[EVDL List]

rather, charging at the campgrounds:

Here in the beautiful Daytona Beach area, campgrounds abound. On my way back from a client today in my Gizmo EV, I stopped in and parlayed with the campground clerk. I told her of the interest in using the facilities. Her primary answer was "I have no problem with that, but it's not in the computer" and then offered to pass my card along to the regional manager for a more effective analysis.

She showed me the outlets, a pair of 20a 110v on one side and a 30 amp on the other, but could not tell me if it was 220v or 110v, so I'm guessing 110v. The outlet was two prongs in an inverted V shape with the ground lug below. She also noted that her "big monster" spaces have 50 amp service, with four prongs, so I'm guessing that's 220v.

She also noted that the owner of this particular campground has a chain of forty or so camping spots up the east coast of the United States with a couple inland in some place called Texas, I think. She suggested that if it goes in the computer, it goes everywhere.

I now await a call-back from the next level of management, and I'm hoping that he has as much a positive attitude as this particular clerk. This campground is about 2 miles from me, so it's unlikely that I'll use it, but for an emergency charge it would be great to know it's there.

fred
daytona beach, fl
Gizmo EV
Xebra EV
WAW velomobile HPV




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[EVDL List]

How about parking meter style charging. You put quarters in for a given
amount (time) of charge? These could be anywhere; at the campgrounds,
parking lot's, restaurants, shopping locations, where ever. GFCI protected
outlets, 120v, 20 amps would provide opportunity charging for most of us.
You could even safely provide a breaker reset button on the side so a user
could tweek his charging to as high a level as possible without fear of
loosing power. Reset and adjust until you find a the best charging level.

Dave Cover, looking for opportunities everywhere

fred <[email protected]> wrote:

> rather, charging at the campgrounds:
>
> Here in the beautiful Daytona Beach area, campgrounds abound. On my way
> back from a client today in my Gizmo EV, I stopped in and parlayed with the
> campground clerk. I told her of the interest in using the facilities. Her
> primary answer was "I have no problem with that, but it's not in the
> computer" and then offered to pass my card along to the regional manager for
> a more effective analysis.
>
> She showed me the outlets, a pair of 20a 110v on one side and a 30 amp on
> the other, but could not tell me if it was 220v or 110v, so I'm guessing
> 110v. The outlet was two prongs in an inverted V shape with the ground lug
> below. She also noted that her "big monster" spaces have 50 amp service,
> with four prongs, so I'm guessing that's 220v.
>
> She also noted that the owner of this particular campground has a chain of
> forty or so camping spots up the east coast of the United States with a
> couple inland in some place called Texas, I think. She suggested that if it
> goes in the computer, it goes everywhere.
>
> I now await a call-back from the next level of management, and I'm hoping
> that he has as much a positive attitude as this particular clerk. This
> campground is about 2 miles from me, so it's unlikely that I'll use it, but
> for an emergency charge it would be great to know it's there.
>
> fred
> daytona beach, fl
> Gizmo EV
> Xebra EV
> WAW velomobile HPV
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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[EVDL List]

> She showed me the outlets, a pair of 20a 110v on one side and a 30 amp on
> the other, but could not tell me if it was 220v or 110v, so I'm guessing
> 110v. The outlet was two prongs in an inverted V shape with the ground lug
> below. She also noted that her "big monster" spaces have 50 amp service,
> with four prongs, so I'm guessing that's 220v.


The standard 30A outlet at RV parks (looks like what your describing) is
110V, often called a "trailer outlet/trailer plug" at hardware
stores/Walmart/etc.

The standard 50A outlet is a NEMA 14-50, which is also a pseudo EV
standard. It is a 220V outlet.




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[EVDL List]

> How about parking meter style charging. You put quarters in for a given
> amount (time) of charge? These could be anywhere; at the campgrounds,
> parking lot's, restaurants, shopping locations, where ever.

I don't think they have this type of hardware in the US at this time.
I do know that 20 years ago a lot of houses in England had coin operated
meters. You'd be sitting there watching the telly when <click> the lights
go out. Usually followed by "Damn, anybody got 50p?"



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[EVDL List]

"dave cover" <[email protected]> wrote:

>How about parking meter style charging. You put quarters in for a given
>amount (time) of charge? These could be anywhere; at the campgrounds,
>parking lot's, restaurants, shopping locations, where ever. GFCI protected
>outlets, 120v, 20 amps would provide opportunity charging for most of us.
>You could even safely provide a breaker reset button on the side so a user
>could tweek his charging to as high a level as possible without fear of
>loosing power. Reset and adjust until you find a the best charging level.
>

I consider that kind of complication involving installing new hardware to be
Phase II. Phase I is simply to get the ball rolling, to make campgrounds
aware of EVers and aware of how much money they can make from otherwise
non-revenue-generating camping slots. Make it trivially easy to say YES the
first time and subsequent enhancements will follow.

