very high security
areas. So when I built my EV, I custom built a 52 switch cipher lock system
plus interface it with the standard 10 switch cipher lock unit.

I can pre select any number of switch actions that must be press in a exact
sequence or the vehicle will not be power up. If the switches are press
wrong, than you can have any alarm system activated or even put in a call to
your phone.

If the switches are press wrong, than you can program a time delay before
you can try again, or press a certain amount of switches to over ride the
time delay.

Also after the door is unlock, there is a certain amount of time for the
user to de-activate the security system or I can press the correct switches
to power up the EV which also de-activates the alarms.

If the vehicle is tilted too much, hood raise, hatch back opens, glass
broken, this will set off the alarms.

Normally for me, I only preset a small group of switches in the group of 52
switches if I am just park for a minute. If I have the vehicle park out of
site for a long time, then I will program it for the full effect.

In a EV, the cipher system, turns off the main battery power to the
controller by the use of two additional high voltage safety contactor, plus
a high voltage main contactor which is control by a group of plug in glass
12 volt relays which control by the motor controller.

Even if a person can raise the hood fast and cut the 12 volt battery cables,
it will still work which uses a separate chargeable battery or DC-DC
converter.

The motor controller 12 volt input control power is also control by another
12 volt glass plug in relay which is also control by solid state relay and
then control by the ignition switch which is control by a power pole on the
AC contactor if the main AC power plug is unplug from the EV.

You can keep interlocking all the circuits together to make a cipher system
and it's best to have a minor combination of switches to bypass this system,
that is mix in with a 52 button unit.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler" <[email protected]>
To: "EV" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:58 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Auto theft devices and EV's


> Hello,
>
> I stumbled across EV's a few months ago, and am quite eager do my first
> conversion. Due to cost restraints, I am stuck in the "can I do it
> phase". It looks like the only hurdle I may have, is the requirement to
> install an immobilizer. As of Sept 2007, Manitoba Public Insurance has
> mandated the use of select immobilizers in vehicles deemed Most at Rick
> (95%
> theft rate, I think). My concern is how the immobilizer works, buy
> cutting
> power to the starter, ignition and fuel supply. So my question is, has
> anyone installed any type of anti theft device device in their EV, and
> what
> are the opinions on this?
>
> Here is the list of MPI approved Immobilizers,
> http://www.mpi.mb.ca/english/autotheft/TheftImmobilizers.html for more
> info.
>
> *Approved immobilizers *
>
> The following immobilizers have undergone extensive testing and have been
> proven to meet the Canadian Theft Deterrent
> Standard.<http://www.ibc.ca/en/Insurance_Crime/Prevention_Investigation/Immobilizers/IBC_Approved_Immobilizers.asp>
> *Name of Product* *Manufacturer/Importer* Autowatch 329 TI PFK
> Electronics Autowatch
> 573 PPi PFK Electronics Mastergard M6000 MasterGard Enterprises
> Powerlock-Canada Ultimate Security Systems
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tyler
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Is it actually a requirement? The page you linked says that they offer a
$40/year discount for using an immobilizer. That may or may not be worth
the trouble if that's all it is.

Also, it indicates that the immobilizer must be installed by an authorized
dealer. May want to check with them to see if they'd even touch an EV. As
far as immobilization, you can do a lot of things, such as have it send a
high or low signal to the throttle pot input, since many controllers won't
enable if the pot is out of range.


Tim

----
From: "Tyler" <[email protected]>
To: "EV" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:58 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Auto theft devices and EV's


> Hello,
>
> I stumbled across EV's a few months ago, and am quite eager do my first
> conversion. Due to cost restraints, I am stuck in the "can I do it
> phase". It looks like the only hurdle I may have, is the requirement to
> install an immobilizer. As of Sept 2007, Manitoba Public Insurance has
> mandated the use of select immobilizers in vehicles deemed Most at Rick
> (95%
> theft rate, I think). My concern is how the immobilizer works, buy
> cutting
> power to the starter, ignition and fuel supply. So my question is, has
> anyone installed any type of anti theft device device in their EV, and
> what
> are the opinions on this?
>
> Here is the list of MPI approved Immobilizers,
> http://www.mpi.mb.ca/english/autotheft/TheftImmobilizers.html for more
> info.
>
> *Approved immobilizers *
_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #7
Are electric vehicles considered "Most at Risk"? I mean considering the
fact that a theif won't get far before running out of juice and all..

At any rate, simply cutting power to the main contactor will keep the
vehicle from going anywhere. How you do that is probably best kept a
secret.

