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#### EVDL List

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I hate to ask a question like this, as I think I have seen it discussed before, or at least similar discussions, but I am at work, and am limited to what I can look at over the internet. Read, I can't search the archives.

So the story goes.

I was talking to my wife last night about my car. It has been in the works for a long time, and I have a real use for it soon. Most of the time, I am riding in a vanpool to work, so I don't need a car. But I am going back to finish my masters degree, and it is a 28 mile round trip. We currently have one car, a minivan which gets around 17-18 mpg. It would be nice to not have to take the van to school everyday. She was asking would we save on gas money if I got my electric car running. I think so, but because I don't know how much power it takes to get there and back I couldn't answer completely. This is what I was thinking:

Cost of the gas car:
miles / mpg = gallons; gallons * price per gallon = cost to travel
(28 / 17) * 2.75 ~ \$4.53 for the round trip

I assume that the cost of the electric car would be similar, but is there a way to estimate the usage? The car is a 1974 VW bug, and I want to run it at 144V, curtis 1231C, and am guessing the pack size will need to be at least 80 Ah. I was considering SLA, but might do flooded. Electricity in our area is about \$0.08/kwh. The distance includes ~8 miles of highway, ~6 miles city with up hills, on the way there. Just reverse the process for home, ~6 miles of city and downhill, and ~8 miles of highway home.

Cost of the electric car:
miles / mpkwh = kwh; kwh * price per kwh = cost to travel
(28 / ???) * 0.08 ~ ?????????

Is this correct way to compare costs? Am I missing information to make an informed guess? I appreciate all comments.

Thanks,
Brian
---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/

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#### EVDL List

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#### EVDL List

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Hello Brian,

Lets round everything out to the worst case:

If your electricity cost is \$0.08/kwh which is the same cost I have too, and
lets say your EV uses 1kwh per mile, than for the 28 miles this would be 28
x \$0.08 = \$2.24 for electricity as compare to \$4.53 for gas.

My rig that is gear correctly for a very heavy loads that I might carry at
times which is up to about 20:1 overall gear ratio. One time I carry 1600
lbs of porcelain floor tiles which the made the EV weigh about 8600 lbs, I
was running at about .5Kw/mi at 25 mph. At 6800 lbs in third gear at 50
mph it uses about .55Kw/mi at 50 mph.

So at about .5kw/mi the cost of electricity would be about \$1.12. Now for
you lite weight rig, it could even be half of that again or about \$0.55 for
28 miles.

If gasoline is \$3.30 a gallon, then (\$3.30/\$0.55)x 28 = 168 mpg in cost
comparison.

I do not take the cost of the batteries, why, because for me, it like taking
the cost of replacement engines which I have done every five years and
calculation that in with the mpg.

I can get 10 to 12 years out of my batteries and even did not have to
replacement them, but I wanted something new or different.

Roland

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 6:54 AM
Subject: [EVDL] computing costs

> I hate to ask a question like this, as I think I have seen it discussed
> before, or at least similar discussions, but I am at work, and am limited
> to what I can look at over the internet. Read, I can't search the
> archives.
>
> So the story goes.
>
> I was talking to my wife last night about my car. It has been in the
> works for a long time, and I have a real use for it soon. Most of the
> time, I am riding in a vanpool to work, so I don't need a car. But I am
> going back to finish my masters degree, and it is a 28 mile round trip.
> We currently have one car, a minivan which gets around 17-18 mpg. It
> would be nice to not have to take the van to school everyday. She was
> asking would we save on gas money if I got my electric car running. I
> think so, but because I don't know how much power it takes to get there
> and back I couldn't answer completely. This is what I was thinking:
>
> Cost of the gas car:
> miles / mpg = gallons; gallons * price per gallon = cost to travel
> (28 / 17) * 2.75 ~ \$4.53 for the round trip
>
> I assume that the cost of the electric car would be similar, but is there
> a way to estimate the usage? The car is a 1974 VW bug, and I want to run
> it at 144V, curtis 1231C, and am guessing the pack size will need to be at
> least 80 Ah. I was considering SLA, but might do flooded. Electricity in
> our area is about \$0.08/kwh. The distance includes ~8 miles of highway,
> ~6 miles city with up hills, on the way there. Just reverse the process
> for home, ~6 miles of city and downhill, and ~8 miles of highway home.
>
> Cost of the electric car:
> miles / mpkwh = kwh; kwh * price per kwh = cost to travel
> (28 / ???) * 0.08 ~ ?????????
>
> Is this correct way to compare costs? Am I missing information to make an
> informed guess? I appreciate all comments.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
> ---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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#### EVDL List

