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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm using a CanEV's electric power steering kit (which I believe uses
the Toyota MR2 pump) and I'm trying to figure out a way to quiet it down
a bit and run it a bit more efficiently. Currently, running at 13.8V it
draws 13A continuously, so is using 177W of power and running at rather
loud frantic high-pitched whine. I tried wiring it up to a variable
power supply to play with different voltages, and have settled on 8V as
an ideal level where it still seems to give enough assist and the noise
level is down to a more comfortable sounding hum. At 8V it uses about
10.5A continuously and peaks up to 44A when turning the wheel back and
forth.

So my questions is, what is the best way to run this pump at 8V. Are
there any cheap DC-DC converters out there that can output 8V @ 44A
(352W)? Everything I've come up with seems to be for fairly low amps.
Could I simply use a couple of large resistors to drop the voltage
instead? My understanding of voltage divider circuits is extremely
basic so I'm not quite sure how to calculate this. Is a voltage divider
even a viable option for this kind of power level?


Thanks,
Bryan

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Wow, very cool. Looks like a lot of work, but that's exactly the kind
of info I was looking for. Thanks!

-Bryan

Mike Chancey wrote:

>Have you seen John Grigg's info on controlling the MR2 pumps at:
>
>
>http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/mr2_powersteering.html
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Chancey
>Webmaster
>EV Photo Album
>http://evalbum.com
>
>At 04:15 PM 9/2/2007, you wrote:
>
>
>>I'm using a CanEV's electric power steering kit (which I believe uses
>>the Toyota MR2 pump) and I'm trying to figure out a way to quiet it down
>>a bit and run it a bit more efficiently. Currently, running at 13.8V it
>>draws 13A continuously, so is using 177W of power and running at rather
>>loud frantic high-pitched whine. I tried wiring it up to a variable
>>power supply to play with different voltages, and have settled on 8V as
>>an ideal level where it still seems to give enough assist and the noise
>>level is down to a more comfortable sounding hum. At 8V it uses about
>>10.5A continuously and peaks up to 44A when turning the wheel back and
>>forth.
>>
>>So my questions is, what is the best way to run this pump at 8V. Are
>>there any cheap DC-DC converters out there that can output 8V @ 44A
>>(352W)? Everything I've come up with seems to be for fairly low amps.
>>Could I simply use a couple of large resistors to drop the voltage
>>instead? My understanding of voltage divider circuits is extremely
>>basic so I'm not quite sure how to calculate this. Is a voltage divider
>>even a viable option for this kind of power level?
>>
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Bryan
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>For subscription options, see
>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Good luck in trying to find a MR2 pump. They are not in inventory any
longer. Delco even made them for Toyota and they are not listed any longer.
Went on all the power steering WEB sites and they list it but no longer in
stock.

I found out that it takes special steering fluid oil, that you can only get
from Toyota which cost three to four times the normal.

So I ended up with a CanEV's electric steering pump. It must be mounted
vertical with the fill tank above the pump. It is mounted on rubber
vibration dampers on a aluminum mounting plate. I than mounted this
mounting plate with four more vibration dampers using those rubber nut
plates on to a free standing 1/4 inch aluminum plate with a platform at the
bottom that is bent at 90 degrees which is than again mounted to the frame
cross member with four more vibration dampers.

I can feel a slight vibration on the heavy aluminum mount, but this does not
transmit this vibration to the heavy 1/4 inch thick steel cross member.

I am running this pump full time at 14.5 VDC which only draws 6 to 8 amps
for straight running and 12 amps for parking. Lock rotor is 60 amps and is
circuit breaker for 60 amps.

I do not hardly get any sound out of it, except when you do hard turning,
the sound will pick up a little bit. It will take standard power steering
oil.

The cost of these units are now double over the dealer cost.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best way to run power steering pump @ 8 volts?