You definitely do NOT want to be confined to GFI outlets. That is, unless you
like standing there in damp humid weather cursing the infernal gadget because
it keeps tripping because your extension cords have absorbed moisture. BTDT
many times with my concession stand.

The 30 amp 120 volt "RV outlet" is how we get around those despicable GFI
things. It is practically impossible to keep a GFI un-tripped for a day when
an RV is plugged in. Just too much leakage all over the rig.

In my RV (and concession stand) I carry an "electrical survival kit" that
enables me to bypass GFIs when there is no other option. Such as staying at a
friend's house for a couple of days. There is a "reverse jesus" cord that
consists of a female 30 amp outlet, a short length of SO cord and heavy gator
clips. I simply pop the cover off the GFI outlet, optionally loosen the
mounting screws a little and tap onto the incoming terminals. Viola! Instant
bypass. I have been known to move the wires from the "LINE" side to the
"LOAD" side of the GFI which makes it still appear to work but it doesn't cut
off the juice.

Other items in my kit include a variety of breakers attached to female RV
outlets. The ground and neutral leads are attached to a gator clip that I can
easily grab the ground bus with. This works when the breaker panel is in the
garage and there is no other suitable outlet.

Another accessory is a "Reverse Jesus Cord with a Breaker". This is designed
to be clipped directly to the utility drop at the weatherhead or alternately,
directly to the main breaker panel utility connection with a non-standard
panel. The breaker is in the circuit for obvious reasons.

I use this to tap a weatherhead only with my concession operation in the
situation where I've paid for power but the amateur noob promoters ignored my
power request when I signed up and only provided 120 volts through GFIs and 20
amp breakers. I need 30 amps, preferably 240 but I can survive on 120. With
this gadget, I simply climb the temporary power pole and clamp onto the raw
utility power.

This bypasses the meter (when there is a meter on every pole) so I'd not do it
any place where I'd not paid for power. It's certainly been a life saver in
the situations where I had to use it.

Another gadget that has proved invaluable at times is a "breaker tripper".
This is a little box that contains a very heavy toggle switch (actually a
manual motor starter), a 60 amp breaker (half of a 240 amp 3 pole breaker)
connected to a length of cord and a male 120 volt plug. The switch and
breaker are wired in series and connected across the line (across the black
and white conductor) of the cord.

This is used to trip the breaker feeding the branch, for example, to remove
the GFI from a deep box so that the reverse Jesus cord can be connected. In
an unfamiliar commercial establishment, it's not cool to go down a big breaker
panel randomly flipping breakers, looking for the right one.

With this unit, I simply plug it in, flip the switch and the short circuit
instantly trips the panel breaker. For the rare instance where the breaker
malfunctions or there isn't a breaker (I've found #14 wire split-bolted onto
1-0 cable in a factory before), the 60 amp breaker will trip an instant later
if the panel breaker doesn't.

After the wiring work is done, simply go to the panel and reset the tripped
breaker. It's nice to mark the breaker with a Sharpie for the next guy. I
leave the box plugged in and the switch closed while I'm attaching my
temporary connection, just in case someone tries to reset the breaker on me.
This is in addition to tagging the breaker out. Always carry tag-out tags.

Other tricks include a 5kVA dry transformer on wheels that lets me tap 480
volt welding outlets - handy when doing private catering at manufacturing
facilities. Probably not EV-practical but handy to have in my catering truck.

We concessionaires and traveling RVers (as opposed to camping RVers) have been
finding "opportunity power" for years and so we've worked out a few tricks
that can be used by EV drivers.

Some folks might find this excessive but consider just one situation. You get
permission from a shop owner to opportunity charge and you really need 240 but
his welder is hard-wired and there is no outlet. With the reverse Jesus cord,
you can pop the cover off the air compressor's motor starter or the AC's
condensing unit, clip on and be charging in seconds.

John

--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
There are only 10 types of people in this world
Those who understand binary and those who don't.


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[EVDL List]

Some RV parks are already listed on www.evchargernews.com
-- go there, and enter "rv park" in the Google search bar.

We have listed RV parks that EV drivers have actually used, and
reported good experience. Some RV parks are not EV-friendly (some
even EV-hostile!), so we don't try to list every RV park, just those
that have proven EV-friendly.

If more RV parks are determined to be EV friendly, especially if they
have actually been used, fill out the form at
http://www.evchargernews.com/chargerform.txt
and send it in. Attaching a few photos would be good.

I've charged EV1s and RAV4 EVs at several RV parks, using their 14-50
receptacles and a portableized charger.

