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Discussion Starter #1
I have heard of colleges that have obtained disabled EV1s, and
have gone through the pains of designing their own controller to make
their EV1 functional. If the S-10 has the exact same powertrain as the
EV1, why couldn't they just get a S-10 and use its electronics? That
way, it would have all identical parts to the original EV1.

Then there'd be a fully functional, all OEM EV1!!! :)

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Discussion Starter #2
From: "Joseph T."
> I have heard of colleges that have obtained disabled EV1s, and
> have gone through the pains of designing their own controller to make
> their EV1 functional. If the S-10 has the exact same powertrain as the
> EV1, why couldn't they just get a S-10 and use its electronics? That
> way, it would have all identical parts to the original EV1.
>
> Then there'd be a fully functional, all OEM EV1!!! :)

That would indeed be pretty cool! However, I believe GM made all the recipients of these EV1s sign papers to promising they would never be restored as original, nor ever be registered or driven again as a regular car.

--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net

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Discussion Starter #7
On 22 Oct 2007 at 19:47, Lee Hart wrote:

> I believe GM made all the
> recipients of these EV1s sign papers to promising they would never be restored
> as original, nor ever be registered or driven again as a regular car.

I read that too. But I'm not as pessimistic as some.

Someday some of these museums and schools are going to decide it's time to
dispose of that relic that's been gathering dust for, say, 15 or 20 years.
By that time the office staff will have turned over and the paperwork will
have been forgotten. Most likely GM's vultures will also have moved on.
Some new department head will be wandering round and will see all that space
being used by the EV1 - space he could use for HIS pet project. "Sell it or
junk it!"

If you're in the right place at the right time, that car will be yours - for
a contribution of, say, a few grand to the EE department. Restrictions?
Contract? By then, nobody will know anything about them. You'll get it
working, haul it to the DMV, get a salvage title, and drive off.

I hope that by that time EV1s will be irrelevant because better EVs will be
in production.

Probably not, though. What I >am< a pessimist about is automakers'
willingness to make ANY kind of real EV. If history is any indication, 20
years from now there will still be no turnkey EVs offered, or at least not
in the States. We'll still be converting cars and building kits and one-
offs - and resurrecting ancient prototypes - if they haven't succeeded to
make EVs illegal altogether!

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Discussion Starter #8
From: David Roden
> Someday some of these museums and schools are going to decide it's
> time to dispose of that relic that's been gathering dust...
> If you're in the right place at the right time, that car will be
> yours!

I'm sure you're right. I feel confident an EV1 will eventually turn up. GM thought they destroyed all their Electrovairs (electric Corvairs built in the 1960's -- but there's one in the national Corvair museum that escaped through corporate carelessness!

> What I >am< a pessimist about is automakers' willingness to make ANY
> kind of real EV. If history is any indication, 20 years from now
> there will still be no turnkey EVs offered, or at least not in the
> States.

There will be if I have anything to do about it! :)

20 years is a long time -- things can change fast! In 1980, IBM totally dominated the computer industry. Ten years later, they were fighting for survival. Twenty years later, they were a small-time player, and no longer a force in the market.

> if they haven't succeeded to make EVs illegal altogether!

Now that's a bigger worry. They could indeed get laws and regulations passed that essentially make them illegal. I've seen this sort of thing tried in at least two other fields -- amateur radio, and private aircraft. In both cases, they only survived because hobbyists united and formed a powerful enough lobby to successfully fight off the commercial interests.


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"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net

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Discussion Starter #9
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Disabled EV1 + S10 EV = All OEM EV1 ?


> From: David Roden
>> Someday some of these museums and schools are going to decide it's
>> time to dispose of that relic that's been gathering dust...
>> If you're in the right place at the right time, that car will be
>> yours!
>
> I'm sure you're right. I feel confident an EV1 will eventually turn up. GM
> thought they destroyed all their Electrovairs (electric Corvairs built in
> the 1960's -- but there's one in the national Corvair museum that escaped
> through corporate carelessness!
>
>> What I >am< a pessimist about is automakers' willingness to make ANY
>> kind of real EV. If history is any indication, 20 years from now
>> there will still be no turnkey EVs offered, or at least not in the
>> States.
>
> There will be if I have anything to do about it! :)
> Hi Lee an" EVerybody;

Yeaeeah! Lee, I was waiting , hoping you would chime in here! Me, too,
as for the Sunrise, tooting Lee's horn here. You TO can help. I don't want
to sound like a PBS Begathon, here, as they sent me screaming to the radio
to switch channels! Gotta come in somewhere, in the begging dept.I guess I
could say"Stay tuned " and order a Sunrise kit when the time comes. Hasten
that, send a check to Lee's addie, it's on his posts.If WE don't do it, who
is!???

> 20 years is a long time -- things can change fast! In 1980, IBM totally
> dominated the computer industry. Ten years later, they were fighting for
> survival. Twenty years later, they were a small-time player, and no longer
> a force in the market.
>
>> if they haven't succeeded to make EVs illegal altogether!