> Hello,
>
> I stumbled across EV's a few months ago, and am quite eager do my first
> conversion. Due to cost restraints, I am stuck in the "can I do it
> phase". It looks like the only hurdle I may have, is the requirement to
> install an immobilizer. As of Sept 2007, Manitoba Public Insurance has
> mandated the use of select immobilizers in vehicles deemed Most at Rick
> (95%
> theft rate, I think). My concern is how the immobilizer works, buy
> cutting
> power to the starter, ignition and fuel supply. So my question is, has
> anyone installed any type of anti theft device device in their EV, and
> what
> are the opinions on this?
>
> Here is the list of MPI approved Immobilizers,
> http://www.mpi.mb.ca/english/autotheft/TheftImmobilizers.html for more
> info.
>
> *Approved immobilizers *
>
> The following immobilizers have undergone extensive testing and have been
> proven to meet the Canadian Theft Deterrent
> Standard.<http://www.ibc.ca/en/Insurance_Crime/Prevention_Investigation/Immobilizers/IBC_Approved_Immobilizers.asp>
> *Name of Product* *Manufacturer/Importer* Autowatch 329 TI PFK
> Electronics Autowatch
> 573 PPi PFK Electronics Mastergard M6000 MasterGard Enterprises
> Powerlock-Canada Ultimate Security Systems
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tyler
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.

_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #11
Hi, Tyler - very few theives would be interested in electrics at this point;
they don't know how to operate them, or take care of them, so stealing them
doesn't make sense. Of course, they could always strip the car of non-EV
components, assuming they're not afraid of getting shocked in the process
(due to ignorance)!

It is very easy, though, to put a switch in line with the contactor as a
safety - the main breaker will also suffice as a deterrent, if located in an
out of the way place.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler" <[email protected]>
To: "EV" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 5:58 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Auto theft devices and EV's


> Hello,
>
> I stumbled across EV's a few months ago, and am quite eager do my first
> conversion. Due to cost restraints, I am stuck in the "can I do it
> phase". It looks like the only hurdle I may have, is the requirement to
> install an immobilizer. As of Sept 2007, Manitoba Public Insurance has
> mandated the use of select immobilizers in vehicles deemed Most at Rick
> (95%
> theft rate, I think). My concern is how the immobilizer works, buy
> cutting
> power to the starter, ignition and fuel supply. So my question is, has
> anyone installed any type of anti theft device device in their EV, and
> what
> are the opinions on this?
>
> Here is the list of MPI approved Immobilizers,
> http://www.mpi.mb.ca/english/autotheft/TheftImmobilizers.html for more
> info.
>
> *Approved immobilizers *
>
> The following immobilizers have undergone extensive testing and have been
> proven to meet the Canadian Theft Deterrent
> Standard.<http://www.ibc.ca/en/Insurance_Crime/Prevention_Investigation/Immobilizers/IBC_Approved_Immobilizers.asp>
> *Name of Product* *Manufacturer/Importer* Autowatch 329 TI PFK
> Electronics Autowatch
> 573 PPi PFK Electronics Mastergard M6000 MasterGard Enterprises
> Powerlock-Canada Ultimate Security Systems
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tyler
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi,

I'd say it's probably possible to install one of the official
immobilizers: if it cuts power to the starter and fuel system, just
have it instead cut the power to the contactor and any 12V systems in
the car.

Another possible problem is getting it installed. I'm guessing they
don't want you to install it yourself, and finding a mechanic to work
on an EV will be tough. Maybe you should contact the insurance company
and ask them about it?

-Morgan

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Discussion Starter #13
Morgan LaMoore wrote:

> I'd say it's probably possible to install one of the official
> immobilizers: if it cuts power to the starter and fuel system, just
> have it instead cut the power to the contactor and any 12V systems in
> the car.
>
> Another possible problem is getting it installed. I'm guessing they
> don't want you to install it yourself, and finding a mechanic to work
> on an EV will be tough. Maybe you should contact the insurance company
> and ask them about it?

I'm not seeing the issue here. If the fellow (Tyler, was it?) is going
to convert a high-theft-risk donor, then if he buys the donor locally it
will already have the required immobiliser installed (otherwise it could
not be insured and driven as an ICE). If it doesn't yet have the
immobiliser installed (donor bought out of province, etc.), then get one
installed before stripping the vehicle of its ICE components.

The device cuts power to the starter, ignition, and fuel pump, and since
the EV has neither a starter or fuel pump, these are of no concern; most
Evs use the ignition power signal to power the main contactor(s) and/or
the controller logic enable (KSI, etc.) input, so the already installed
immobiliser will still function to immobilise the EV simply by
interrupting power to the ignition circuit.

If the EV layout is such that the main contactor(s) are in the engine
bay, then it is convenient to use the factory ignition wire to power
them; if one or more happen to be in the reear of the vehicle, then it
might be neater to power them from the supply that originally fed the
electric fuel pump. Both signals are interrupted by the immobiliser
device, so it continues to function to immobilise the vehicle.

Cheers,

Roger.

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