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Discussion Starter #1
I just checked on the price of 2/0 AWG marine battery cable at my
local marine equipment shop and they are charging $7.?? a foot.
The stuff that they sell is made for the marine environment and is tin
plated or something to resist corrosion. I figure I don't need this
feature and hoped that there was a cheaper option.
What is a reasonable price for the 2/0 cable?
Where is a good place if I decide to order it?


Cheers,
--
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225

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Discussion Starter #3
It's in the $2 range here:

https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?Next::1:UNDEF:OR:A2::pA

Also, local welding supply stores, and tractor supply have it on
spools. Maybe even HomeDepot/Lowes.

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Discussion Starter #4
try welders cable it is great for ev applications
----- Original Message -----
From: Tehben Dean<mailto:[email protected]>
To: EV mail list<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 7:10 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Battery Cable Price


I just checked on the price of 2/0 AWG marine battery cable at my
local marine equipment shop and they are charging $7.?? a foot.
The stuff that they sell is made for the marine environment and is tin
plated or something to resist corrosion. I figure I don't need this
feature and hoped that there was a cheaper option.
What is a reasonable price for the 2/0 cable?
Where is a good place if I decide to order it?


Cheers,
--
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com<http://www.helixev.com/>
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225>

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Discussion Starter #5
You will find 4AWG 2058 strands tinned OFC cable at 1,35$ here:

http://stores.ebay.fr/KnuKonceptz-com_Power-Wire_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ3QQftidZ2QQtZkm

They have other sizes also though more expensive ($3.25 for high quality
1/0)

i'm very happy with other the pond service and product so from USA it should
be even best :^)

regards,
Philippe



2007/8/28, FRED JEANETTE MERTENS <[email protected]>:
>
> try welders cable it is great for ev applications
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tehben Dean<mailto:[email protected]>
> To: EV mail list<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 7:10 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Battery Cable Price
>
>
> I just checked on the price of 2/0 AWG marine battery cable at my
> local marine equipment shop and they are charging $7.?? a foot.
> The stuff that they sell is made for the marine environment and is tin
> plated or something to resist corrosion. I figure I don't need this
> feature and hoped that there was a cheaper option.
> What is a reasonable price for the 2/0 cable?
> Where is a good place if I decide to order it?
>
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Tehben
> '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> 'hElix EV'
> Website: www.helixev.com<http://www.helixev.com/>
> evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225<
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Discussion Starter #6
If you're looking for 4/0 cable, (96 strand I believe), I can supply 11'6" lengths for $30, two for $50, shipping included. They're salvaged from '80's BMW's, routed inside the car connecting the trunk battery to the firewall. If the ends are too corroded for ICE tweakers, they go to EV use.
The OD of the copper is .415", molded on insulation and stiffer than welding cable.
Several listees have 'em. I find a few a month, so quantities are limited.

-Harry Houck, Fresno, CA
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Discussion Starter #7
$7.xx a foot is cheaper than "evparts.com"

http://www.evparts.com/shopping/search.php?concatenation=AND&case_sensitive=0&Search=search&stringtsf=2%2F0

$8.85 US for black; shipping not included.
Its good cable (I bought some a while back for a little less than $6 a
foot, which I thought was high then.)

Whats going on?
I've heard China this, China that....
Are Chinese purchases really driving these prices up?


Ed Cooley





"vehiculeselectriques.free.fr" <[email protected]>
Sent by: [email protected]
08/28/2007 09:50
Please respond to
Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>


To
"Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
cc

Subject
Re: [EVDL] Battery Cable Price






You will find 4AWG 2058 strands tinned OFC cable at 1,35$ here:

http://stores.ebay.fr/KnuKonceptz-com_Power-Wire_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ3QQftidZ2QQtZkm


They have other sizes also though more expensive ($3.25 for high quality
1/0)

i'm very happy with other the pond service and product so from USA it
should
be even best :^)

regards,
Philippe



2007/8/28, FRED JEANETTE MERTENS <[email protected]>:
>
> try welders cable it is great for ev applications
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tehben Dean<mailto:[email protected]>
> To: EV mail list<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 7:10 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Battery Cable Price
>
>
> I just checked on the price of 2/0 AWG marine battery cable at my
> local marine equipment shop and they are charging $7.?? a foot.
> The stuff that they sell is made for the marine environment and is tin
> plated or something to resist corrosion. I figure I don't need this
> feature and hoped that there was a cheaper option.
> What is a reasonable price for the 2/0 cable?
> Where is a good place if I decide to order it?
>
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Tehben
> '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> 'hElix EV'
> Website: www.helixev.com<http://www.helixev.com/>
> evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225<
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
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Discussion Starter #8
It seems like this cable is meant for 12V vehicle use. It might not be a
problem, but be sure that the insulation is rated at least as high as your
pack voltage.

