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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting braking
safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get better emergency braking.
It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slows
the vehicle down. This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel
Beetle with rear disc brakes. I remember with my Electro-Metro which had
*drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency brake
handle.

Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail? Or is
that just an inherent problem with rear disc brakes?

have a renewable energy day,
Mark

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Discussion Starter #2
Hello Mark,

That is why I have drum brakes on the rear and disc on the front. The =

problem with a EV with a manual transmission, there is no compression you =

have with a engine where you can have the transmission in 1st or reversed =

which may hold the vehicle on a small slope and a 2nd back up using a =

emergency brake.

With a EV, you have only one parking brake option, so when I am on a steepe=
r =

sloped, I put out a set of wheel chocks which I made out of a piece of 4 by =

4 inch wood that is cut 4 inches long that the face is cut at a 45 degree =

angle. Attach one of those heavy 14 grit adhesive back sand paper that is =

use for floor sanding.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- =

From: "Mark Hanson" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:52 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake


> Hi,
>
> With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting braking
> safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get better emergency =

> braking.
> It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slows
> the vehicle down. This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel
> Beetle with rear disc brakes. I remember with my Electro-Metro which had
> *drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency =

> brake
> handle.
>
> Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail? Or =

> is
> that just an inherent problem with rear disc brakes?
>
> have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Messenger Caf=E9 - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served =

> daily.
> Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline
>
> > _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev =


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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Do you tie anything to wheel chocks?
I have run over them sometimes. =


--- Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello Mark,
> =

> That is why I have drum brakes on the rear and disc
> on the front. The =

> problem with a EV with a manual transmission, there
> is no compression you =

> have with a engine where you can have the
> transmission in 1st or reversed =

> which may hold the vehicle on a small slope and a
> 2nd back up using a =

> emergency brake.
> =

> With a EV, you have only one parking brake option,
> so when I am on a steeper =

> sloped, I put out a set of wheel chocks which I made
> out of a piece of 4 by =

> 4 inch wood that is cut 4 inches long that the face
> is cut at a 45 degree =

> angle. Attach one of those heavy 14 grit adhesive
> back sand paper that is =

> use for floor sanding.
> =

> Roland
> =

> =

> ----- Original Message ----- =

> From: "Mark Hanson" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:52 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> =

> =

> > Hi,
> >
> > With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight
> and still wanting braking
> > safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get
> better emergency =

> > braking.
> > It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency
> brake handle just slows
> > the vehicle down. This is what happens on my
> E-Porsche and our diesel
> > Beetle with rear disc brakes. I remember with my
> Electro-Metro which had
> > *drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear
> wheels with the emergency =

> > brake
> > handle.
> >
> > Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the
> main brakes fail? Or =

> > is
> > that just an inherent problem with rear disc
> brakes?
> >
> > have a renewable energy day,
> > Mark
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > Messenger Caf=E9 - open for fun 24/7. Hot games,
> cool activities served =

> > daily.
> > Visit now.
> http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev =

> =

> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> =


_______________________________________________
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Hello Mike,

Tied a big rope to a pole, just kidding.

No, the wheels chocks are not tie. Could never roll over them. Do not pus=
h =

the accelerator down that much to get out of a parking spot.

The accelerator has a very soft start mode.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- =

From: "mike golub" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake


Do you tie anything to wheel chocks?
I have run over them sometimes.

--- Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello Mark,
>
> That is why I have drum brakes on the rear and disc
> on the front. The
> problem with a EV with a manual transmission, there
> is no compression you
> have with a engine where you can have the
> transmission in 1st or reversed
> which may hold the vehicle on a small slope and a
> 2nd back up using a
> emergency brake.
>
> With a EV, you have only one parking brake option,
> so when I am on a steeper
> sloped, I put out a set of wheel chocks which I made
> out of a piece of 4 by
> 4 inch wood that is cut 4 inches long that the face
> is cut at a 45 degree
> angle. Attach one of those heavy 14 grit adhesive
> back sand paper that is
> use for floor sanding.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- =

> From: "Mark Hanson" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:52 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight
> and still wanting braking
> > safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get
> better emergency
> > braking.
> > It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency
> brake handle just slows
> > the vehicle down. This is what happens on my
> E-Porsche and our diesel
> > Beetle with rear disc brakes. I remember with my
> Electro-Metro which had
> > *drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear
> wheels with the emergency
> > brake
> > handle.
> >
> > Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the
> main brakes fail? Or
> > is
> > that just an inherent problem with rear disc
> brakes?
> >
> > have a renewable energy day,
> > Mark
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > Messenger Caf=E9 - open for fun 24/7. Hot games,
> cool activities served
> > daily.
> > Visit now.
> http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev =


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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Hi, Mark. I think the problem is that disc calipers take a bunch of pressu=
re to actuate, so the parking brake cable only works so-so. It is also thi=
s way on my Fiero. We'll have to wait and see how well the wilwood brakes =
John W. is going to use work.