> Wow, very cool. Looks like a lot of work, but that's exactly the kind
> of info I was looking for. Thanks!
>
> -Bryan
>
> Mike Chancey wrote:
>
> >Have you seen John Grigg's info on controlling the MR2 pumps at:
> >
> >
> >http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/mr2_powersteering.html
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Mike Chancey
> >Webmaster
> >EV Photo Album
> >http://evalbum.com
> >
> >At 04:15 PM 9/2/2007, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I'm using a CanEV's electric power steering kit (which I believe uses
> >>the Toyota MR2 pump) and I'm trying to figure out a way to quiet it down
> >>a bit and run it a bit more efficiently. Currently, running at 13.8V it
> >>draws 13A continuously, so is using 177W of power and running at rather
> >>loud frantic high-pitched whine. I tried wiring it up to a variable
> >>power supply to play with different voltages, and have settled on 8V as
> >>an ideal level where it still seems to give enough assist and the noise
> >>level is down to a more comfortable sounding hum. At 8V it uses about
> >>10.5A continuously and peaks up to 44A when turning the wheel back and
> >>forth.
> >>
> >>So my questions is, what is the best way to run this pump at 8V. Are
> >>there any cheap DC-DC converters out there that can output 8V @ 44A
> >>(352W)? Everything I've come up with seems to be for fairly low amps.
> >>Could I simply use a couple of large resistors to drop the voltage
> >>instead? My understanding of voltage divider circuits is extremely
> >>basic so I'm not quite sure how to calculate this. Is a voltage divider
> >>even a viable option for this kind of power level?
> >>
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>Bryan
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>For subscription options, see
> >>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >For subscription options, see
> >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hmmm.... I was under the impression that the CanEV pumps were the same
as the MR2 pump but I've never seen the real MR2 pump to compare mine
too. I guess I should figure that out before going to all the trouble
of finding the MR2 control unit parts. Has anyone had any luck using
the CanEV pump with the MR2 control unit?

I've got the pump mounting bracket installed on the side of the drive
motor, so it is isolated from the chassis through the engine mounts as
well as the rubber dampers on the pump mounting bracket itself.
Vibration doesn't seem to be an issue, but it the whine of the pump is
very noticeable and I don't think could be described as quiet at all.
Incidentally, the lead that is supposed to be used to signal that the
brushes are low seems to always be indicating that it's time to change
the brushes, and did right from the start. Would old, tired brushes
cause the pump to make more noise than normal?

-Bryan


Roland Wiench wrote:

>Good luck in trying to find a MR2 pump. They are not in inventory any
>longer. Delco even made them for Toyota and they are not listed any longer.
>Went on all the power steering WEB sites and they list it but no longer in
>stock.
>
>I found out that it takes special steering fluid oil, that you can only get
>from Toyota which cost three to four times the normal.
>
>So I ended up with a CanEV's electric steering pump. It must be mounted
>vertical with the fill tank above the pump. It is mounted on rubber
>vibration dampers on a aluminum mounting plate. I than mounted this
>mounting plate with four more vibration dampers using those rubber nut
>plates on to a free standing 1/4 inch aluminum plate with a platform at the
>bottom that is bent at 90 degrees which is than again mounted to the frame
>cross member with four more vibration dampers.
>
>I can feel a slight vibration on the heavy aluminum mount, but this does not
>transmit this vibration to the heavy 1/4 inch thick steel cross member.
>
>I am running this pump full time at 14.5 VDC which only draws 6 to 8 amps
>for straight running and 12 amps for parking. Lock rotor is 60 amps and is
>circuit breaker for 60 amps.
>
>I do not hardly get any sound out of it, except when you do hard turning,
>the sound will pick up a little bit. It will take standard power steering
>oil.
>
>The cost of these units are now double over the dealer cost.
>
>Roland
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bryan" <[email protected]>
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 4:23 PM
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best way to run power steering pump @ 8 volts?
>
>
>
>
>>Wow, very cool. Looks like a lot of work, but that's exactly the kind
>>of info I was looking for. Thanks!
>>
>>-Bryan
>>
>>Mike Chancey wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Have you seen John Grigg's info on controlling the MR2 pumps at:
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/mr2_powersteering.html
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Mike Chancey
>>>Webmaster
>>>EV Photo Album
>>>http://evalbum.com
>>>
>>>At 04:15 PM 9/2/2007, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm using a CanEV's electric power steering kit (which I believe uses
>>>>the Toyota MR2 pump) and I'm trying to figure out a way to quiet it down
>>>>a bit and run it a bit more efficiently. Currently, running at 13.8V it
>>>>draws 13A continuously, so is using 177W of power and running at rather
>>>>loud frantic high-pitched whine. I tried wiring it up to a variable
>>>>power supply to play with different voltages, and have settled on 8V as
>>>>an ideal level where it still seems to give enough assist and the noise
>>>>level is down to a more comfortable sounding hum. At 8V it uses about
>>>>10.5A continuously and peaks up to 44A when turning the wheel back and
>>>>forth.
>>>>
>>>>So my questions is, what is the best way to run this pump at 8V. Are
>>>>there any cheap DC-DC converters out there that can output 8V @ 44A
>>>>(352W)? Everything I've come up with seems to be for fairly low amps.
>>>>Could I simply use a couple of large resistors to drop the voltage
>>>>instead? My understanding of voltage divider circuits is extremely
>>>>basic so I'm not quite sure how to calculate this. Is a voltage divider
>>>>even a viable option for this kind of power level?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Bryan
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>For subscription options, see
>>>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>For subscription options, see
>>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>For subscription options, see
>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hello Bryan,

