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Discussion Starter #1
Osmo,
My LeCar with a solid coupler just failed. The splined shaft stripped out of
the coupler after a year and 4M miles.
I replaced it with another one the same, but now that I have seen the
failure, will build one using a clutch disk attached to a QD bushing with 1
1/8" bore that mounts on the motor shaft. The springs in the clutch disk
should prevent this type of failure.
Clutchless has been great, just need to make it stand up better.

Whose coupler was in the photo you sent? Details?
JLC
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:49:11 +0200
> From: "Osmo S." <[email protected]>
> Subject: [EVDL] clutchless coupling with cushion
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> I would appreciate your comments about the best way to make a
> cushioning coupler - by retaining the original clutch springs
>
> http://www.electric-lemon.com/files/images/Coupler.jpg
>
> or by using some sort of lovejoy coupling with rubber cushion:
>
> http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/content.aspx?id=206
>
> ?
>
> My neighbour just had a clutch failure in his ICE: one of the springs
> came off. How common is this? And obiously the spring system has a
> limited lifespan (near the bottom of the page):
>
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/clutch/index.html
>
> The rubber donut in a lovejoy coupler propably looses its flexibility
> gradually. I didn?t find any information about this from the
> manufacturer though.
>
> And how important this cushioning feature is anyway? Anyone have had
> tranny failure or other problems because of a solid coupler?
>
>
> Thanks!
> Osmo

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Discussion Starter #2
>
> Whose coupler was in the photo you sent? Details?
> JLC

That was mine, you can find some more details on my website. I haven't
had a chance to test it for more than a few runs up and down my
driveway on a single battery so I really can't tell how well it will
hold up over time. My thought while building it was to retain as much
damping as possible to save my fragile Fiat transmission.

-Peter
--
www.electric-lemon.com

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Discussion Starter #3
4M miles in 1 year!? So, was that pretty much a constant .6 mach 24
hours a day, or did you take breaks? My God, how long is your commute!?

(I could keep making bad jokes, but those two seem sufficient.)

Jay Caplan wrote:
> Osmo,
> My LeCar with a solid coupler just failed. The splined shaft stripped out of
> the coupler after a year and 4M miles.
> I replaced it with another one the same, but now that I have seen the
> failure, will build one using a clutch disk attached to a QD bushing with 1
> 1/8" bore that mounts on the motor shaft. The springs in the clutch disk
> should prevent this type of failure.
> Clutchless has been great, just need to make it stand up better.
>
> Whose coupler was in the photo you sent? Details?
> JLC
> >
> > Message: 15
> > Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:49:11 +0200
> > From: "Osmo S." <[email protected]>
> > Subject: [EVDL] clutchless coupling with cushion
> > To: [email protected]
> > Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
> >
> > I would appreciate your comments about the best way to make a
> > cushioning coupler - by retaining the original clutch springs
> >
> > http://www.electric-lemon.com/files/images/Coupler.jpg
> >
> > or by using some sort of lovejoy coupling with rubber cushion:
> >
> > http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/content.aspx?id=206
> >
> > ?
> >
> > My neighbour just had a clutch failure in his ICE: one of the springs
> > came off. How common is this? And obiously the spring system has a
> > limited lifespan (near the bottom of the page):
> >
> > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/clutch/index.html
> >
> > The rubber donut in a lovejoy coupler propably looses its flexibility
> > gradually. I didn?t find any information about this from the
> > manufacturer though.
> >
> > And how important this cushioning feature is anyway? Anyone have had
> > tranny failure or other problems because of a solid coupler?
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Osmo
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #4
does it get easier to "down shift" with a clutch and flywheel set up?
I am using a clutchless lash up and I can "up shift" pretty good, but down
shifting is a bear.
Can someone comment?
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Discussion Starter #5
> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:43:26 -0700
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] clutchless
>
> does it get easier to "down shift" with a clutch and flywheel set up?
> I am using a clutchless lash up and I can "up shift" pretty good, but down
> shifting is a bear.
> Can someone comment?