Phil


>From: "vehiculeselectriques.free.fr" <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Cable Price
>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:50:38 +0200
>
>You will find 4AWG 2058 strands tinned OFC cable at 1,35$ here:
>
>http://stores.ebay.fr/KnuKonceptz-com_Power-Wire_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ3QQftidZ2QQtZkm
>
>They have other sizes also though more expensive ($3.25 for high quality
>1/0)
>
>i'm very happy with other the pond service and product so from USA it
>should
>be even best :^)
>
>regards,
>Philippe
>
>
>
>2007/8/28, FRED JEANETTE MERTENS <[email protected]>:
> >
> > try welders cable it is great for ev applications
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tehben Dean<mailto:[email protected]>
> > To: EV mail list<mailto:[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 7:10 PM
> > Subject: [EVDL] Battery Cable Price
> >
> >
> > I just checked on the price of 2/0 AWG marine battery cable at my
> > local marine equipment shop and they are charging $7.?? a foot.
> > The stuff that they sell is made for the marine environment and is tin
> > plated or something to resist corrosion. I figure I don't need this
> > feature and hoped that there was a cheaper option.
> > What is a reasonable price for the 2/0 cable?
> > Where is a good place if I decide to order it?
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > --
> > Tehben
> > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > 'hElix EV'
> > Website: www.helixev.com<http://www.helixev.com/>
> > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225<
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>_______________________________________________
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>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #10
I ordered mine from McMaster Carr. They have the
standard 2/0 welding cable for $2.37/FT and the
Vu-tron for 3.49/FT, The Vu-tron is the real fine high
strand count cable that is very flexible. The catalog
page is here:
http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCtlgPage.aspx?ReqTyp=CATALOG&CtlgPgNbr=3263&RelatedCtlgPgs=761,3263&term=Welding%2bCable&sesnextrep=528249917742944&ScreenWidth=1920&McMMainWidth=1713
Sorry for the long URL, you can go to mcmaster.com and
type in welding cable as well. You have to pay for
shipping but it's not that bad and they are really
fast. I've ordered stuff in the morning and had it on
my doorstep that evening after work, not a usual
occurrence but next day is the general rule depending
on how close you are to one of their distribution
centers.

TiM

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Discussion Starter #11
You sure don't need tinned cable. You need fine stranded cable to increase
surface area and make it more bendable. Though that cable would work. I
myself have bought 70 feet of 2/0 welding cable on ebay for $100 for first
50 feet brand new neoprene 2/0 and $17 for 20 more feet fine stranded
welding cable. The next day I was watching an auction and it ended with NO
bids at all , it was 50 feet for $45 shipped. So yes, people do resell old
stuff and sometimes no one bids. For brand new cable a good price is $2 per
foot and for used cable $1.35 per foot.

Of course wholesale is probably in $3.20 /ft range a retailer actually pays
for it.

Tehben Dean wrote:
>
> I just checked on the price of 2/0 AWG marine battery cable at my
> local marine equipment shop and they are charging $7.?? a foot.
> The stuff that they sell is made for the marine environment and is tin
> plated or something to resist corrosion. I figure I don't need this
> feature and hoped that there was a cheaper option.
> What is a reasonable price for the 2/0 cable?
> Where is a good place if I decide to order it?
>
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Tehben
> '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> 'hElix EV'
> Website: www.helixev.com
> evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Battery-Cable-Price-tf4339059s25542.html#a12373176
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Discussion Starter #12
You shouldn't assume that the listed prices are current. My most recent
purchase of McMaster-Carr's 2/0 Super Vu-Tron (orange color, fine strand)
came in over $6/ft.
Its listed price was nearly half of that.

