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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone have any experience with Braille batteries? 31 Amp hour rating
@ 21 lbs is interesting...

http://www.brailleauto.com/


B3121 No-Weight Extreme Battery Specs
------------------------------

Weight: 21 lbs

Length: 6.6

Width: 5.2

Height: 6.8

Pulse Cranking Amps: 1380

Cranking Amps: 742

Cold Cranking Amps: 550

Amp Hour Rating: 31

Warranty: 1 Year Free Replacement / 2 Year Limited Pro-Rated Extended
Coverage



About Braille Batteries & the B3121 Model Development:

Braille Batteries are used by racers all over the world in the FIA WRC, FIA
Formula Racing, Speed World Challenge Series, SCCA ProRally Series, SCCA
Regional and National Racing, NASA Touring Cars, NIRA, NOPI and Battle of
the Imports Drag Racing Series. Braille Batteries are also designed for
deep-cycle use in premium vehicles with enhanced reliability and
performance. The Spec B3121 is also perfect for daily street use, even in
colder climates. Braille developed the B3121 to excel at competition use and
in situations where the battery is relied on to perform at a higher level
than other batteries. This includes extreme audio systems and insane motors.



The B3121 features an industry leading energy to weight ratio. Enhanced Mat
Technology (more surface area on the lead plates) combined with calcium full
frame power path grids (increase cranking power), yields over 1300 Pulse
Cranking Amps. With a weight of only 21 pounds/9.5kg, the B2015 is 10-30
pounds lighter than a standard battery of equal power. It also has a very
high reserve time of over 1he 15 minutes to ensure the power to start even
after using the vehicles accessories.



Durability was also designed into this battery. Using high density oxide,
Braille was able to offer a battery with true deep-cycling ability over the
life of the battery. Heavy duty vibration resistant power posts resist
cracking and deterioration common to many lightweight batteries used in
harsh automotive environments. The B3121 is a sealed unit that can be
mounted in any position safely using its adjustable automotive terminal
posts. Braille also includes a one-year free replacement limited
warrantythat is not pro-rated. The B3121 also includes pro-rated
coverage over a two
year period.
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Discussion Starter #2
Does anyone have any experience with Braille batteries? 31 Amp hour rating
@ 21 lbs is interesting...

http://www.brailleauto.com/


B3121 No-Weight Extreme Battery Specs
------------------------------

Weight: 21 lbs

Length: 6.6

Width: 5.2

Height: 6.8

Pulse Cranking Amps: 1380

Cranking Amps: 742

Cold Cranking Amps: 550

Amp Hour Rating: 31

Warranty: 1 Year Free Replacement / 2 Year Limited Pro-Rated Extended
Coverage



About Braille Batteries & the B3121 Model Development:

Braille Batteries are used by racers all over the world in the FIA WRC, FIA
Formula Racing, Speed World Challenge Series, SCCA ProRally Series, SCCA
Regional and National Racing, NASA Touring Cars, NIRA, NOPI and Battle of
the Imports Drag Racing Series. Braille Batteries are also designed for
deep-cycle use in premium vehicles with enhanced reliability and
performance. The Spec B3121 is also perfect for daily street use, even in
colder climates. Braille developed the B3121 to excel at competition use and
in situations where the battery is relied on to perform at a higher level
than other batteries. This includes extreme audio systems and insane motors.




The B3121 features an industry leading energy to weight ratio. Enhanced Mat
Technology (more surface area on the lead plates) combined with calcium full
frame power path grids (increase cranking power), yields over 1300 Pulse
Cranking Amps. With a weight of only 21 pounds/9.5kg, the B2015 is 10-30
pounds lighter than a standard battery of equal power. It also has a very
high reserve time of over 1he 15 minutes to ensure the power to start even
after using the vehicles accessories.



Durability was also designed into this battery. Using high density oxide,
Braille was able to offer a battery with true deep-cycling ability over the
life of the battery. Heavy duty vibration resistant power posts resist
cracking and deterioration common to many lightweight batteries used in
harsh automotive environments. The B3121 is a sealed unit that can be
mounted in any position safely using its adjustable automotive terminal
posts. Braille also includes a one-year free replacement limited
warrantythat is not pro-rated. The B3121 also includes pro-rated
coverage over a two
year period.
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Discussion Starter #3
[EVDL] Braille Batteries

Anyone know anything about the Braille battery. They
have a 31AH 12V that is really light weight. Carbon
fiber case, etc. Batteries are used in F1 and other
racing so I guess are really tough. Just wondering if
anyone has tested any of these. A buddy pair would
get 62AH and weigh in around 40 lbs.

Thanks


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Discussion Starter #4
Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries

That weight sounds about right for a good lead-acid battery.
My 110 Ah 12V UB121100 weigh 71 lbs, so the relative weight
is the same:
62Ah / 40 lbs = 1.55 Ah per lbs
110Ah / 71 lbs = 1.549 Ah per lbs

However, for a small battery (which always has more case
weight relative to the battery weight) this weight balance
is pretty good.
The real question is if someone has experience with deep
cycle use of these batteries because no matter how good
the weight, if they do not last at least 300 full cycles,
there is no point in using them in an EV.