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Discussion Starter · ·
Yes, I was going to mention that. If you are taking battery costs into
consideration, then you have to take the other gasser costs too.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] computing costs

>
> I do not take the cost of the batteries, why, because for me, it like
> taking the cost of replacement engines which I have done every five years
> and calculation that in with the mpg.
>
>
> Roland
>
>

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#### EVDL List

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Discussion Starter · ·
[email protected] wrote:
> Cost of the electric car: miles / mpkwh = kwh; kwh * price per kwh =
> cost to travel (28 / ???) * 0.08 ~ ?????????
>
> Is this correct way to compare costs? Am I missing information to
> make an informed guess? I appreciate all comments.

A VW bug with this motor and battery will use about 0.33 KWH per mile at
the AC receptacle. Let's say your electricity costs 9 cents/KWH. Then
you are paying

9 cents/KWH x 0.33 KWH/mile = 3 cents a mile for electricity.

Let's say your car got 30 miles per gallon, and gas costs \$3.00/gallon.
Then you are paying

\$3/gal / 30 miles/gal = 30 cents a mile for gasoline.

On this basis, electricity is a big winner! But... you also have to
consider the cost of the batteries, as they are a regular maintenance
and replacement item.

Let's say you use plain old 6v flooded golf cart batteries (which give
the lowest cost per mile). If you take good care of them and don't
murder them early from abuse, they will last about 20,000 miles. Let's
say you use 16 of them at \$75 each = \$1200. Their cost per mile is

\$1200 / 20,000 miles = 6 cents a mile
plus 3 cents/mile for electricity
total 9 cents/mile

If you use AGMs, the car will be a lot peppier and there won't be any
battery maintenance. But they cost twice as much and only last half as
long. You battery costs are thus 4 times higher

\$2400 / 10,000 = 24 cents/mile
plus 3 cents/mile for electricity
total 28 cents/mile

In other words, AGMs all but wipes out any savings over gasoline.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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#### EVDL List

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Brian,

Others have addressed the cost of electricity and batteries. One aspect
that you might also want to consider is that if you're going to try
finishing the conversion while you are working on your degree, you will
likely have little time to work on the conversion... You'll be lucky to
get the conversion done before you're done working on the degree. If you
end up driving the van in the menatime, you probably won't realize any
savings from the EV.

Hopefully you have time to finish the conversion before starting on the
degree.

Ralph

[email protected] writes:
>
> I hate to ask a question like this, as I think I have seen it discussed before, or at least similar discussions, but I am at work, and am limited to what I can look at over the internet. Read, I can't search the archives.
>
> So the story goes.
>
> I was talking to my wife last night about my car. It has been in the works for a long time, and I have a real use for it soon. Most of the time, I am riding in a vanpool to work, so I don't need a car. But I am going back to finish my masters degree, and it is a 28 mile round trip. We currently have one car, a minivan which gets around 17-18 mpg. It would be nice to not have to take the van to school everyday. She was asking would we save on gas money if I got my electric car running. I think so, but because I don't know how much power it takes to get there and back I couldn't answer completely. This is what I was thinking:
>
> Cost of the gas car:
> miles / mpg = gallons; gallons * price per gallon = cost to travel
> (28 / 17) * 2.75 ~ \$4.53 for the round trip
>
> I assume that the cost of the electric car would be similar, but is there a way to estimate the usage? The car is a 1974 VW bug, and I want to run it at 144V, curtis 1231C, and am guessing the pack size will need to be at least 80 Ah. I was considering SLA, but might do flooded. Electricity in our area is about \$0.08/kwh. The distance includes ~8 miles of highway, ~6 miles city with up hills, on the way there. Just reverse the process for home, ~6 miles of city and downhill, and ~8 miles of highway home.
>
> Cost of the electric car:
> miles / mpkwh = kwh; kwh * price per kwh = cost to travel
> (28 / ???) * 0.08 ~ ?????????
>
> Is this correct way to compare costs? Am I missing information to make an informed guess? I appreciate all comments.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
> ---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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#### EVDL List

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Discussion Starter · ·
This one is in your neighborhood, if you don't want to actually do the
conversion:

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#### EVDL List

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Oh -this- one is much nicer

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I would be interested to know more about this too. I have been looking at a couple of generators for use in my planned EV... or hybrid. If there are better generator solutions than the one's I've found so far, I would like to know.

Brian

---- "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

=============
I hate to ask a question like this, as I think I have seen it discussed before, or at least similar discussions, but I am at work, and am limited to what I can look at over the internet. Read, I can't search the archives.

So the story goes.

I was talking to my wife last night about my car. It has been in the works for a long time, and I have a real use for it soon. Most of the time, I am riding in a vanpool to work, so I don't need a car. But I am going back to finish my masters degree, and it is a 28 mile round trip. We currently have one car, a minivan which gets around 17-18 mpg. It would be nice to not have to take the van to school everyday. She was asking would we save on gas money if I got my electric car running. I think so, but because I don't know how much power it takes to get there and back I couldn't answer completely. This is what I was thinking:

Cost of the gas car:
miles / mpg = gallons; gallons * price per gallon = cost to travel
(28 / 17) * 2.75 ~ \$4.53 for the round trip

I assume that the cost of the electric car would be similar, but is there a way to estimate the usage? The car is a 1974 VW bug, and I want to run it at 144V, curtis 1231C, and am guessing the pack size will need to be at least 80 Ah. I was considering SLA, but might do flooded. Electricity in our area is about \$0.08/kwh. The distance includes ~8 miles of highway, ~6 miles city with up hills, on the way there. Just reverse the process for home, ~6 miles of city and downhill, and ~8 miles of highway home.

Cost of the electric car:
miles / mpkwh = kwh; kwh * price per kwh = cost to travel
(28 / ???) * 0.08 ~ ?????????

Is this correct way to compare costs? Am I missing information to make an informed guess? I appreciate all comments.

Thanks,
Brian
---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/

_______________________________________________
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#### EVDL List

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<<<< Let's say your car got 30 miles per gallon, and gas costs \$3.00/gallon.
Then you are paying

\$3/gal / 30 miles/gal = 30 cents a mile for gasoline. >>>>

We know you mean 10 cents/mile, Lee ;^) That's about what my RAV4 costs, and
since it's a Toyota, nothing else besides an occasional oil/filter update.

<<<< Let's say you use plain old 6v flooded golf cart batteries (which give
the lowest cost per mile). If you take good care of them and don't
murder them early from abuse, they will last about 20,000 miles. Let's
say you use 16 of them at \$75 each = \$1200. Their cost per mile is

\$1200 / 20,000 miles = 6 cents a mile
plus 3 cents/mile for electricity
total 9 cents/mile >>>>

...a lot of converters relying on Curtises shoot for 144v (\$1800 with your
basis), but if you baby them with shallow discharges and enough distilled
water, maybe stretch lifespan beyond 20K mi.

<<<< If you use AGMs, the car will be a lot peppier and there won't be any
battery maintenance. But they cost twice as much and only last half as
long. You battery costs are thus 4 times higher

\$2400 / 10,000 = 24 cents/mile
plus 3 cents/mile for electricity
total 28 cents/mile >>>>

I paid \$3600 to Blue Sky Motors for my Ranger's latest pack, so I certainly hope
I get more than 10K mi! The previous one died with 21K on the odo, but these
packs have been switched around too much to assume I had the original in there.

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>> \$3/gal / 30 miles/gal = 30 cents a mile for gasoline.

Cowtown wrote:
> We know you mean 10 cents/mile, Lee ;^)

Ouch! That was a stupid mistake! Thanks for the correction.

--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net

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