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Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all.
i have been working on a new project much closer to my long (long long long)
time goal of actually building electric vehicles.
i got fed up with CALB (another long story that i have avoided posting but
may still yet...) and wanted to find a decent LiFePO4 battery supplyer and
came across a factory near my adopted home here in China (Guangzhou) but the
largest format they make is 20Ah packet cells. most of what they produce is
for toys and e-bikes.

i had been telling a friend ( another foriegner here ) that i was going to
build an electric bike to do testing with. one day we went to dinner and he
had decided quite emphatically that he wanted me to build him an electric
bike. he was sick of getting to work drenched in sweat or having to fight
for a taxi... and refuses to ride the bus here as it is damn near impossible
during rush hours... well since it was my first conversion i was a little
aprehinsive (sorry for my spelling) but was still confident and since we
have been friends for 3 years i was not afraid to use him as a guinnie
pig...

the first motor i ordered took 3 weeks to arrive then did not function well
at all ... plus they forgot to sent the nuts to mount the thing and they
turned out to be ASE threads !!! my god - what idiot uses ASE anymore ?
another week wasted and they sent the nuts but in the mean time i had gotten
fead up with them and ordered a complete kit from another factory - LiFePO4
battery and all. - well - -- i am very happy about that . the kit arrived
in less than a week then it took only several hours to complete the bike.
when my friend saw the bike he was really amazed and said " it looks like a
normal bike" . i asked what he expected and he said that he expected wires
everywhere and expected it to "look" like an electric bike .... this brings
me to another point that prompted his decition and that is the elelctric
bikes you can buy and that all the chinese drive look like outdated mopeds
or little motor scooters for women... we would not be caught dead riding
something like that.
my original objective was just to test the batteries, but now it seems i may
be in the e-bike conversion business as others have shown interest in this
project and are asking about it.

i posted it on the evalbum but i think it is not available to see yet. the
picture is the guy i built it for (not me!). he is not a big guy but i hate
to say - as big around as he is tall., i think a little over 200 lbs - and
he is so happy with the performance - yes it was definatly an ev-grin and he
cannot say enough good about it.

today i should receive the motor to convert my bike. that should prove a
little more of a challange since my bike has suspension and i cannot use the
custom rack from the factory. and - upon his request i had eleminated the
shifting mechanism from his bike and made it just one gear but i plan to
retain all the gear system on my bike.. i will definatly post how that goes.
..

thanks
Rick
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Rick Randazzo wrote:

> Hi all.
> i have been working on a new project much closer to my long (long
> long long)
> time goal of actually building electric vehicles.
> i got fed up with CALB (another long story that i have avoided
> posting but
> may still yet...) and wanted to find a decent LiFePO4 battery
> supplyer and
> came across a factory near my adopted home here in China (Guangzhou)
> but the
> largest format they make is 20Ah packet cells. most of what they
> produce is
> for toys and e-bikes.
>
> i had been telling a friend ( another foriegner here ) that i was
> going to
> build an electric bike to do testing with. one day we went to dinner
> and he
> had decided quite emphatically that he wanted me to build him an
> electric
> bike. he was sick of getting to work drenched in sweat or having to
> fight
> for a taxi... and refuses to ride the bus here as it is damn near
> impossible
> during rush hours... well since it was my first conversion i was a
> little
> aprehinsive (sorry for my spelling) but was still confident and
> since we
> have been friends for 3 years i was not afraid to use him as a guinnie
> pig...
>
> the first motor i ordered took 3 weeks to arrive then did not
> function well
> at all ... plus they forgot to sent the nuts to mount the thing and
> they
> turned out to be ASE threads !!! my god - what idiot uses ASE
> anymore ?
> another week wasted and they sent the nuts but in the mean time i
> had gotten
> fead up with them and ordered a complete kit from another factory -
> LiFePO4
> battery and all. - well - -- i am very happy about that . the kit
> arrived
> in less than a week then it took only several hours to complete the
> bike.
> when my friend saw the bike he was really amazed and said " it looks
> like a
> normal bike" . i asked what he expected and he said that he expected
> wires
> everywhere and expected it to "look" like an electric bike ....
> this brings
> me to another point that prompted his decition and that is the
> elelctric
> bikes you can buy and that all the chinese drive look like outdated
> mopeds
> or little motor scooters for women... we would not be caught dead
> riding
> something like that.
> my original objective was just to test the batteries, but now it
> seems i may
> be in the e-bike conversion business as others have shown interest
> in this
> project and are asking about it.
>
> i posted it on the evalbum but i think it is not available to see
> yet. the
> picture is the guy i built it for (not me!). he is not a big guy but
> i hate
> to say - as big around as he is tall., i think a little over 200 lbs
> - and
> he is so happy with the performance - yes it was definatly an ev-
> grin and he
> cannot say enough good about it.
>
> today i should receive the motor to convert my bike. that should
> prove a
> little more of a challange since my bike has suspension and i cannot
> use the
> custom rack from the factory. and - upon his request i had
> eleminated the
> shifting mechanism from his bike and made it just one gear but i
> plan to
> retain all the gear system on my bike.. i will definatly post how
> that goes.
> ..
>
> thanks
> Rick
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Rick,

Interesting...

Your EValbum entry is up - www.evalbum.com/3557

A couple of points... "I was showing it to a lady - taking turns
riding - we ended up far so I rode her on the back ...". Sounds like
fun - and I thought China was such a conservative place!

Wh/mile sounds way off. You can calculate it by multiplying the volts
and amps at the battery for a given speed and dividing that sum by
that speed. Eg, say at 10mph the battery volts sag to 32V and the
motor is pulling 15A, then the calculation would be 32 x 15 = 480 / 10
= 48Wh per mile (or 48Wh/m). Obviously this must be steady-state - ie
on a level road with no wind and doing a constant 10mph. You can do
it at the wall instead, ie measure the amount of electricity used to
charge the bike over a given number of miles and just dived the power
used in W by the miles done. This includes the inefficiencies of the
charger and battery so will be a bit higher than the first method.

What power rating is the wheel motor?

Your post is a bit unclear as to whether the kit includes the bike as
well - if it does, I think most people would want a kit to convert an
existing bike which would reduce shipping cost hugely.

The batteries bit on the EValbum page is adrift - it says 12V...

Have you actually looked at the cost of exporting a kit to the
US ...? or - more interestingly to me - to the UK? Have a look on
eBay and see what people are charging for Chinese kits. You may have
a good market to EVDL'ers if you can undercut them ON TOP of using the
EVDL as a forum to promote your kits - as long as you stick to the
EVDL's rules!

The link on your EValbum entry to the kit manufacturers web site does
not work, BTW.

I, for one, would be very interested to hear more.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



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Registered
Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Rick, I was surprised that you put forth the effort to convert a bike.
China appears to have a surfeit of factory built Ebikes. At least some of
them must be cheap; I see dozens of sellers trying to peddle generic
examples on Ebay here. Prices there seem to start at around $600, and you
can bet there's container shipping cost and plenty of vendor markup in that
price.

But then you should probably figure that a $600 (in the US) lithium powered
Ebike isn't going to be a long-lasting, high quality piece of gear. Still,
it demonstrates that there are plenty of cheap get-your-feet-wet Ebikes
being offered, for all the good and bad that suggests.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Discussion Starter #4
it is a crazy mix of conservatives and liberals... i think it is pretty much
the same everywhere ... i will skip answering this directly :D

the batteries part seems to be messed up (maybe me) should be a 36 volt pack
, that would be 12 - 3.2 volt , 10Ah cells ... (right?)

the motor is rated 350 to 500 Watts.

i really have no idea of the speed and we have not done any exact
calculation on how long you can drive before recharge. He drove the thing
quite a bit the day i gave it to him but never ran the battery low enough to
slow him down... it only has a green, amber and red light and the green
never went off... took 1.5 hour to charge.

The guy called me this morning to tell me he got to work in 15 minutes and
it was great. he did say not as fast as he could have gone peddling - i need
to ride it and let him give chase so he can see that it really clips along.
your perspective on speed changes when you are not having to peddle.

the funny thing about china is they build stuff for export. a lot of things
they export you really cannot get in a shop on the street. you never see a
bike like this driven by the locals. you can buy a little bike that looks
like a girls bike - or the scooter things - but would you ride that ? most
foriegners would not be caught dead on them ... my original plan was to
build it just to do testing on the batteries. then when this guy decided he
wanted me to convert his bike... the people here think i am crazy for
converting instead of just buying but i really enjoyed the project. i had
not planned on trying to sell them but there are several people showing
interest now. this is suppose to be the first step in a process. the idea is
to creat something people need and have been asking about ....

i see on ebay someone in florida selling the kit for the same price it cost
me here in china ..... he must have imported a slew of them.




