In a normal three wheel vehicle you have separate steering via two wheels at
the front of the vehicle and drive the rear wheel. This a good effective
design.
In a trike style 3 wheeler, you would normally steer with the front wheel
and drive with the rear. Not as good a design, but with proper tire sizing
and weight distribution it would be okay.
With the caster on the front of this design, you have no control over
direction if one of your rear wheels loses traction.
The driver is more than welcome to take the risk of losing control on a
motorcycle, but you are talking about a few hundred pounds of vehicle versus
in excess of 2000 lbs with this vehicle. Everyone around it did not agree to
that risk.
The thing that really worries me is that the failure mode of this style
would likely be so fast that the driver and anyone near him would be unable
to react fast enough.
A motor cycle that loses it, tends to continue in the direction it was
travelling. This vehicle would take a sudden left or right turn at speed.
What if this happened in front of a school?
I am sorry if I am beating a dead horse as nobody else seems to see the
danger here.
The drive by wire and differential steering are fine but in my opinion, this
design should have driver control over the front caster to help control
direction in the event of a rear tire loss of traction.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <
[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <
[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette
> hi Jim,
>
> It does not make a difference if it is a dedicated 3-wheel EV
> or a regular series-produced motor cycle,
> if it loses traction on one wheel in an emergency stop, or even
> in a corner on the road, you are down. Period.
>
> Oil slicks in curves are the nightmare of any motor cyclist.
> There is a reson that Evette is registered as a motor cycle
> and you can expect a comparable level of safety, this should
> be clear to the driver and to any (future) buyer.
>
> Indeed, expecting 4-wheel safety level from a motor cycle
> would be stretching the possibilities of the design, IMO.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email:
[email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
[email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
[email protected] [mailto:
[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jim L
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 1:30 PM
> To: Tom S.; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette
>
> I'll try once more. Why won't you answer my question. What does Henry Ford
have to do with anything. I am not trying to antagonize you or criticize
your vehicle, but the last thing the doit yourself auto enthuiast needs is
to have an accident that can be traced to an improper design.
> You may have a perfectly good design there, all I am asking for is to
explain how you have addressed this problem of control when things(traction)
aren't optimal. In the example I made earlier, applying reverse to the right
wheel would not help the situation as the wheel already has lost traction.
> Test this out with your vehicle. Take it to a local parking lot and spread
some water on one side of your test lane. Then approach at speed with your
right side in the wet and your left side on the dry and see if you can make
an emergency stop while maintaining control.
>
> As for the fact that Florida has licensed this vehicle. I do not know the
process that Florida requires for registration of a homebuilt vehicle, But I
assume that it is licensed as a motorcycle. It is my understanding that
motorcycles don't need to meet as stringent requirements as a car or truck
would.
> I actually like that as it makes it possible for us all to make a vehicle
of our own and get to drive it. However, it would likely only take one
unfortunate accident that could be traced to faulty design to put a stop to
all of this.
>
> respectfully, Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom S." <
[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <
[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 12:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette
>
>
> > Hi Jim,
> >
> > When Henry Ford first drove his car in public, I`ll bet people rode by
in
> their horse and buggys, and said why is that man turning that wheel and
> pushing those pedals when he could just use the reins. On the matter of
> control, the EVette has instant reverse on each wheel, and electronic plug
> braking which ice cars don`t have, not to mention inertia. I think control
> is much better than an ice car.
> >
> > Tom Sines
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Jim L <
[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Oct 8, 2007 2:01 PM
> > >To: "Tom S." <
[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion
List
> <
[email protected]>
> > >Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette
> > >
> > > I still don't see how that steering arrangement can be safe. If you
> are
> > >driving at say 30 mph in traffic and you have to stop suddenly, you
will
> be
> > >applying brakes to your rear wheels. If you need to steer at that point
> you
> > >will apply different amounts of brake pressure to your right and left
> > >wheels.
> > >
> > > This works very well as long as you have enough traction on both
> wheels.
> > >What if one of the wheels is driving on wet pavement or sandy pavement
as
> is
> > >often found on the right side of the road.
> > >
> > > Your braking on the left wheel will pull the car to the left
> (possibly
> > >into oncoming traffic)and the slipping right wheel will not have enough
> > >traction to overcome.
> > >
> > > The driver will have to compensate by releasing the left brake
which
> is
> > >the only one with traction and will be totally dependant on the limited
> > >traction of the right wheel to try to straighten out the car.
> > >
> > > I like the overall style of the car but as I see it, the steering
> > >mechanism needs to be rethought. Or am I missing something here?
> > >
> > >Jim
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Tom S." <
[email protected]>
> > >To: "ev list" <
[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 4:43 AM
> > >Subject: [EVDL] Electric EVette
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hi everyone,
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for your positive input, for those of you who were. I think
> > >lithium battreies would be great in this car, and the car can hold a
lot
> of
> > >batteries. As for speed, the car can hold 2 11 inch dc motors that,
and
> > >two zilla 2k controlers(do the math) if I put them in the car,could rip
> the
> > >tires off the car, but that would be to much for most people. The
> > >maneuverability of this car is so much better than a conventional car
its
> > >amusing. Let me also remind you this car is not like any three wheeler
> you
> > >have ever seen, even at higher speeds it turns quicker that a
> conventional
> > >car, it also has a very low center of gravity. A writer from the Palm
> Beach
> > >Post I gave a ride once wrote, gut wrenching turns. I will also remind
> you
> > >this car is easy and fun to drive.
> > >> Harry Grepke, my good friend and mentor on this project, invented
the
> > >first hybrid turbine electric car over 30years ago. He was on the cover
> of
> > >Popular Science, he approached Detroit with it ,but they wouldn`t get
> off
> > >the dime. I don`t think its any different now. All steering and
braking
> is
> > >done by the rear wheels, if the electronic steering fails,and it has
once
> or
> > >twice, the car is easily steered by left and right hydraulic brake, as
> for
> > >traction have you seen the size of those tires?
> > >>
> > >> TomSines
> > >>
> > >>
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