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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I wonder where they got the number 10M lines of code. They must be
including the code from microsoft's embedded windows OS (or whatever
platform they use). I suppose that accounts for 9.8M lines of code :)
Regardless, there's no way the application code is anywhere near as
complicated as that for a B787!

Peri

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of brucedp
Sent: 26 January, 2011 11:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] Bare-knuckled EV IP: more code than a Boeing 787



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/automobiles/23SPIES.html
Computer Code an Increasingly Precious E.V. Commodity By LINDSAY BROOKE Jan
21 2011

BATTLES over the ownership of innovations and product designs have raged in
the auto industry since the first horseless carriages sputtered out of
inventors' garages. In 1911, Henry Ford won a highly publicized eight-year
court battle with George Selden, who tried to patent the automobile even
though he had never sold one.

Subsequent disputes have kept lawyers busy for a century. While the court
actions once related mostly to hardware - a new wrinkle ... or a better
method to stamp fenders, perhaps - the advent of electrified vehicles is
changing the game. Valuable trade secrets now lie in the electronic controls
that regulate the operation of motors, generators and batteries, in that
shifting territory known as intellectual property.

That shift in the qualities that define a competitive advantage for hybrid
and electric vehicles was underscored ... by the firing of three top Renault
executives amid accusations that they had passed information to a "an
organized international network."

While the French carmaker, which has a partnership with Nissan ... has said
no crucial technology leaked, the stakes in automotive intellectual property
are high, experts say. And the valuables are not blueprints or styling
sketches, but the huge volume of computer instructions required by these
cars: the Chevrolet [pish] uses about 10 million lines of computer code to
shunt power seamlessly among the car's battery pack, power inverter, drive
motor, gas engine, generator and other subsystems.

By comparison, Boeing's new 787 Dreamliner relies on a mere eight million
lines of code.

Automakers therefore view leadership in control software as strategically
vital, said Eric Fedewa, head of powertrain forecasting at IHS Automotive, a
consulting firm based in Englewood, Colo.

"The next generation of vehicle propulsion is going to be very tightly
integrated into the other electronic capabilities of the vehicle," he said.
Because of this, "the strategic importance of controllers and code is going
to expand exponentially."

Electronic-control I.P. already accounts for a sizable portion of United
States patent applications related to E.V.'s and hybrids; Toyota has applied
for more than 1,000 patents related to its current-generation Prius.

Other automakers and their suppliers are similarly raising their game in
creating and protecting their electric-car I.P.

"It's a little like the wild, wild West right now," ... the battle for
electric-vehicle I.P. will only get more bare-knuckled in the next decade.

"I think the ball is up in the air regarding who has the intellectual
property to actually take leadership," he said. "When you talk about
electrically driven vehicles, the 100 years of I.P. that came before is
largely useless. Unless you possess a certain level of expertise in storage
devices, power electronics and motors, you won't control your own destiny.

"Once you decide to buy advanced technology I.P. from somebody else,"
Mr. Lauckner added, "you're going to buy it forever."
[C2011 The New York Times Company]






http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/15m-GTBO-VIII-d
a-Vinci-EV-ts-375mph-Gone-Tubular-td3236048.html

{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Bare-knuckled-E
V-IP-more-code-than-a-Boeing-787-tp3238655p3238655.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Peri,
Exactly what I was thinking, we always based the grade in programming
classes on completing the performance with as few lines of code as possible.
and that was in the old days, using "BASIC" or 8080 machine code. Including
a sophisticated operating system with all that code makes the program one
heck of a lot larger. (And somewhat "Amateurish")
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peri Hartman <[email protected]> wrote:

> I wonder where they got the number 10M lines of code. They must be
> including the code from microsoft's embedded windows OS (or whatever
> platform they use). I suppose that accounts for 9.8M lines of code :)
> Regardless, there's no way the application code is anywhere near as
> complicated as that for a B787!
>
> Peri
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> Of brucedp
> Sent: 26 January, 2011 11:32 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Bare-knuckled EV IP: more code than a Boeing 787
>
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/automobiles/23SPIES.html
> Computer Code an Increasingly Precious E.V. Commodity By LINDSAY BROOKE
> Jan
> 21 2011
>
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Registered
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It is a lot of wasted money to make the vehicle MORE proprietary and harder=
to =

hack with a higher price tag. Now, they steal up-front what they would have =

sucked out of you in service and they don't need to do any additional labor=
to =

earn it. Just another way to enslave the consumer dumb enough to purchase o=
ne of =

the units. =



RW

I don't buy what I cannot repair! (Shameless paraphrase)




________________________________
From: Dennis Miles <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 2:11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bare-knuckled EV IP: more code than a Boeing 787

Peri,
Exactly what I was thinking, we always based the grade in progra=
mming
classes on completing the performance with as few lines of code as possible.
and that was in the old days, using "BASIC" or 8080 machine code. Including
a sophisticated operating system with all that code makes the program one
heck of a lot larger. (And somewhat "Amateurish")
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles*
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---------------

Peri Hartman <[email protected]> wrote:

> I wonder where they got the number 10M lines of code. They must be
> including the code from microsoft's embedded windows OS (or whatever
> platform they use). I suppose that accounts for 9.8M lines of code =
:)
> Regardless, there's no way the application code is anywhere near as
> complicated as that for a B787!
>
> Peri
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> Of brucedp
> Sent: 26 January, 2011 11:32 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Bare-knuckled EV IP: more code than a Boeing 787
>
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/automobiles/23SPIES.html
> Computer Code an Increasingly Precious E.V. Commodity By LINDSAY BROOKE
> Jan
> 21 2011
>
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chment.html
=

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=

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm sure that they are partly counting the embedded operating system. But,
also, a lot of the code running in modern cars is automatically written by
software. The engineers draw flowcharts and use other highly abstracted
models and out comes code. The thing is, the sort of pathetic drivel that
these programs output boggles the mind. A human would do the same functions
in many less lines of code. But they aren't willing to pay a person to
actually hand code all of the things they need to have happen in the car. It
might be for the best as the auto generated code might have a higher chance
of being correct. But it's certainly not more efficient in terms of line
count.

Counting lines of code is the most idiotic measure of a program anyway. The
old staple of programming, hello world, can be vastly different in size
depending on the language used and who wrote it. # of lines is meaningless.
Especially when 95% of those lines were automatically generated by a
program.

Just for kicks, here is hello world in basic:
10 print "Hello World!"

And here it is in assembly:

section .data
msg db 'Hello World!', 0AH
len equ $-msg

section .text
global _start
_start:
mov edx, len
mov ecx, msg
mov ebx, 1
mov eax, 4
int 80h
mov ebx, 0
mov eax, 1
int

Notice the slight difference in # of lines for doing the same thing?

Peri Hartman <[email protected]> wrote:

> I wonder where they got the number 10M lines of code. They must be
> including the code from microsoft's embedded windows OS (or whatever
> platform they use). I suppose that accounts for 9.8M lines of code :)
> Regardless, there's no way the application code is anywhere near as
> complicated as that for a B787!
>
> Peri
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> Of brucedp
> Sent: 26 January, 2011 11:32 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Bare-knuckled EV IP: more code than a Boeing 787
>
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/automobiles/23SPIES.html
> Computer Code an Increasingly Precious E.V. Commodity By LINDSAY BROOKE
> Jan
> 21 2011
>
> BATTLES over the ownership of innovations and product designs have raged in
> the auto industry since the first horseless carriages sputtered out of
> inventors' garages. In 1911, Henry Ford won a highly publicized eight-year
> court battle with George Selden, who tried to patent the automobile even
> though he had never sold one.
>
> Subsequent disputes have kept lawyers busy for a century. While the court
> actions once related mostly to hardware - a new wrinkle ... or a better
> method to stamp fenders, perhaps - the advent of electrified vehicles is
> changing the game. Valuable trade secrets now lie in the electronic
> controls
> that regulate the operation of motors, generators and batteries, in that
> shifting territory known as intellectual property.
>
> That shift in the qualities that define a competitive advantage for hybrid
> and electric vehicles was underscored ... by the firing of three top
> Renault
> executives amid accusations that they had passed information to a "an
> organized international network."
>
> While the French carmaker, which has a partnership with Nissan ... has said
> no crucial technology leaked, the stakes in automotive intellectual
> property
> are high, experts say. And the valuables are not blueprints or styling
> sketches, but the huge volume of computer instructions required by these
> cars: the Chevrolet [pish] uses about 10 million lines of computer code to
> shunt power seamlessly among the car's battery pack, power inverter, drive
> motor, gas engine, generator and other subsystems.
>
> By comparison, Boeing's new 787 Dreamliner relies on a mere eight million
> lines of code.
>
> Automakers therefore view leadership in control software as strategically
> vital, said Eric Fedewa, head of powertrain forecasting at IHS Automotive,
> a
> consulting firm based in Englewood, Colo.
>
> "The next generation of vehicle propulsion is going to be very tightly
> integrated into the other electronic capabilities of the vehicle," he said.
> Because of this, "the strategic importance of controllers and code is going
> to expand exponentially."
>
> Electronic-control I.P. already accounts for a sizable portion of United
> States patent applications related to E.V.'s and hybrids; Toyota has
> applied
> for more than 1,000 patents related to its current-generation Prius.
>
> Other automakers and their suppliers are similarly raising their game in
> creating and protecting their electric-car I.P.
>
> "It's a little like the wild, wild West right now," ... the battle for
> electric-vehicle I.P. will only get more bare-knuckled in the next decade.
>
> "I think the ball is up in the air regarding who has the intellectual
> property to actually take leadership," he said. "When you talk about
> electrically driven vehicles, the 100 years of I.P. that came before is
> largely useless. Unless you possess a certain level of expertise in storage
> devices, power electronics and motors, you won't control your own destiny.
>
> "Once you decide to buy advanced technology I.P. from somebody else,"
> Mr. Lauckner added, "you're going to buy it forever."
> [C2011 The New York Times Company]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/15m-GTBO-VIII-d
> a-Vinci-EV-ts-375mph-Gone-Tubular-td3236048.html
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
> --
> View this message in context:
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Bare-knuckled-E
> V-IP-more-code-than-a-Boeing-787-tp3238655p3238655.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
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