Success,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joel Silverman
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:03 PM
To: EV List
Subject: [EVDL] Braille Batteries

Anyone know anything about the Braille battery. They have a 31AH 12V that is really light weight. Carbon fiber case, etc. Batteries are used in F1 and other racing so I guess are really tough. Just wondering if anyone has tested any of these. A buddy pair would get 62AH and weigh in around 40 lbs.

Thanks


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Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #5
Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries

I have two for in using them in an EV.

Braille B14115 12V*904A/11.5 lbs = 952 W/lb

Hawker 16XE 12V*750A/13.5 lbs = 667 W/lb

For a dual 30 string pack the Braille weight would be 684 lbs compared to the Hawker 810 lbs.

The weight savings alone of 126 lbs is 1/10th second off a 1/4 mile time.

And they make more power too for dual strings of 30:

Braille B14115 2*30*12*904/746 = 873 electrical HP

Hawker 16XE 2*30*12*750/746 = 724 electrical HP

So 126 lbs less weight and 149 more electrical HP, two reasons :)

More better to spank little white Datsun's with.

Mike (already bought Hawkers) Willmon

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 6:45 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; EV List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries
>
>
> That weight sounds about right for a good lead-acid battery.
> My 110 Ah 12V UB121100 weigh 71 lbs, so the relative weight
> is the same:
> 62Ah / 40 lbs = 1.55 Ah per lbs
> 110Ah / 71 lbs = 1.549 Ah per lbs
>
> However, for a small battery (which always has more case
> weight relative to the battery weight) this weight balance
> is pretty good.
> The real question is if someone has experience with deep
> cycle use of these batteries because no matter how good
> the weight, if they do not last at least 300 full cycles,
> there is no point in using them in an EV.
>
> Success,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joel Silverman
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:03 PM
> To: EV List
> Subject: [EVDL] Braille Batteries
>
> Anyone know anything about the Braille battery. They have a 31AH 12V that is really light weight. Carbon fiber case,
> etc. Batteries are used in F1 and other racing so I guess are really tough. Just wondering if anyone has tested any
> of these. A buddy pair would get 62AH and weigh in around 40 lbs.
>
> Thanks

>

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries

Hey Mike,

You really think you'll see 12 volts at 750 or 900
amps?

Regards,

Jeff M



--- Mike Willmon <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have two for in using them in an EV.
>
> Braille B14115 12V*904A/11.5 lbs = 952 W/lb
>
> Hawker 16XE 12V*750A/13.5 lbs = 667 W/lb
>
> For a dual 30 string pack the Braille weight would
> be 684 lbs compared to the Hawker 810 lbs.
>
> The weight savings alone of 126 lbs is 1/10th second
> off a 1/4 mile time.
>
> And they make more power too for dual strings of 30:
>
> Braille B14115 2*30*12*904/746 = 873 electrical HP
>
> Hawker 16XE 2*30*12*750/746 = 724 electrical HP
>
> So 126 lbs less weight and 149 more electrical HP,
> two reasons :)
>
> More better to spank little white Datsun's with.
>
> Mike (already bought Hawkers) Willmon
>




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Discussion Starter #9
Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries

Absolutely not. But not knowing what each would sag to at those values of current I have to use nominal values for the purposes of comparison ;-)

You have a point though since the voltage sag of the Brailles at 900 A could be more than the Hawkers at 750A to the point that power is equal. The weight is still less however, and so I would almost expect that to be the case.

I would like to see more data on these :)

Mike W.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Major <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, October 12, 2007 5:12 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>

>
> Hey Mike,
>
> You really think you'll see 12 volts at 750 or 900
> amps?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff M
>
>
>
> --- Mike Willmon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I have two for in using them in an EV.
> >
> > Braille B14115 12V*904A/11.5 lbs = 952 W/lb
> >
> > Hawker 16XE 12V*750A/13.5 lbs = 667 W/lb
> >
> > For a dual 30 string pack the Braille weight would
> > be 684 lbs compared to the Hawker 810 lbs.
> >
> > The weight savings alone of 126 lbs is 1/10th second
> > off a 1/4 mile time.
> >
> > And they make more power too for dual strings of 30:
> >
> > Braille B14115 2*30*12*904/746 = 873 electrical HP
> >
> > Hawker 16XE 2*30*12*750/746 = 724 electrical HP
> >
> > So 126 lbs less weight and 149 more electrical HP,
> > two reasons :)
> >
> > More better to spank little white Datsun's with.
> >
> > Mike (already bought Hawkers) Willmon
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Need a vacation? Get great deals
> to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
> http://travel.yahoo.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of MIKE WILLMON
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 1:58 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries
>
> Absolutely not. But not knowing what each would sag to at those values
> of current I have to use nominal values for the purposes of comparison
> ;-)
>
> You have a point though since the voltage sag of the Brailles at 900 A
> could be more than the Hawkers at 750A to the point that power is equal.
> The weight is still less however, and so I would almost expect that to
> be the case.
>
> I would like to see more data on these :)
>
> Mike W.
>

I'm going to go out on a limb and make the assumption that the Braille's are either rebadged Hawkers, or built for Braille by Hawker.
There's just to many similarities.