Richard Rau
Northwest Electric Vehicles
Corvallis, OR

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of TiM M
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Cable Price

I ordered mine from McMaster Carr. They have the
standard 2/0 welding cable for $2.37/FT and the
Vu-tron for 3.49/FT, The Vu-tron is the real fine high
strand count cable that is very flexible. The catalog
page is here:
http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCtlgPage.aspx?ReqTyp=CATALOG&CtlgPgNbr=326
3&RelatedCtlgPgs=761,3263&term=Welding%2bCable&sesnextrep=528249917742944&Sc
reenWidth=1920&McMMainWidth=1713
TiM


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Discussion Starter #13
Is 2/0 heavy enough?

Dave Delman
1981 DeLorean Conversion
My WarP 9 is supposed to arrive tommorrow!

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Discussion Starter #14
Dave Delman wrote:

> Is 2/0 heavy enough?

Heavy enough for what? ;^>

Your message referred to a Warp9 arriving, so I infer you are building a
DC conversion. 2/0 is a fairly common choice for the battery loop wiring
in DC vehicles. You might want to use heavier cable (or double runs of
2/0) for the short run between the controller and motor if you are
planning to run a Z1K or Z2K controller.

In the context of the original message, I think 2/0 is considerably too
heavy for Tebhen's AC conversion. His controller is limited to about
280A peak and we don't size our cables based on peak current, but rather
the average. I would expect that a better choice for his application is
something in the 1ga to 4ga range, and this will be considerably cheaper
than the 2/0.

Personally, if in Tehben's position, I'd probably go with the 4ga cable
and choose batteries with threaded inserts or studs to allow the use of
the much cheaper lug terminals instead of SAE post battery clamps. The
lower current of the AC system doesn't require the use of the
higher-current capable SAE clamps. Browsing the EV Parts catalog, if
one goes with the good stuff (MagnaLugs), the 4ga lugs are $1.50 ea and
4ga cable is $3.30/ft. Assuming about a 1ft interconnect length, the
cost savings on the 4ga lugs vs 2/0 lugs pretty much pays for the cable
used per interconnect (the savings over 4ga or 2/0 battery clamps more
than pays for the cable). If one insisted on 2/0, the cost savings
associated with using lugs instead of clamp terminals knocks a good
chunk off the cable cost.

While I advocate supporting our EV parts suppliers whenever possible, I
would check locally with an electrical supply house to see what welding
cable they carry before having something as heavy as welding cable
shipped.

Fastenal appears to be a distributor with an Alaskan presence, and while
I don't know if their online catalog prices are current, they do appear
to have #4 cable in 50 or 100ft lengths in stock for reasonable prices:

<http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0812003>

<http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0812020>

(While they also offer it in 25ft lengths, I rather doubt Tehben can
wire his pack with less than 25ft ;^)

Fastenal carries cable from Direct Wire and Cable, and while they don't
state which line it is, the 30AWG stranding suggests it is the standard
"Flex-o-prene". If Tehben can get Fastenal to supply Direct's
"Ultra-flex" cable instead, it comes in nice orange jacketing:

<http://www.directwire.biz/index_files/UltraFlex.htm>

Cheers,

Roger.

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Discussion Starter #16
Tehben Dean wrote:

> Before I actually purchase, would there be any benefit to
> using #2 if I found deal?

I suppose that depends on the cost of the #2 terminals you would need vs
the #4 you could use. A deal on the cable could actually be offset by
the difference in terminal cost!

The #2 will run a bit cooler than the #4, but that's really the only
benefit.

Quoted below is a gem from Bill Dube explaining the wire size issue more
clearly.