Old brushes?, I had a new Warp 9 that when I ran I first ran it on a test
bench, that the brushes scream so load, that you can hear it from 500 feet
away. Had to wear ear defenders when I was in the same room with it.

There must have been one commentator bar higher then the others and the top
of the edges of the commentator bar was at a sharp 90 degree cut. I then
ran a V file over these sharp edges, stone the commentator and ran the motor
for 8 hours to break in and seat the brushes.

Today after 2 years of running, the motor is now very quiet. The first
thing is to check the brushes and the condition of the commentator to see if
this is the problem.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 3:39 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best way to run power steering pump @ 8 volts?


> Hmmm.... I was under the impression that the CanEV pumps were the same
> as the MR2 pump but I've never seen the real MR2 pump to compare mine
> too. I guess I should figure that out before going to all the trouble
> of finding the MR2 control unit parts. Has anyone had any luck using
> the CanEV pump with the MR2 control unit?
>
> I've got the pump mounting bracket installed on the side of the drive
> motor, so it is isolated from the chassis through the engine mounts as
> well as the rubber dampers on the pump mounting bracket itself.
> Vibration doesn't seem to be an issue, but it the whine of the pump is
> very noticeable and I don't think could be described as quiet at all.
> Incidentally, the lead that is supposed to be used to signal that the
> brushes are low seems to always be indicating that it's time to change
> the brushes, and did right from the start. Would old, tired brushes
> cause the pump to make more noise than normal?
>
> -Bryan
>
>
> Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> >Good luck in trying to find a MR2 pump. They are not in inventory any
> >longer. Delco even made them for Toyota and they are not listed any
> >longer.
> >Went on all the power steering WEB sites and they list it but no longer
> >in
> >stock.
> >
> >I found out that it takes special steering fluid oil, that you can only
> >get
> >from Toyota which cost three to four times the normal.
> >
> >So I ended up with a CanEV's electric steering pump. It must be mounted
> >vertical with the fill tank above the pump. It is mounted on rubber
> >vibration dampers on a aluminum mounting plate. I than mounted this
> >mounting plate with four more vibration dampers using those rubber nut
> >plates on to a free standing 1/4 inch aluminum plate with a platform at
> >the
> >bottom that is bent at 90 degrees which is than again mounted to the
> >frame
> >cross member with four more vibration dampers.
> >
> >I can feel a slight vibration on the heavy aluminum mount, but this does
> >not
> >transmit this vibration to the heavy 1/4 inch thick steel cross member.
> >
> >I am running this pump full time at 14.5 VDC which only draws 6 to 8 amps
> >for straight running and 12 amps for parking. Lock rotor is 60 amps and
> >is
> >circuit breaker for 60 amps.
> >
> >I do not hardly get any sound out of it, except when you do hard turning,
> >the sound will pick up a little bit. It will take standard power
> >steering
> >oil.
> >
> >The cost of these units are now double over the dealer cost.
> >
> >Roland
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bryan" <[email protected]>
> >To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 4:23 PM
> >Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best way to run power steering pump @ 8 volts?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Wow, very cool. Looks like a lot of work, but that's exactly the kind
> >>of info I was looking for. Thanks!
> >>
> >>-Bryan
> >>
> >>Mike Chancey wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Have you seen John Grigg's info on controlling the MR2 pumps at:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/mr2_powersteering.html
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>Mike Chancey
> >>>Webmaster
> >>>EV Photo Album
> >>>http://evalbum.com
> >>>
> >>>At 04:15 PM 9/2/2007, you wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm using a CanEV's electric power steering kit (which I believe uses
> >>>>the Toyota MR2 pump) and I'm trying to figure out a way to quiet it
> >>>>down
> >>>>a bit and run it a bit more efficiently. Currently, running at 13.8V
> >>>>it
> >>>>draws 13A continuously, so is using 177W of power and running at
> >>>>rather
> >>>>loud frantic high-pitched whine. I tried wiring it up to a variable
> >>>>power supply to play with different voltages, and have settled on 8V
> >>>>as
> >>>>an ideal level where it still seems to give enough assist and the
> >>>>noise
> >>>>level is down to a more comfortable sounding hum. At 8V it uses about
> >>>>10.5A continuously and peaks up to 44A when turning the wheel back and
> >>>>forth.
> >>>>
> >>>>So my questions is, what is the best way to run this pump at 8V. Are
> >>>>there any cheap DC-DC converters out there that can output 8V @ 44A
> >>>>(352W)? Everything I've come up with seems to be for fairly low amps.
> >>>>Could I simply use a couple of large resistors to drop the voltage
> >>>>instead? My understanding of voltage divider circuits is extremely
> >>>>basic so I'm not quite sure how to calculate this. Is a voltage
> >>>>divider
> >>>>even a viable option for this kind of power level?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Thanks,
> >>>>Bryan
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>For subscription options, see
> >>>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>For subscription options, see
> >>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>For subscription options, see
> >>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >For subscription options, see
> >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
> So my questions is, what is the best way to run this pump at 8V. Are
> there any cheap DC-DC converters out there that can output 8V @ 44A
> (352W)? Everything I've come up with seems to be for fairly low amps.

