m gol <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Several things:
>
> 1- You can definitely wear warmer clothes. Like vapor barrier boots. You
> don't need 12v-electric heated clothes to stay warm.
> 2- If you got no-heat system you can keep the window open a little bit to
> prevent the windshield to frost over.
> 3- Have the window scrapper handy to scrap from the inside.
> 4- Supposedly, a snorkel will work as well.
>
> else
>
> 5- They make propane heaters that run outside the cab, and connect with the
> glycol and the original heater core. We used the 5500 btu version and it
> kept the truck warm till -20C.
>
> Mike Golub
> Fairbanks, Alaska
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:10 AM, Roland Wiench <
[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Here in Montana, I only needed to run one cab heater at 640 watts all
> > winter
> > long and did not have to run a second cab heater at 840 watts and a 1000
> > watt hot water heater that uses the existing heater core.
> >
> > For some reason it only got down to 0 degrees for only couple of hours
> and
> > then never got below 20 degrees for long period of times. The average
> was
> > 36 degrees. It normally gets down to 30 below for days at a time which I
> > never seen for the last 10 years.
> >
> > Using only the 640 watt heater which comes on 15 to 20 minutes before I
> > leave, the inside cab temperature has been up to about 80 F. These
> heaters
> > are 120 vac 60 hz which can either run off commercial power when the main
> > AC
> > plug is connected or can be transfer to a onboard 5kw 120 vac 60 hz
> > inverter
> > that can run off a deep cycle 12 volt 135 AH battery and alternator
> design
> > for deep cycle charging. Also can run the inverter off a group of
> parallel
> > 45 Amp DC-DC converters.
> >
> > This one 640 watt heater kept all the glass defrosted without running the
> > additional defroster heater. One thing I did when I modified the El
> > Camino,
> > was to increase the R-Factor of the cab space and rework the air ducts so
> > it
> > would circulated the heated air much like is done in a house.
> >
> > In many vehicles with a engine, the engine may heat up the engine coolant
> > as
> > high as 240 degrees. This is temper with outside air with a damper to
> > lower
> > the temperature to the cab. I adjusted this heater damper, so I can
> close
> > it all way shut and rework the duct work, so it circulates the heated
> air.
> >
> > After this mod I did, I found that it now takes only 50 degree water
> > temperature from the 1000 watt heater unit to keep the windshield
> > defrosted.
> > I would have to use 180 degree water if it was temper with -30 outside
> air
> > which is not needed for a EV system.
> >
> > Now the inside cab heaters which are mounted under the dash back on the
> > fire
> > wall with about 2 inches of space behind them which has a grill for
> return
> > air. This first blow out the heated air directly on the passengers, heat
> > up
> > the seats and than flows back to the front windshield back down to the
> > defrosted outlets which I turn into inlets by using a electrical operated
> > duct doors.
> >
> > Another thing that helps is installing 2 inch thick foam rubber on the
> > floor
> > which was shape to make a completely flat floor which had a lot of
> recesses
> > in it. The lay a foam back carpet over that. I also install 3/4 inch
> > thick
> > foam rubber behind the door panels and on the front and rear fire walls
> > which was also cover with a foam back carpet.
> >
> > This now leaves the windows where I calculated the heat lost and heater
> > requirements as we do when we calculated the size of heater units for
> > buildings.
> >
> > It is known that a single pane of 1/8 thick glass that is one square foot
> > is
> > 1-R factor. We change the R factor into a U factor by dividing the R
> into
> > one or U = 1/R = 1/1 = 1 U factor.
> >
> > My vehicle class area is 25 square feet and if I want to calculated the
> > glass lost at -30 below ambient air at a 70 F inside temperate which is a
> > 100 degree temperature difference, then we use the formula:
> >
> >
> > Btur's = Square Foot x U factor x Temperature Difference
> >
> > = 25 sf x 1 U x 100 degree TD
> >
> > = 2500 Btur's
> >
> > It is known that a 1000 watt heater is rated at 3412 btus, so the glass
> it
> > self will take about (1000 wt x 2500 btu)/3412 btu = 737 watt heater.
> >
> > You then will have to calculated all the U-factors of all the other
> panels
> > in the vehicle.
> >
> > Normally when it's a clear day without no overcast, the ambient
> temperature
> > will be the lowest. But you can take advantage of solar gains by parking
> > the
> > vehicle to allow the sun to heat the vehicle. I always park my EV with
> the
> > large glass hatch cover that is over the insulated battery box pointing
> > directly at the sun. I had read temperatures up to 80 F in that
> > compartment
> > at -35 below.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Collin Kidder" <
[email protected]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <
[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cold weather operation of an EV
> >
> >
> > > On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Childress, Matthew
> > > <
[email protected]>wrote:
> > >
> > > > Some experimentation would be required to see how the human body
> deals
> > > > with the body core mass moving the heat from the seat to the
> > extremities
> > > > -- heated seats heat the body core, would this be enough to keep toes
> > > > warm???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Well, since I live in Michigan I have been able to unwillingly do much
> > > experimentation. No, heating your core will not make your toes or
> fingers
> > > warm. I can say this because shoveling snow in -5C weather is still
> cold.
> > > You can bundle up your core as much as you want and it might be warm
> but
> > > your toes and fingers will still feel like they might fall off. Heated
> > > steering wheels will help the drivers hands but do nothing for the
> > > passenger
> > > or anyone's toes. Also, one of the largest heat sinks in the human body
> > is
> > > the head. If it's not warm, you're not warm. So, you need to wear a
> > decent
> > > thermal hat.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately human extremities are too far away from the core to be
> > > effectively temperature controlled during large discrepancies between
> > > ambient and body temperature. Wearing more clothing will help but you
> can
> > > only bundle up so well if you still plan to drive.
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--
Larry Gales
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