If you are looking to upgrade, check out the rear disc brakes from a late 8=
0's-early 90'2 daytona or laser. They had a small drum brake on the back j=
ust for the parking brake, and a main disc that only activated under the hy=
draulic pressure.
=





David Brandt


----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Hanson <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 1:52:15 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake


Hi,

With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting braking =

safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get better emergency braking.=
=

It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slows =

the vehicle down. This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel =

Beetle with rear disc brakes. I remember with my Electro-Metro which had =

*drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency brak=
e =

handle.

Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail? Or is =

that just an inherent problem with rear disc brakes?

have a renewable energy day,
Mark

_________________________________________________________________
Messenger Caf=E9 =97 open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served d=
aily. =

Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline


=

___________________________________________________________________________=
_________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all =
the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting =


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Discussion Starter #7
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Discussion Starter #8
The standard thing to do is to turn the front wheels so that the car can
hopefully lock into the curb if it starts to roll. Not sure if that would
be enough if you had a soft curb or an especially steep incline.

-----Original Message-----
Hi,

With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting braking
safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get better emergency braking.

It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slows
the vehicle down. This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel
Beetle with rear disc brakes. I remember with my Electro-Metro which had
*drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency brake

handle.

Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail? Or is
that just an inherent problem with rear disc brakes?


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
David Wilker wrote:
> You have the emergency brake on the front brakes? I have never seen that before.

Some Subarus and all Citroens with Hydropneumatic suspension brake the
from wheels with the emergency/parking brake.


--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://ev.nn.cl | Weird Al
|

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Discussion Starter #10
You could have another taperlock adapter made for the front of a motor and =
use a disc brake caliper setup for a lawn tractor. They are about 5 inches=
in diameter and clamp using a cable. I have also seen instances where peo=
ple modify a disc brake to mount on the snout of the axle pinion and actuat=
e with a cable. =


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of David Brandt
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 18:44
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake

Hi, Mark. I think the problem is that disc calipers take a bunch of pressu=
re to actuate, so the parking brake cable only works so-so. It is also thi=
s way on my Fiero. We'll have to wait and see how well the wilwood brakes =
John W. is going to use work.

If you are looking to upgrade, check out the rear disc brakes from a late 8=
0's-early 90'2 daytona or laser. They had a small drum brake on the back j=
ust for the parking brake, and a main disc that only activated under the hy=
draulic pressure.
=





David Brandt


----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Hanson <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 1:52:15 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake


Hi,

With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting braking s=
afety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get better emergency braking. =

It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slows t=
he vehicle down. This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel Beetl=
e with rear disc brakes. I remember with my Electro-Metro which had
*drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency brak=
e handle.

Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail? Or is=
that just an inherent problem with rear disc brakes?

have a renewable energy day,
Mark

_________________________________________________________________
Messenger Caf=E9 - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served dai=
ly. =

Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline


=

___________________________________________________________________________=
_________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all =
the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting =


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Don't forget, any brake on the motor or drive shaft is not safe if there is=
a differential between
the brake and the tires. If one wheel looses traction (resting on sand, ice=
, etc.) the vehicle can
roll. =


Dave Cover

--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[email protected]> wrote:

> You could have another taperlock adapter made for the front of a motor an=
d use a disc brake
> caliper setup for a lawn tractor. They are about 5 inches in diameter an=
d clamp using a cable. =

> I have also seen instances where people modify a disc brake to mount on t=
he snout of the axle
> pinion and actuate with a cable. =

> =

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Beh=
alf Of David Brandt
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 18:44
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> =

> Hi, Mark. I think the problem is that disc calipers take a bunch of pres=
sure to actuate, so the
> parking brake cable only works so-so. It is also this way on my Fiero. =
We'll have to wait and
> see how well the wilwood brakes John W. is going to use work.
> =

> If you are looking to upgrade, check out the rear disc brakes from a late=
80's-early 90'2
> daytona or laser. They had a small drum brake on the back just for the p=
arking brake, and a
> main disc that only activated under the hydraulic pressure.
> =

> =

> =

> =

> =

> David Brandt
> =

> =

> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mark Hanson <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 1:52:15 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> =

> =

> Hi,
> =

> With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting braking=
safety, I'm curious if
> there is a good way to get better emergency braking. =

> It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slows=
the vehicle down. =

> This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel Beetle with rear disc=
brakes. I remember
> with my Electro-Metro which had
> *drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency br=
ake handle.
> =

> Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail? Or =
is that just an
> inherent problem with rear disc brakes?
> =

> have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
> =

> _________________________________________________________________
> Messenger Caf=E9 - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served d=
aily. =

> Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline
> =

> =

> =

> _________________________________________________________________________=
___________
> Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you al=
l the tools to get
> online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting =

> =

> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> =

> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Not necessarily. That theory definitely holds true if the differential is =
an open carrier. If it is a locker or a posi then it will hold just fine. =
You also get the added benefit of a pinion brake of the multiplication the=
ring and pinion assembly provides. Pinion brakes are much more powerful t=
han a drum brake assembly. That is why you see them used a lot in the mons=
ter truck world. =


