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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I didn't get any EV emails for a day and I knew soething was up. Went in to my settings and
found emails were marked as disabled. It said I'd had too many bounced emails. WTF! I'm not taking
it personal because it seems to be happening to a lot of others. Why is this list so sensitive? I
solved the Yahoo filter problem by redirecting EVDL emails to their own folder, now the EVDL is
the problem.

Since I reset the disabled flag, I've gotten a few emails. The solution seems ridiculous though.
If they feel that I need to be shut off, why do they let me turn myself back on?

DAC

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Discussion Starter #2
On 20 Sep 2007 at 14:59, Dave Cover wrote:

> Went
> in to my settings and found emails were marked as disabled. It said I'd had
> too many bounced emails. Why is this list so sensitive?

Actually, we have the bounce settings set rather liberally, higher tolerance
than the Mailman defaults.

> I solved
> the Yahoo filter problem by redirecting EVDL emails to their own folder, now
> the EVDL is the problem.

Actually, it appears that Yahoo is the problem, not the EVDL. Yahoo
apparently isn't (or at least wasn't) delivering your mail reliably.

Mailman's authors are responsible net citizens and they don't want to waste
bandwidth by sending out mail to hundreds or thousands of invalid email
addresses. This also keeps the system from slowing down delivery to valid,
active "customers."

But they also realize that sometimes mail systems go down or get
overburdened, and sometimes mail will bounce. Mailman's bounce processing
tries to take that into account. The algorithm is a bit complex but it
boils down to this : Once it sees a bounce from you, it starts watching your
account. If the problem goes away, it relaxes; but if bounces continue, it
eventually takes action to protect itself.

Each day that your mail server bounces one or more messages, your "bounce
score" is increased. Some kinds of bounces increase it more than others,
but the key is that on any given day it will only be raised once, no matter
how much mail you bounce that day.

If your email system then recovers and bounces no more messages for 3 days,
your score is set back to zero. This takes care of those rather typical
situations where the mail server crashes at 2:30am and the support crew
reboots it the next morning (after arriving to find a full voicemail box!).

However, if your server bounces another message the next day, the score will
increase again. When it gets to 10 (which, as you can tell from the above,
will take NO FEWER than 10 days), your subscription is suspended. Mailman
uses the same user-accessable mechanism used when you suspend it yourself
for vacations and the like.

Mailman then notifies you by mail that your subscription has been suspended,
and gives directions on how to restart the mail. Not just one notice - if
you don't turn your mail back on, Mailman will keep trying to contact you
every other day for 20 days.

>
> Since I reset the disabled flag, I've gotten a few emails. The solution
> seems ridiculous though. If they feel that I need to be shut off, why do
> they let me turn myself back on?

Mailman is doing two things. First, as mentioned above, it's trying to
avoid wasting bandwidth sending mail to people who can't receive it.
Second, it's trying to get you to pay attention. It wants you to know
there's a problem with your mail and hopes you'll try to fix it.

The assumption is that you'll get in touch with your ISP or mail provider
and find out why messages to you are bouncing, then re-enable your EVDL
subscription. If you go to your configuration page and flip the bit to turn
on your mail, but don't fix the central problem - your mail server's clogs -
it may just happen again.

BTW, if you DON'T respond to Mailman's efforts to contact you and restart
your mail within those 20 days (set to this value because we figure most
people usually aren't on vacation more than a couple of weeks), Mailman
assumes you've abandoned that mail account. Your subscription is deleted
and you have to resubscribe.

I get reports from Mailman on who this happens to. I'd say it's been maybe
a few dozen people - not all that many for a list of over 1,500. Seldom do
I see a name on that list that I recognize; virtually all are apparently
lurkers.

I also see the names of people whose subs are suspended temporarily. As it
happens, I saw David Cover's address on that list recently. I'm pretty sure
I notified him by email of the problem personally. I even included the
error message from Yahoo in the hopes that he could try to find out what the
problem was.

There were, IIRC, four other Yahoo subscribers whose mail bounced in exactly
the same way and who were suspended on the same day. This suggests to me
that Yahoo may have had (may still have) a problem with one particular mail
server - but that's just my guess.

Anyway, the gist of it is - don't blame the EVDL server for looking after
its bandwidth so it can deliver mail to other subscribers in reasonable
time. Rather, place the blame where it belongs - your own email provider.
Find out why they're bouncing messages intended for you.

Look at it this way : without this mechanism, it might be weeks before you
knew you had a mail problem. In the meantime, what other, more important
message might you miss?

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Discussion Starter #3
BTW, I just checked my test EVDL account on Yahoo. I have a few missing
digests from earlier this month - on the 9th, 12th, and 14th.

My bounce score is also 5.0 out of 10.0. This suggests that Yahoo may
indeed be having some mail server problems.

If you'd like to check your bounce score, log in here :

http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/options/ev

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I have msn and ALL the emails are coming thru - its not the list .
----- Original Message -----
From: David Roden (Akron OH USA)<mailto:[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Booted again


On 20 Sep 2007 at 14:59, Dave Cover wrote:

> Went
> in to my settings and found emails were marked as disabled. It said I'd had
> too many bounced emails. Why is this list so sensitive?

Actually, we have the bounce settings set rather liberally, higher tolerance
than the Mailman defaults.

> I solved
> the Yahoo filter problem by redirecting EVDL emails to their own folder, now
> the EVDL is the problem.

Actually, it appears that Yahoo is the problem, not the EVDL. Yahoo
apparently isn't (or at least wasn't) delivering your mail reliably.