--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries

There is not a single spec that is the same though.
None of the dimensions line up with Hawker batteries.
None of the weights line up with any of the Hawker batteries.
None of the peak current draws line up with the Hawker Batteries.
The terminals are different than all the Hawker batteries.
And the price is almost double that of Hawker batteries.

Someone is more proud of these than Hawker is of theirs.

I think somebody else makes these batteries, I just can't prove it right now.

Mike W.




Tim Humphrey wrote
>
> I'm going to go out on a limb and make the assumption that the
> Braille's are either rebadged Hawkers, or built for Braille by
> Hawker.
> There's just to many similarities.
>
>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries

Mike,

What do you think of this?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2353060

--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY



>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of MIKE WILLMON
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 3:44 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries
>
> There is not a single spec that is the same though.
> None of the dimensions line up with Hawker batteries.
> None of the weights line up with any of the Hawker batteries.
> None of the peak current draws line up with the Hawker Batteries.
> The terminals are different than all the Hawker batteries.
> And the price is almost double that of Hawker batteries.
>
> Someone is more proud of these than Hawker is of theirs.
>
> I think somebody else makes these batteries, I just can't prove it right
> now.
>
> Mike W.
>
>
>
>
> Tim Humphrey wrote
>>
>> I'm going to go out on a limb and make the assumption that the
>> Braille's are either rebadged Hawkers, or built for Braille by
>> Hawker.
>> There's just to many similarities.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stay Charged!
>> Hump
>>


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Discussion Starter #13
Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries

Wow, so its a rebadged DEKA ETX14.
Which makes sense since no body makes their own batteries.
They're either Enersys or Deka, eh?
Gotta look into that one.
If like they say, the price is $60 that could be a good deal.

Thanks
Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Humphrey <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, October 12, 2007 1:31 pm
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries
To: EV <[email protected]>

>
> Mike,
>
> What do you think of this?
>
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2353060
>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:ev-
> [email protected]] On
> > Behalf Of MIKE WILLMON
> > Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 3:44 PM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries
> >
> > There is not a single spec that is the same though.
> > None of the dimensions line up with Hawker batteries.
> > None of the weights line up with any of the Hawker batteries.
> > None of the peak current draws line up with the Hawker Batteries.
> > The terminals are different than all the Hawker batteries.
> > And the price is almost double that of Hawker batteries.
> >
> > Someone is more proud of these than Hawker is of theirs.
> >
> > I think somebody else makes these batteries, I just can't prove
> it right
> > now.
> >
> > Mike W.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tim Humphrey wrote
> >>
> >> I'm going to go out on a limb and make the assumption that the
> >> Braille's are either rebadged Hawkers, or built for Braille by
> >> Hawker.
> >> There's just to many similarities.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Stay Charged!
> >> Hump
> >>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries

The Deka ETX14 only spec's at 200 CCA. So if these are rebadged from East Pen/Deka then they must have some some special work to them, thus the reason for the higher prices.

I wouldn't put any of the Deka Powersport batteries up against a Hawker based on the Deka Specs.



----- Original Message -----
From: MIKE WILLMON <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, October 12, 2007 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>

> Wow, so its a rebadged DEKA ETX14.
> Which makes sense since no body makes their own batteries.
> They're either Enersys or Deka, eh?
> Gotta look into that one.
> If like they say, the price is $60 that could be a good deal.
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim Humphrey <[email protected]>
> Date: Friday, October 12, 2007 1:31 pm
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries
> To: EV <[email protected]>
>
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > What do you think of this?
> >
> > http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2353060
> >
> > --
> > Stay Charged!
> > Hump
> > I-5, Blossvale NY
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [email protected] [mailto:ev-
> > [email protected]] On
> > > Behalf Of MIKE WILLMON
> > > Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 3:44 PM
> > > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Braille Batteries
> > >
> > > There is not a single spec that is the same though.
> > > None of the dimensions line up with Hawker batteries.
> > > None of the weights line up with any of the Hawker batteries.
> > > None of the peak current draws line up with the Hawker Batteries.
> > > The terminals are different than all the Hawker batteries.
> > > And the price is almost double that of Hawker batteries.
> > >
> > > Someone is more proud of these than Hawker is of theirs.
> > >
> > > I think somebody else makes these batteries, I just can't prove
> > it right
> > > now.
> > >
> > > Mike W.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tim Humphrey wrote
> > >>
> > >> I'm going to go out on a limb and make the assumption that the
> > >> Braille's are either rebadged Hawkers, or built for Braille by
> > >> Hawker.
> > >> There's just to many similarities.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Stay Charged!
> > >> Hump
> > >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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