Yes - it's very easy to downshift with a working clutch - people do it in ICE cars all the time. Some people claim that going clutchless works fine with EVs, and some have trouble. It probably depends on the particular transmission. ( and, how much of rush you are in to change gears).

Phil

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Discussion Starter #6
Why do you want to downshift? Unless you have a very steep hill, a properly
designed electric motor has the torque to handle it easily. And you don't
need to downshift to turn corners, either.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Shepherd" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 4:43 PM
Subject: [EVDL] clutchless


> does it get easier to "down shift" with a clutch and flywheel set up?
> I am using a clutchless lash up and I can "up shift" pretty good, but down
> shifting is a bear.
> Can someone comment?
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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Discussion Starter #7
Hey,

Just like in an ICE version in order to "syncro-shift" you need to match RPM either by waiting for the trans input to reach the engine speed or by bringing up the engine speed to match the trans input speed.
I know that running up the E motor RPM then letting it drop off is quite a challenge in that an E motor is slow to decrease in RPM.
Unless you're set up for regen, why downshift?

My .02
Cruiser

Sam Shepherd <[email protected]> wrote:
does it get easier to "down shift" with a clutch and flywheel set up?
I am using a clutchless lash up and I can "up shift" pretty good, but down
shifting is a bear.
Can someone comment?
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Discussion Starter #8
With my clutchless VW Rabbit, I just blip the throttle very quickly, then
put light pressure on the gearshift until the revs match and it drops into
the lower gear. Of course you must be moving at a ground speed that will not
over rev your motor in the lower gear.

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Discussion Starter #9
*Quote: "Of course you must be moving at a ground speed that will not*
*over rev your motor in the lower gear."*

As I emerge from the ICE Age, I am going to have to *force myself to NOT
down-shift* in the hopes of slowing down my first EV, a Chevy S-10.
Doing so would surely take me to the brink of blowing my new (and quite
expensive) motor.

Down-shifting to gain mechanical advantage in the climbing of a hill
(read that - mountain!) will still likely need to be done.
I kept the clutch for that purpose. Time will tell, and experience will
dictate how I build EV #2.
Bob


Al wrote:
> With my clutchless VW Rabbit, I just blip the throttle very quickly, then
> put light pressure on the gearshift until the revs match and it drops into
> the lower gear.

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>
>
>
>
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Discussion Starter #10
This should end this even on going debate,,,if you want a clutch,,put one in, if you dont, leave it out
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Discussion Starter #12
Are you saying you don't see any difference in acceleration between
using 1st (or 2nd) and 4th under any of your test scenarios? MW

Dennis J wrote:

> Since we're on this subject, I'd like to share my opinion and
> experience on this subject including eliminating the transmission.
>
> Vehicle:
> 1965 Datsun truck with 4 speed manual transmission, 4:88 rear end.
> 9" Advance motor, 1200A Raptor, 156V Odyssey PC1750 battery pack.
> Converted Weight is ~ 3000#.
>
> When I first started looking at this project I thought long and hard
> about trying to do a direct drive setup.
> Light weight truck with a 4:88 rear end.
>
> I always thought it would be a good idea to eliminate this maintenance
> item, and save the cost of the adapter, clutch, pressure plate,
> throw out bearing. ~ $1500
> After listening to all the concerns with direct drive, I went ahead
> and
> retained the existing 4 speed transmission.
>
> I was told that the 1st and reverse gears would be noisy on this style
> transmission, but after driving for a few months, mine started
> getting worse. Reverse
> became a load grating noise, and it even felt like I was getting
> some resistance when backing up.
> I ended up spending $600 to have the transmission repaired.
> Now I have over $2000 in retaining the transmission.
>
> After getting the truck on the road, I decided to do some direct
> drive experiments on range and performance for my truck.
>
> I took (10) exact trips into a small town where I live. Approx 18
> mile round trip
> (5) trips were taken using 3rd (7.26 ratio and 4th gear 4.875), and
> (5) using only 4th gear (4.875, 1 to the rear end)
> Using my E-Meter for data history, I saw very little difference in
> overall range, Whr per mile, performance, etc.
>
> Others expressed concerns with pulling steep hills, so I went out
> and tried to pull all the steepest hills I could find.
>
> I came to a complete stop at the bottom of each.
> - With normal acceleration I was seeing 400A to 450A motor amp draws.
> - Hard acceleration would boost this to 500A to 600A.
> - No problem with pulling any of these hills.
>
> With an infrared temp meter, I checked temps at all my connections,
> controller, motor as soon as I returned..
>
> - Highest temp was in the motor brush area ~ 135F. (The thermal
> sensor switch supplied with the motor closes at 248F)
> - Controller at the cooling fins ~ 105F
> - Contactors about the same.
> - Every other connection was ambient to ~ 85F.
>
> Still don't see any problems with going this direct drive route.
> Eliminating the rotational mass, weight, and resistance should do
> nothing but improve my performance and range.
>
>
>
> Dennis