Tom Dowling
www.evchargernews.com

and
www.evchargermaps.com



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:15 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] camping at the charging station

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:36:13 -0400, "dave cover" <[email protected]>

wrote:

>How about parking meter style charging. You put quarters in for a
given
>amount (time) of charge? These could be anywhere; at the campgrounds,
>parking lot's, restaurants, shopping locations, where ever. GFCI
protected
>outlets, 120v, 20 amps would provide opportunity charging for most of
us.
>You could even safely provide a breaker reset button on the side so a
user
>could tweek his charging to as high a level as possible without fear
of
>loosing power. Reset and adjust until you find a the best charging
level.
>

I consider that kind of complication involving installing new hardware
to be
Phase II. Phase I is simply to get the ball rolling, to make
campgrounds
aware of EVers and aware of how much money they can make from
otherwise
non-revenue-generating camping slots. Make it trivially easy to say
YES the
first time and subsequent enhancements will follow.

You definitely do NOT want to be confined to GFI outlets. That is,
unless you
like standing there in damp humid weather cursing the infernal gadget
because
it keeps tripping because your extension cords have absorbed moisture.
BTDT
many times with my concession stand.

The 30 amp 120 volt "RV outlet" is how we get around those despicable
GFI
things. It is practically impossible to keep a GFI un-tripped for a
day when
an RV is plugged in. Just too much leakage all over the rig.

In my RV (and concession stand) I carry an "electrical survival kit"
that
enables me to bypass GFIs when there is no other option. Such as
staying at a
friend's house for a couple of days. There is a "reverse jesus" cord
that
consists of a female 30 amp outlet, a short length of SO cord and
heavy gator
clips. I simply pop the cover off the GFI outlet, optionally loosen
the
mounting screws a little and tap onto the incoming terminals. Viola!
Instant
bypass. I have been known to move the wires from the "LINE" side to
the
"LOAD" side of the GFI which makes it still appear to work but it
doesn't cut
off the juice.

Other items in my kit include a variety of breakers attached to female
RV
outlets. The ground and neutral leads are attached to a gator clip
that I can
easily grab the ground bus with. This works when the breaker panel is
in the
garage and there is no other suitable outlet.

Another accessory is a "Reverse Jesus Cord with a Breaker". This is
designed
to be clipped directly to the utility drop at the weatherhead or
alternately,
directly to the main breaker panel utility connection with a
non-standard
panel. The breaker is in the circuit for obvious reasons.

I use this to tap a weatherhead only with my concession operation in
the
situation where I've paid for power but the amateur noob promoters
ignored my
power request when I signed up and only provided 120 volts through
GFIs and 20
amp breakers. I need 30 amps, preferably 240 but I can survive on
120. With
this gadget, I simply climb the temporary power pole and clamp onto
the raw
utility power.

This bypasses the meter (when there is a meter on every pole) so I'd
not do it
any place where I'd not paid for power. It's certainly been a life
saver in
the situations where I had to use it.

Another gadget that has proved invaluable at times is a "breaker
tripper".
This is a little box that contains a very heavy toggle switch
(actually a
manual motor starter), a 60 amp breaker (half of a 240 amp 3 pole
breaker)
connected to a length of cord and a male 120 volt plug. The switch
and
breaker are wired in series and connected across the line (across the
black
and white conductor) of the cord.

This is used to trip the breaker feeding the branch, for example, to
remove
the GFI from a deep box so that the reverse Jesus cord can be
connected. In
an unfamiliar commercial establishment, it's not cool to go down a big
breaker
panel randomly flipping breakers, looking for the right one.

With this unit, I simply plug it in, flip the switch and the short
circuit
instantly trips the panel breaker. For the rare instance where the
breaker
malfunctions or there isn't a breaker (I've found #14 wire
split-bolted onto
1-0 cable in a factory before), the 60 amp breaker will trip an
instant later
if the panel breaker doesn't.

After the wiring work is done, simply go to the panel and reset the
tripped
breaker. It's nice to mark the breaker with a Sharpie for the next
guy. I
leave the box plugged in and the switch closed while I'm attaching my
temporary connection, just in case someone tries to reset the breaker
on me.
This is in addition to tagging the breaker out. Always carry tag-out
tags.

Other tricks include a 5kVA dry transformer on wheels that lets me tap
480
volt welding outlets - handy when doing private catering at
manufacturing
facilities. Probably not EV-practical but handy to have in my
catering truck.

We concessionaires and traveling RVers (as opposed to camping RVers)
have been
finding "opportunity power" for years and so we've worked out a few
tricks
that can be used by EV drivers.

Some folks might find this excessive but consider just one situation.
You get
permission from a shop owner to opportunity charge and you really need
240 but
his welder is hard-wired and there is no outlet. With the reverse
Jesus cord,
you can pop the cover off the air compressor's motor starter or the
AC's
condensing unit, clip on and be charging in seconds.

John

--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
There are only 10 types of people in this world
Those who understand binary and those who don't.


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev