Larry Gales <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Here are the calculations I used in a posting to SEVA / EVDL a few months
> ago ( note that the calculations were for a severe climate such as Michig=
an,
> and we needed 5.8 gallons/year of gas. In most of the rest of the coun=
try
> we would need much less, hence the estimate of 2-3 gallons/year. One
> mistake I made below is assuming that gasoline heaters are 100% effici=
ent
> at producing heat, whereas 88% seems more reasonable, but that does not
> change the picture much):
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------------------------------------------------
> Cold weather takes a huge toll on the range of EVs. It appears to cut =
the
> range of the
> Mitsubishi iMiev almost in half, and cut the range of the Nissan Leaf by
> 20-40%. It is a very
> large problem in search of a solution.
>
> You can compute the BTUs needed to heat a room at this website:
>
> http://www.hearth.com/calc/btucalc.html
>
> I selected a cold climate (Michigan), poor insulation, and a volume of 12'
> by 5' by 8' (it
> assumes all ceilings are 8' tall). It computed that you need from 1200=
to
> 2400 BTU/HR to heat
> that room. Now the Leaf is built on the Nissan Versa platform, and that
> appears to have an
> interior volume of roughly 150 cubic feet, as per this URL:
>
> http://www.nissanusa.com/versa/specifications-hatchback.ht=
ml
>
> Now 12 x 5 x 8 =3D 480 cu. ft, which is 3.2 times the volume of the
> Versa/Leaf. However, the Leaf
> will typically be traveling at 30 MPH which will suck extra heat out of t=
he
> car compared with a
> room. Still, with only 1/3 the volume, you would think 2400 BTUs would be
> enough. But to be on
> the extra save side I assumed you need 5000 BTUs/HR, or about 1.5 KW.
>
> Now one gallon of gasoline contains 115,000 BTUs:
>
> http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/energy_conv.html
>
> While gasoline is very inefficient at running motors, it is 100% efficient
> at generating heat, so
> 5000 BTUs should last (115000/5000) =3D 23 hours. If we assume that th=
e Leaf
> averages 30 MPH, then
> we get 23*30 =3D 690 miles/gallon. Since we don't use heat during the =
Summer,
> and even during the
> Winter we don't always use maximum heat, we can assume that we average ab=
out
> 1/3 the heat
> capacity of the gasoline heater. That translates to 3*690 =3D 2070
> miles/gallon. If we drive
> 12,000 miles/yr, that translates to 5.8 gallons/year.
>
> Now 5.8 gallons/year is but 1-2% of the gasoline needed to run an ICE car
> for a year. It seems a
> VERY small price to pay for eliminating one of the biggest barriers to the
> use of EVs. Yet,
> Nissan, Mitsubishi, THINK, and other production EVs lack such a heater.
>
> So am I missing something here, or are my calculations way off?
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Roger Heuckeroth <
[email protected]>=
wrote:
>
>> Larry, intuitively your 2 gal/ year estimate seams out of whack. Do y=
ou
>> want to show us your calcs?
>>
>> What are your assumptions besides 12,000 miles? What climate? How =
many
>> miles driven with heat? What BTU/hr heater output? What heater eff=
iciency?
>> What average speed?
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Mar 5, 2011, at 6:30 PM, Larry Gales <
[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > When you reduce gasoline consumption from 400 gallons a year (for an I=
CE
>> > engine at 30 mpg for 12,000 miles) to *2* galllons per year, you have
>> > reduced your gas consumption to 1/2 of 1% of an ICE. I would say th=
at
>> that
>> > will get you away from gasoline.
>> >
>> > -- Larry
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Bob Bath <
[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I still don't see it. Most Leaf customers are purchasing to get _a=
way_
>> >> from gasoline; even for cabin heating. And apparently Nissan went =
with
>> >> steering wheel heating, cabin ventilation, from what I've heard.
>> >>
>> >> Thinking about converting a gen. 5 ('92-95) Honda Civic? See
>> >> http://home.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html for DVD and tons mo
>> >> info!
>> >> ____
>> >> __/__|__\__
>> >> =3DD-------/ - - \
>> >> 'O'-----'O'-'
>> >> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steeri=
ng
>> >> wheel?
>> >> OR Lic. "LCTRNS"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Larry Gales <
[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> From: Larry Gales <
[email protected]>
>> >>> Subject: [EVDL] Consumer reports on the Volt vs the Leaf
>> >>> To: "SEVA" <
[email protected]>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"=
<
>> >>
[email protected]>
>> >>> Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 2:30 PM
>> >>> The April 2011 Consumer Reports
>> >>> review of the Leaf came out much better
>> >>> than the Volt. But the Consumer report supports
>> >>> something that I have
>> >>> emphasized for a while: that cold weather is a major
>> >>> limitation of pure EVs
>> >>> which could be almost entirely eliminated if manufacturer's
>> >>> would include a
>> >>> small gasoline heater to heat the batteries and the
>> >>> passengers.
>> >>>
>> >>> By my calculations, which I have previously posted in
>> >>> emails to SEVA and
>> >>> EVDL, most people could drive 12,000 miles per year and
>> >>> only consume 2-3
>> >>> gallons of gasoline per year, while eliminating the cold
>> >>> weather problems of
>> >>> EVs. Even in a climate like Michigan, 5-6
>> >>> gallons of gasoline could make
>> >>> the EV function as if it were in San Diego (except for
>> >>> increased rolling
>> >>> resistance if there is snow on the road).
>> >>>
>> >>> This seems like a tiny price to pay to eliminate one of the
>> >>> biggest barriers
>> >>> to the adoption of EVs. I hope that the manufacturers
>> >>> will listen to this.
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Larry Gales
>> >>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> >>>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Larry Gales
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>
>
>
> --
> Larry Gales
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