Mailman's authors are responsible net citizens and they don't want to waste
bandwidth by sending out mail to hundreds or thousands of invalid email
addresses. This also keeps the system from slowing down delivery to valid,
active "customers."

But they also realize that sometimes mail systems go down or get
overburdened, and sometimes mail will bounce. Mailman's bounce processing
tries to take that into account. The algorithm is a bit complex but it
boils down to this : Once it sees a bounce from you, it starts watching your
account. If the problem goes away, it relaxes; but if bounces continue, it
eventually takes action to protect itself.

Each day that your mail server bounces one or more messages, your "bounce
score" is increased. Some kinds of bounces increase it more than others,
but the key is that on any given day it will only be raised once, no matter
how much mail you bounce that day.

If your email system then recovers and bounces no more messages for 3 days,
your score is set back to zero. This takes care of those rather typical
situations where the mail server crashes at 2:30am and the support crew
reboots it the next morning (after arriving to find a full voicemail box!).

However, if your server bounces another message the next day, the score will
increase again. When it gets to 10 (which, as you can tell from the above,
will take NO FEWER than 10 days), your subscription is suspended. Mailman
uses the same user-accessable mechanism used when you suspend it yourself
for vacations and the like.

Mailman then notifies you by mail that your subscription has been suspended,
and gives directions on how to restart the mail. Not just one notice - if
you don't turn your mail back on, Mailman will keep trying to contact you
every other day for 20 days.

>
> Since I reset the disabled flag, I've gotten a few emails. The solution
> seems ridiculous though. If they feel that I need to be shut off, why do
> they let me turn myself back on?

Mailman is doing two things. First, as mentioned above, it's trying to
avoid wasting bandwidth sending mail to people who can't receive it.
Second, it's trying to get you to pay attention. It wants you to know
there's a problem with your mail and hopes you'll try to fix it.

The assumption is that you'll get in touch with your ISP or mail provider
and find out why messages to you are bouncing, then re-enable your EVDL
subscription. If you go to your configuration page and flip the bit to turn
on your mail, but don't fix the central problem - your mail server's clogs -
it may just happen again.

BTW, if you DON'T respond to Mailman's efforts to contact you and restart
your mail within those 20 days (set to this value because we figure most
people usually aren't on vacation more than a couple of weeks), Mailman
assumes you've abandoned that mail account. Your subscription is deleted
and you have to resubscribe.

I get reports from Mailman on who this happens to. I'd say it's been maybe
a few dozen people - not all that many for a list of over 1,500. Seldom do
I see a name on that list that I recognize; virtually all are apparently
lurkers.

I also see the names of people whose subs are suspended temporarily. As it
happens, I saw David Cover's address on that list recently. I'm pretty sure
I notified him by email of the problem personally. I even included the
error message from Yahoo in the hopes that he could try to find out what the
problem was.

There were, IIRC, four other Yahoo subscribers whose mail bounced in exactly
the same way and who were suspended on the same day. This suggests to me
that Yahoo may have had (may still have) a problem with one particular mail
server - but that's just my guess.

Anyway, the gist of it is - don't blame the EVDL server for looking after
its bandwidth so it can deliver mail to other subscribers in reasonable
time. Rather, place the blame where it belongs - your own email provider.
Find out why they're bouncing messages intended for you.

Look at it this way : without this mechanism, it might be weeks before you
knew you had a mail problem. In the meantime, what other, more important
message might you miss?

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/<http://www.evdl.org/>


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Usually this is your service provider, not Yahoogroups. You see, Yahoogroups
takes "bounce" messages at face value. Thus, when my service provider was
doing work on their servers (over 3 months) I had to constantly log into
Yahoogroups and take myself off of the bounced list.

Once you've been bounced from one list, you are bounced from them all.

I don't know if it's still true, but it used to be that (after a bounce) if
the admin of that group removed you, you were dropped from all lists. Get an
inexperienced moderator and you could find yourself in difficulty. <g>

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Booted again


> BTW, I just checked my test EVDL account on Yahoo. I have a few missing
> digests from earlier this month - on the 9th, 12th, and 14th.
>
> My bounce score is also 5.0 out of 10.0. This suggests that Yahoo may
> indeed be having some mail server problems.
>
> If you'd like to check your bounce score, log in here :
>
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/options/ev
>
> David Roden
> EVDL Administrator
> http://www.evdl.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, it was my turn to get booted. I looked at my
inbox and only had 2 messages. I logged in and found
that I'd been booted due to too many bounces. I even
have all messages from the list directed to a special
folder and that all spam is merely saved to the bulk
mail folder. I think yahoo is having issues or
something.

David Nelson

--- "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> BTW, I just checked my test EVDL account on Yahoo.
> I have a few missing
> digests from earlier this month - on the 9th, 12th,
> and 14th.
>
> My bounce score is also 5.0 out of 10.0. This
> suggests that Yahoo may
> indeed be having some mail server problems.
>
> If you'd like to check your bounce score, log in
> here :
>
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/options/ev
>
> David Roden
> EVDL Administrator
> http://www.evdl.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


David D. Nelson
[email protected]

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1328


____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html



_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
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Discussion Starter #7
Just FYI, I get digests on my GMail account, and no problems at all; all of
them have gone to my inbox. I also don't see a bounce score in my options,
so I assume it's zero.


Tim

----
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:28:07 -0400
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" < [email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Booted again
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List < [email protected]>


BTW, I just checked my test EVDL account on Yahoo. I have a few missing
digests from earlier this month - on the 9th, 12th, and 14th.

My bounce score is also 5.0 out of 10.0. This suggests that Yahoo may
indeed be having some mail server problems.

If you'd like to check your bounce score, log in here :

http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/options/ev

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
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