Try using an "adjustable" DC/DC converter, AKA a motor controller. It
would be the same as John Grigg's setup without the steering/speed sensor.
Instead of a potbox, use a fixed resistor and leave it alone. 400W to
1000W controllers for bicycles and scooters should be under $100.

Here is one situation where safety features like high pedal lockout,
undervoltage protection, etc. can be a real pain...

Other options:

R/C car/airplane speed controls (called ESCs). Similar high pedal lockout
safeties and they take PWM input signals. 50A units are about $65. If
you're into tinkering...

Robot/Battlebot controls, wheelchair controllers, ???


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Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Bryan wrote:
> I'm using a CanEV's electric power steering kit... at 13.8V it draws
> 13A continuously and loud... At 8V it uses about 10.5A continuously
> and peaks up to 44A when turning the wheel back and forth... What is
> the best way to run this pump at 8V.

My first thought would be get a DC/DC converter module rated for 12v
input and 8v output. But these will be a little scarce. You can order
one from Vicor (www.vicr.com) VI-200 series) but they cost about $160 new.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Here are some multi-angle pictures of the PS Pump with the rubber bootie
installed on it, Goto:
http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=430&PartNum=
215500

Enjoy
John Grigg


-----Original Message-----
From: xxx[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Bryan
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 2:40 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best way to run power steering pump @ 8 volts?

Hmmm.... I was under the impression that the CanEV pumps were the same
as the MR2 pump but I've never seen the real MR2 pump to compare mine
too. I guess I should figure that out before going to all the trouble
of finding the MR2 control unit parts. Has anyone had any luck using
the CanEV pump with the MR2 control unit?

I've got the pump mounting bracket installed on the side of the drive
motor, so it is isolated from the chassis through the engine mounts as
well as the rubber dampers on the pump mounting bracket itself.
Vibration doesn't seem to be an issue, but it the whine of the pump is
very noticeable and I don't think could be described as quiet at all.
Incidentally, the lead that is supposed to be used to signal that the
brushes are low seems to always be indicating that it's time to change
the brushes, and did right from the start. Would old, tired brushes
cause the pump to make more noise than normal?

-Bryan
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