Cheers,

Roger.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 6:11 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: cable amp ratings - The Facts
>
> >Arthur Matteson wrote:
> >> So do the wire rules not apply to cars?
> >
> >Actually they still apply, but use the degrees C rise for cross
> >section, and current flow equation. Then take into account how
> >fast you can disipate the heat away from the conductor bundle.
> >>From that you then can figure out the minimum wire size needed
> >then double to quadruple it to handle individual strand breakage
> >and unexpected conditions. No, I don't know the actual equations
> >off the top of my head and those books are packed.
>
> It is all about heat transfer.
>
> First, you determine how hot the insulation can get
> before it is damaged.
> This can be 60 C (or less) for thermoplastic (like vinyl)
> insulation. (An example is the pretty stereo wire that
> turns to goo when the wires get even slightly warm.) Some
> of the Silicone or Teflon insulated wiring can take as
> much as 200 C without a problem. It is just as pretty as
> stereo wire, but costs quite a bit more. Welding wire is
> typically 75 C or 90 C insulation.
>
> There are two operating regimes, intermittent and
> continuous. The continuous rating is what you will find
> in the National Electrical Code, Section 70, Tables 310-16
> through 310-19. For DC use, the formula is
>
> TC-TA
> I = Squareroot( ----------------)
> RDC * RCA
>
> where
> TC = conductor temperature, C (what the insulation will
> withstand)
> TA = The ambient temperature, C
> RDC = The DC resistance of the conductor at TC
> RCA = Effective thermal resistance between the
> conductor and it's surroundings. (Typically
> 450 to 650 C-cm/watt)
>
> 2/0 welding cable works out to be 200 amps continuous.
>
> The intermittent rating is what seems to confuse most
> folks. From Beeman's "Industrial Power Systems Handbook"
> page 183, we have the formula for copper conductors:
>
> 1 (T2 + 234)
> t = ----------------- log10 (---------------)
> I (T1 + 234)
> (33) * (-------) ^2
> CM
>
> where
> t = time, seconds
> I = RMS current, amperes
> CM = Conductor cross section, circular mils
> T1 = Initial conductor current, Celsius
> T2 = Final conductor temperature, Celsius
>
> Eye-balled from the chart on page 184,
>
> 2/0, 75 C rise,
>
> RMS Amps t, seconds
> 8,000 1
> 3,300 5
> 2,200 10
> 1,400 30
> 900 60
>
> 30 second duration for 75 C rise (This would be for a "peppy" EV)
>
> Gauge RMS Amps
> 10 120
> 8 170
> 6 280
> 4 530
> 2 700
> 1 800
> 1/0 1100
> 2/0 1300
> 3/0 1700
> 4/0 2100
>
> This formula assumes that all the heat is absorbed by
> the copper and none is transferred to the air. This is a
> pretty good assumption for short time intermittent loads
> like this. This assumed temperature rise (75 C) would be
> good for welding wire type insulation, but way off for goofy
> vinyl insulation.
>
> You can see that there are no simple answers.
>
> The keys are the "cruising" amperage and the duration
> and magnitude of the intermittent amperage. If you have a
> very light EV and a huge controller, the duration of maximum
> current will be very low, perhaps 15 seconds or so.
> A heavy EV with a smallish controller will have max current
> durations of perhaps 10 minutes or more.
>
> The KillaCycle has a max motor current of 1400 amps
> that lasts about 10 seconds. I use #2/0, but #1/0 welding
> cable would more than thick enough for the motor leads.
> #1 might get a little warm.
>
> Since the battery current is essentially a ramp from
> zero with a peak of 1400 amps, the RMS current during that
> time is 808 amps. (To find the RMS value of a ramp, divide
> by the square root of 3.) This mean that the minimum wire
> size would be about #3 (from the chart.) I use two #6 flat
> copper braids in parallel for battery interconnects and they
> work just fine.
>
> These calculations will give you the minimum wire
> diameter based on allowable insulation temperature. It turns
> out that for acceleration performance, like on the drag strip,
> the optimal wire diameter typically comes out a little smaller!
>
> I haven't done the calculation for optimal range, but
> it probably close to the NEC size for the cruise current.
> You still have to do the temperature-limit calculation above
> for the max current to make sure that you don't damage the
> wire during max throttle accelerations.
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o_O' <[email protected]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com

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Discussion Starter #17
Well I just checked pricing on ultraflex welding cable (black only :)
at a local welding supply store and I can get the #4 for $1.60 a foot
and the #2 is somewhere over $2 per ft.
I haven't checked on terminal pricing yet but I know I can get tinned
copper ones locally. I think they are somewhere between 1 and 2 bucks
each.
I guess I will need around 60 of them...

> 30 second duration for 75 C rise (This would be for a "peppy" EV)
>
> Gauge RMS Amps
> 4 530
If this means what I think it means, it seems like #4 should be plenty
adequate...

Cheers,
--
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225

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Discussion Starter #18
>From: ampaynz1 <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Cable Price
>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:51:42 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>You sure don't need tinned cable. You need fine stranded cable to increase
>surface area and make it more bendable.

Fine stranded cable is a good idea - it's more flexible and easier to work
with. But, the increased surface are makes no difference as far as EV use
goes. The surface area is only important at very high frequencies.

Phil

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