The'll pry my EV out of my cold dead hands! Not before.Can I get to
Canada on a few charges<g>?
>
> Now that's a bigger worry. They could indeed get laws and regulations
> passed that essentially make them illegal. I've seen this sort of thing
> tried in at least two other fields -- amateur radio, and private aircraft.
> In both cases, they only survived because hobbyists united and formed a
> powerful enough lobby to successfully fight off the commercial interests.

> OK. THAT's why we have to get/do the EAA, like the REAL EAA. Experimental
> AIRCRAFT Assoc. Thay had "EAA" first. Might hsave to pool their effort
> with NEDRA, so NEDRA is a household word, Like Nascar. I'm not much of an
> organizer, but to plant an idea here. If the present Regeme in DC DOESN"T
> change their stance, IF somebody actually get's electred, or steals the
> election<g>?
That will DO something toward the Oil problem and air polution? I know
I'm dreaming with the present band of jolly pirates planning to run,.Scary!
But Big money owns,runs the country, we may have to band together, while
there is still air to breathe, water to drink, etc. I'm getting preaty darn
close to OT, but lets face it? Ya ALL saw the movie, WKtEC? Right? You
didn't? Shame on ya! Go rent/buy it and report back to us! If it wan't for
the policies of the Regeme we would be toughing it out as to an EV-1, 2, or
3 a Rav-4, a Think, or more, on the showroom floor. Not figuring out HOW to
get good regen or battery care?Or how to repaint yur motor?!
>
> --
> "Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James

> --But it helps?

Seeya, Just send Money!

Bob

> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net

> There is is, send what ya can spare<g>!Sunrise Rising?
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Discussion Starter #10
>
> Probably not, though. What I >am< a pessimist about is automakers'
> willingness to make ANY kind of real EV. If history is any indication, 20
> years from now there will still be no turnkey EVs offered, or at least not
> in the States. We'll still be converting cars and building kits and one-
> offs - and resurrecting ancient prototypes - if they haven't succeeded to
> make EVs illegal altogether!
>

By then most cars will be Toyotas and Hondas, although that also does not
make me more optimistic.

After my return from the US last month, having driven a Prius and loving it,
I emailed a big letter praising the car to the local Toyota office and
asking to buy one. I got back a one line email saying 'the cars for sale
in Chile are the ones listed on the website'.

If EVs get sold, its going to be under BIG pressure and some legislation
forcing them to, or after they all go broke trying to avoid selling them
by some yet to be formed corporation...


--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://ev.nn.cl | Weird Al
|

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Discussion Starter #11
>
> Probably not, though. What I >am< a pessimist about is automakers'
> willingness to make ANY kind of real EV. If history is any indication, 20
> years from now there will still be no turnkey EVs offered, or at least not
> in the States. We'll still be converting cars and building kits and one-
> offs - and resurrecting ancient prototypes - if they haven't succeeded to
> make EVs illegal altogether!
>

By then most cars will be Toyotas and Hondas, although that also does not
make me more optimistic.

After my return from the US last month, having driven a Prius and loving it,
I emailed a big letter praising the car to the local Toyota office and
asking to buy one. I got back a one line email saying 'the cars for sale
in Chile are the ones listed on the website'.

If EVs get sold, its going to be under BIG pressure and some legislation
forcing them to, or after they all go broke trying to avoid selling them
by some yet to be formed corporation...


--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://ev.nn.cl | Weird Al
|

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Discussion Starter #12
Lee Hart wrote:
>> 20 years is a long time -- things can change fast! In 1980, IBM
>> totally dominated the computer industry. Ten years later, they were
>> fighting for survival. Twenty years later, they were a small-time
>> player, and no longer a force in the market.

Steve Wilson scwilson at attglobal.net wrote me (off-list):
> I certainly respect your electrical engineering and design expertise
> and experience, but your IBM example is way off...
>
> As a 30 year employee of IBM, and having gone through "the troubled
> times" we had, I think I can state with authority that we are still
> a big-time player, a leader, and major force in the global computer
> industry! The troubles were in the early 90's (not the 80's), and
> that was due to the top management (Opel and Akers) that over expanded
> the company. It was tough going, but Gerstner (the "cookie monster" -
> he came from Nabisco) saved the ship...
>
> Maybe you are thinking in terms of personal computers (we divested
> that unit when PCs became a commodity item), but for enterprise
> computing, IBM is still the vendor of choice for large and mission
> critical applications...
>
> Any questions, just read the facts, or ask me.

I'm sorry, Steve. My apologies to you and the good folks at IBM.

Yes, I was thinking of IBM only in the personal computer sense. I did
not intend to slight the company's many achievements and contributions
to the computing industry, which are indeed continuing today.

My point was that things can change fast. I thought the IBM PC would be
a good example that people would understand. I guess I should have
picked something else!

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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