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Discussion Starter #13
This was really more about range than acceleration, but =

1st gear is ~ 20:1 ratio, 2nd ~ 12:1 so I never use them.
There may have been better acceleration in 3rd, but it would rev up to 4500=
rpm so quick, that I would be looking to shift right away.
4th had plenty of power to get me going and didn't have any measurable diff=
erence in range.

Thanks;
Dennis=
=

Elsberry, MO=
=

http://www.evalbum.com/1366
http://www.evalbum.com/3715=
=
=




-----Original Message-----
From: Martin WINLOW [mailto:[email protected]] =

Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 10:09 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] clutchless

Are you saying you don't see any difference in acceleration between =

using 1st (or 2nd) and 4th under any of your test scenarios? MW

Dennis J wrote:

> Since we're on this subject, I'd like to share my opinion and =

> experience on this subject including eliminating the transmission.
>
> Vehicle:
> 1965 Datsun truck with 4 speed manual transmission, 4:88 rear end.
> 9" Advance motor, 1200A Raptor, 156V Odyssey PC1750 battery pack.
> Converted Weight is ~ 3000#.
>
> When I first started looking at this project I thought long and hard
> about trying to do a direct drive setup.
> Light weight truck with a 4:88 rear end.
>
> I always thought it would be a good idea to eliminate this maintenance
> item, and save the cost of the adapter, clutch, pressure plate, =

> throw out bearing. ~ $1500
> After listening to all the concerns with direct drive, I went ahead =

> and
> retained the existing 4 speed transmission.
>
> I was told that the 1st and reverse gears would be noisy on this style
> transmission, but after driving for a few months, mine started =

> getting worse. Reverse
> became a load grating noise, and it even felt like I was getting =

> some resistance when backing up.
> I ended up spending $600 to have the transmission repaired.
> Now I have over $2000 in retaining the transmission.
>
> After getting the truck on the road, I decided to do some direct =

> drive experiments on range and performance for my truck.
>
> I took (10) exact trips into a small town where I live. Approx 18 =

> mile round trip
> (5) trips were taken using 3rd (7.26 ratio and 4th gear 4.875), and =

> (5) using only 4th gear (4.875, 1 to the rear end)
> Using my E-Meter for data history, I saw very little difference in =

> overall range, Whr per mile, performance, etc.
>
> Others expressed concerns with pulling steep hills, so I went out =

> and tried to pull all the steepest hills I could find.
>
> I came to a complete stop at the bottom of each.
> - With normal acceleration I was seeing 400A to 450A motor amp draws.
> - Hard acceleration would boost this to 500A to 600A.
> - No problem with pulling any of these hills.
>
> With an infrared temp meter, I checked temps at all my connections, =

> controller, motor as soon as I returned..
>
> - Highest temp was in the motor brush area ~ 135F. (The thermal =

> sensor switch supplied with the motor closes at 248F)
> - Controller at the cooling fins ~ 105F
> - Contactors about the same.
> - Every other connection was ambient to ~ 85F.
>
> Still don't see any problems with going this direct drive route.
> Eliminating the rotational mass, weight, and resistance should do =

> nothing but improve my performance and range.
>
>
>
> Dennis





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