Martin WINLOW <[email protected]>wrote:

>
> On 26 Nov 2010, at 00:35, Rick Randazzo wrote:
>
> > Hi all.
> > i have been working on a new project much closer to my long (long
> > long long)
> > time goal of actually building electric vehicles.
> > i got fed up with CALB (another long story that i have avoided
> > posting but
> > may still yet...) and wanted to find a decent LiFePO4 battery
> > supplyer and
> > came across a factory near my adopted home here in China (Guangzhou)
> > but the
> > largest format they make is 20Ah packet cells. most of what they
> > produce is
> > for toys and e-bikes.
> >
> > i had been telling a friend ( another foriegner here ) that i was
> > going to
> > build an electric bike to do testing with. one day we went to dinner
> > and he
> > had decided quite emphatically that he wanted me to build him an
> > electric
> > bike. he was sick of getting to work drenched in sweat or having to
> > fight
> > for a taxi... and refuses to ride the bus here as it is damn near
> > impossible
> > during rush hours... well since it was my first conversion i was a
> > little
> > aprehinsive (sorry for my spelling) but was still confident and
> > since we
> > have been friends for 3 years i was not afraid to use him as a guinnie
> > pig...
> >
> > the first motor i ordered took 3 weeks to arrive then did not
> > function well
> > at all ... plus they forgot to sent the nuts to mount the thing and
> > they
> > turned out to be ASE threads !!! my god - what idiot uses ASE
> > anymore ?
> > another week wasted and they sent the nuts but in the mean time i
> > had gotten
> > fead up with them and ordered a complete kit from another factory -
> > LiFePO4
> > battery and all. - well - -- i am very happy about that . the kit
> > arrived
> > in less than a week then it took only several hours to complete the
> > bike.
> > when my friend saw the bike he was really amazed and said " it looks
> > like a
> > normal bike" . i asked what he expected and he said that he expected
> > wires
> > everywhere and expected it to "look" like an electric bike ....
> > this brings
> > me to another point that prompted his decition and that is the
> > elelctric
> > bikes you can buy and that all the chinese drive look like outdated
> > mopeds
> > or little motor scooters for women... we would not be caught dead
> > riding
> > something like that.
> > my original objective was just to test the batteries, but now it
> > seems i may
> > be in the e-bike conversion business as others have shown interest
> > in this
> > project and are asking about it.
> >
> > i posted it on the evalbum but i think it is not available to see
> > yet. the
> > picture is the guy i built it for (not me!). he is not a big guy but
> > i hate
> > to say - as big around as he is tall., i think a little over 200 lbs
> > - and
> > he is so happy with the performance - yes it was definatly an ev-
> > grin and he
> > cannot say enough good about it.
> >
> > today i should receive the motor to convert my bike. that should
> > prove a
> > little more of a challange since my bike has suspension and i cannot
> > use the
> > custom rack from the factory. and - upon his request i had
> > eleminated the
> > shifting mechanism from his bike and made it just one gear but i
> > plan to
> > retain all the gear system on my bike.. i will definatly post how
> > that goes.
> > ..
> >
> > thanks
> > Rick
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20101125/22a107a7/attachment.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> Rick,
>
> Interesting...
>
> Your EValbum entry is up - www.evalbum.com/3557
>
> A couple of points... "I was showing it to a lady - taking turns
> riding - we ended up far so I rode her on the back ...". Sounds like
> fun - and I thought China was such a conservative place!
>
> Wh/mile sounds way off. You can calculate it by multiplying the volts
> and amps at the battery for a given speed and dividing that sum by
> that speed. Eg, say at 10mph the battery volts sag to 32V and the
> motor is pulling 15A, then the calculation would be 32 x 15 = 480 / 10
> = 48Wh per mile (or 48Wh/m). Obviously this must be steady-state - ie
> on a level road with no wind and doing a constant 10mph. You can do
> it at the wall instead, ie measure the amount of electricity used to
> charge the bike over a given number of miles and just dived the power
> used in W by the miles done. This includes the inefficiencies of the
> charger and battery so will be a bit higher than the first method.
>
> What power rating is the wheel motor?
>
> Your post is a bit unclear as to whether the kit includes the bike as
> well - if it does, I think most people would want a kit to convert an
> existing bike which would reduce shipping cost hugely.
>
> The batteries bit on the EValbum page is adrift - it says 12V...
>
> Have you actually looked at the cost of exporting a kit to the
> US ...? or - more interestingly to me - to the UK? Have a look on
> eBay and see what people are charging for Chinese kits. You may have
> a good market to EVDL'ers if you can undercut them ON TOP of using the
> EVDL as a forum to promote your kits - as long as you stick to the
> EVDL's rules!
>
> The link on your EValbum entry to the kit manufacturers web site does
> not work, BTW.
>
> I, for one, would be very interested to hear more.
>
> Regards, Martin Winlow
> Herts, UK
> http://www.evalbum.com/2092
> www.winlow.co.uk
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
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·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
oh - i did not look close enough and have been corrected ... that price on
ebay does not include the battery... mine does ... wow - and the battery is
twce the price of the motor kit ...

Rick Randazzo <[email protected]>wrote:

> it is a crazy mix of conservatives and liberals... i think it is pretty
> much the same everywhere ... i will skip answering this directly :D
>
> the batteries part seems to be messed up (maybe me) should be a 36 volt
> pack , that would be 12 - 3.2 volt , 10Ah cells ... (right?)
>
> the motor is rated 350 to 500 Watts.
>
> i really have no idea of the speed and we have not done any exact
> calculation on how long you can drive before recharge. He drove the thing
> quite a bit the day i gave it to him but never ran the battery low enough to
> slow him down... it only has a green, amber and red light and the green
> never went off... took 1.5 hour to charge.
>
> The guy called me this morning to tell me he got to work in 15 minutes and
> it was great. he did say not as fast as he could have gone peddling - i need
> to ride it and let him give chase so he can see that it really clips along.
> your perspective on speed changes when you are not having to peddle.
>
> the funny thing about china is they build stuff for export. a lot of things
> they export you really cannot get in a shop on the street. you never see a
> bike like this driven by the locals. you can buy a little bike that looks
> like a girls bike - or the scooter things - but would you ride that ? most
> foriegners would not be caught dead on them ... my original plan was to
> build it just to do testing on the batteries. then when this guy decided he
> wanted me to convert his bike... the people here think i am crazy for
> converting instead of just buying but i really enjoyed the project. i had
> not planned on trying to sell them but there are several people showing
> interest now. this is suppose to be the first step in a process. the idea is
> to creat something people need and have been asking about ....
>
> i see on ebay someone in florida selling the kit for the same price it cost
> me here in china ..... he must have imported a slew of them.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 12:51 AM, Martin WINLOW <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>>
>> On 26 Nov 2010, at 00:35, Rick Randazzo wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all.
>> > i have been working on a new project much closer to my long (long
>> > long long)
>> > time goal of actually building electric vehicles.
>> > i got fed up with CALB (another long story that i have avoided
>> > posting but
>> > may still yet...) and wanted to find a decent LiFePO4 battery
>> > supplyer and
>> > came across a factory near my adopted home here in China (Guangzhou)
>> > but the
>> > largest format they make is 20Ah packet cells. most of what they
>> > produce is
>> > for toys and e-bikes.
>> >
>> > i had been telling a friend ( another foriegner here ) that i was
>> > going to
>> > build an electric bike to do testing with. one day we went to dinner
>> > and he
>> > had decided quite emphatically that he wanted me to build him an
>> > electric
>> > bike. he was sick of getting to work drenched in sweat or having to
>> > fight
>> > for a taxi... and refuses to ride the bus here as it is damn near
>> > impossible
>> > during rush hours... well since it was my first conversion i was a
>> > little
>> > aprehinsive (sorry for my spelling) but was still confident and
>> > since we
>> > have been friends for 3 years i was not afraid to use him as a guinnie
>> > pig...
>> >
>> > the first motor i ordered took 3 weeks to arrive then did not
>> > function well
>> > at all ... plus they forgot to sent the nuts to mount the thing and
>> > they
>> > turned out to be ASE threads !!! my god - what idiot uses ASE
>> > anymore ?
>> > another week wasted and they sent the nuts but in the mean time i
>> > had gotten
>> > fead up with them and ordered a complete kit from another factory -
>> > LiFePO4
>> > battery and all. - well - -- i am very happy about that . the kit
>> > arrived
>> > in less than a week then it took only several hours to complete the
>> > bike.
>> > when my friend saw the bike he was really amazed and said " it looks
>> > like a
>> > normal bike" . i asked what he expected and he said that he expected
>> > wires
>> > everywhere and expected it to "look" like an electric bike ....
>> > this brings
>> > me to another point that prompted his decition and that is the
>> > elelctric
>> > bikes you can buy and that all the chinese drive look like outdated
>> > mopeds
>> > or little motor scooters for women... we would not be caught dead
>> > riding
>> > something like that.
>> > my original objective was just to test the batteries, but now it
>> > seems i may
>> > be in the e-bike conversion business as others have shown interest
>> > in this
>> > project and are asking about it.
>> >
>> > i posted it on the evalbum but i think it is not available to see
>> > yet. the
>> > picture is the guy i built it for (not me!). he is not a big guy but
>> > i hate
>> > to say - as big around as he is tall., i think a little over 200 lbs
>> > - and
>> > he is so happy with the performance - yes it was definatly an ev-
>> > grin and he
>> > cannot say enough good about it.
>> >
>> > today i should receive the motor to convert my bike. that should
>> > prove a
>> > little more of a challange since my bike has suspension and i cannot
>> > use the
>> > custom rack from the factory. and - upon his request i had
>> > eleminated the
>> > shifting mechanism from his bike and made it just one gear but i
>> > plan to
>> > retain all the gear system on my bike.. i will definatly post how
>> > that goes.
>> > ..
>> >
>> > thanks
>> > Rick
>> > -------------- next part --------------
>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> > URL:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20101125/22a107a7/attachment.html
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> > | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>> Rick,
>>
>> Interesting...
>>
>> Your EValbum entry is up - www.evalbum.com/3557
>>
>> A couple of points... "I was showing it to a lady - taking turns
>> riding - we ended up far so I rode her on the back ...". Sounds like
>> fun - and I thought China was such a conservative place!
>>
>> Wh/mile sounds way off. You can calculate it by multiplying the volts
>> and amps at the battery for a given speed and dividing that sum by
>> that speed. Eg, say at 10mph the battery volts sag to 32V and the
>> motor is pulling 15A, then the calculation would be 32 x 15 = 480 / 10
>> = 48Wh per mile (or 48Wh/m). Obviously this must be steady-state - ie
>> on a level road with no wind and doing a constant 10mph. You can do
>> it at the wall instead, ie measure the amount of electricity used to
>> charge the bike over a given number of miles and just dived the power
>> used in W by the miles done. This includes the inefficiencies of the
>> charger and battery so will be a bit higher than the first method.
>>
>> What power rating is the wheel motor?
>>
>> Your post is a bit unclear as to whether the kit includes the bike as
>> well - if it does, I think most people would want a kit to convert an
>> existing bike which would reduce shipping cost hugely.
>>
>> The batteries bit on the EValbum page is adrift - it says 12V...
>>
>> Have you actually looked at the cost of exporting a kit to the
>> US ...? or - more interestingly to me - to the UK? Have a look on
>> eBay and see what people are charging for Chinese kits. You may have
>> a good market to EVDL'ers if you can undercut them ON TOP of using the
>> EVDL as a forum to promote your kits - as long as you stick to the
>> EVDL's rules!
>>
>> The link on your EValbum entry to the kit manufacturers web site does
>> not work, BTW.
>>
>> I, for one, would be very interested to hear more.
>>
>> Regards, Martin Winlow
>> Herts, UK
>> http://www.evalbum.com/2092
>> www.winlow.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
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Discussion Starter #6
Rick - Sounds like the basis of a business model to me! MW

Rick Randazzo wrote:

> oh - i did not look close enough and have been corrected ... that
> price on
> ebay does not include the battery... mine does ... wow - and the
> battery is
> twce the price of the motor kit ...
>
> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Rick Randazzo
> <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> it is a crazy mix of conservatives and liberals... i think it is
>> pretty
>> much the same everywhere ... i will skip answering this directly :D
>>
>> the batteries part seems to be messed up (maybe me) should be a 36
>> volt
>> pack , that would be 12 - 3.2 volt , 10Ah cells ... (right?)
>>
>> the motor is rated 350 to 500 Watts.
>>
>> i really have no idea of the speed and we have not done any exact
>> calculation on how long you can drive before recharge. He drove the
>> thing
>> quite a bit the day i gave it to him but never ran the battery low
>> enough to
>> slow him down... it only has a green, amber and red light and the
>> green
>> never went off... took 1.5 hour to charge.
>>
>> The guy called me this morning to tell me he got to work in 15
>> minutes and
>> it was great. he did say not as fast as he could have gone peddling
>> - i need
>> to ride it and let him give chase so he can see that it really
>> clips along.
>> your perspective on speed changes when you are not having to peddle.
>>
>> the funny thing about china is they build stuff for export. a lot
>> of things
>> they export you really cannot get in a shop on the street. you
>> never see a
>> bike like this driven by the locals. you can buy a little bike that
>> looks
>> like a girls bike - or the scooter things - but would you ride
>> that ? most
>> foriegners would not be caught dead on them ... my original plan
>> was to
>> build it just to do testing on the batteries. then when this guy
>> decided he
>> wanted me to convert his bike... the people here think i am crazy for
>> converting instead of just buying but i really enjoyed the project.
>> i had
>> not planned on trying to sell them but there are several people
>> showing
>> interest now. this is suppose to be the first step in a process.
>> the idea is
>> to creat something people need and have been asking about ....
>>
>> i see on ebay someone in florida selling the kit for the same price
>> it cost
>> me here in china ..... he must have imported a slew of them.
>>




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