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of Dave Cover
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:46
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake

Don't forget, any brake on the motor or drive shaft is not safe if there is=
a differential between the brake and the tires. If one wheel looses tracti=
on (resting on sand, ice, etc.) the vehicle can roll. =


Dave Cover

--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[email protected]> wrote:

> You could have another taperlock adapter made for the front of a motor =

> and use a disc brake caliper setup for a lawn tractor. They are about 5 =
inches in diameter and clamp using a cable.
> I have also seen instances where people modify a disc brake to mount =

> on the snout of the axle pinion and actuate with a cable.
> =

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On =

> Behalf Of David Brandt
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 18:44
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> =

> Hi, Mark. I think the problem is that disc calipers take a bunch of =

> pressure to actuate, so the parking brake cable only works so-so. It =

> is also this way on my Fiero. We'll have to wait and see how well the wi=
lwood brakes John W. is going to use work.
> =

> If you are looking to upgrade, check out the rear disc brakes from a =

> late 80's-early 90'2 daytona or laser. They had a small drum brake on =

> the back just for the parking brake, and a main disc that only activated =
under the hydraulic pressure.
> =

> =

> =

> =

> =

> David Brandt
> =

> =

> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mark Hanson <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 1:52:15 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> =

> =

> Hi,
> =

> With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting =

> braking safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get better emergenc=
y braking.
> It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slows=
the vehicle down. =

> This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel Beetle with rear =

> disc brakes. I remember with my Electro-Metro which had
> *drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency br=
ake handle.
> =

> Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail? =

> Or is that just an inherent problem with rear disc brakes?
> =

> have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
> =

> _________________________________________________________________
> Messenger Caf=E9 - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served d=
aily. =

> Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline
> =

> =

> =

> ______________________________________________________________________
> ______________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small =

> Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
> =

> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> =

> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> =


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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Don't lockup differentials rely on the power delivered to lock up. I know i=
f I have a rear wheel
off the ground with my truck, I can spin it by hand, and it does have a loc=
king differential. Same
with my 944. Relying on a lock up differential to hold your car doesn't see=
m safe. And how many
vehicles have this feature? Probably less than you think.

--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Not necessarily. That theory definitely holds true if the differential i=
s an open carrier. If
> it is a locker or a posi then it will hold just fine. You also get the a=
dded benefit of a
> pinion brake of the multiplication the ring and pinion assembly provides.=
Pinion brakes are
> much more powerful than a drum brake assembly. That is why you see them =
used a lot in the
> monster truck world. =

> =

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Beh=
alf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:46
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> =

> Don't forget, any brake on the motor or drive shaft is not safe if there =
is a differential
> between the brake and the tires. If one wheel looses traction (resting on=
sand, ice, etc.) the
> vehicle can roll. =

> =

> Dave Cover
> =

> --- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[email protected]> wrot=
e:
> =

> > You could have another taperlock adapter made for the front of a motor =

> > and use a disc brake caliper setup for a lawn tractor. They are about =
5 inches in diameter
> and clamp using a cable.
> > I have also seen instances where people modify a disc brake to mount =

> > on the snout of the axle pinion and actuate with a cable.
> > =

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On =

> > Behalf Of David Brandt
> > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 18:44
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> > =

> > Hi, Mark. I think the problem is that disc calipers take a bunch of =

> > pressure to actuate, so the parking brake cable only works so-so. It =

> > is also this way on my Fiero. We'll have to wait and see how well the =
wilwood brakes John W.
> is going to use work.
> > =

> > If you are looking to upgrade, check out the rear disc brakes from a =

> > late 80's-early 90'2 daytona or laser. They had a small drum brake on =

> > the back just for the parking brake, and a main disc that only activate=
d under the hydraulic
> pressure.
> > =

> > =

> > =

> > =

> > =

> > David Brandt
> > =

> > =

> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Mark Hanson <[email protected]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 1:52:15 PM
> > Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> > =

> > =

> > Hi,
> > =

> > With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting =

> > braking safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get better emerge=
ncy braking.
> > It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slo=
ws the vehicle down. =

> > This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel Beetle with rear =

> > disc brakes. I remember with my Electro-Metro which had
> > *drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency =
brake handle.
> > =

> > Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail? =

> > Or is that just an inherent problem with rear disc brakes?
> > =

> > have a renewable energy day,
> > Mark
> > =

> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Messenger Caf=E9 - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served=
daily. =

> > Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline
> > =

> > =

> > =

> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > ______________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small =

> > Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
> > =

> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > =

> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > =

> =

> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> =

> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> =


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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I guess it depends on the vehicle. my 300zx won't move if i forget to
release the emergancy brake. (288V zilla 1k warp 9)
it will pick up the back end about 3 inches if I try. LOL

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
In my "ultimate" design, on the gear reducer is an adapted parking pawl.
The parking pawl was created to handle this exact problem.

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