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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Folk's,

I'd love to peddle to work in a Twike or electric peddle motorcycle. I really miss bicycling to work when I lived in Colorado with shoulders on the road but here in Virginia there is not (despite whining at public hearings and offering to work on the road crew).

I need something like a Twike or electric-peddle motorcycle where I can get some exercise on the way to work, 30 miles one way (can charge at work) but must do at least 55mph or the bubba's will flatten me. (I tried riding my bike once & got smacked with a pick-up side mirror).

Mark in Roanoke, VA
www.reevadiy.org
www.evalbum.com/1273 E-porsche
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Did you report the driver / license plate?

I think about every state has a "safe passing" law
that is clearly violated if you are hit by a passing vehicle,
you do not need to be a lawyer to see who is wrong...

Only by reporting dangerous/illegal activity can you change the
situation by giving Enforcement a chance to pick up repeated
offenders and being aware of the accidents that happen.

It may sound counter-intuitive, but in order to have less risk
of being hit by a close-passing vehicle, you should move further
out *into* the lane when it is narrow.
This manouvre is called "taking the lane" or "controlling the lane"
and if the lane/roadway is too narrow to safely share, this is the
only defense against Yahoos who cannot wait to squeeze by, even
when there is too little space.
You may have to endure a few horn-happy drivers, but it is better
than to get too many close calls.
For the driver the only inconvenience is that they need to switch
lane to overtake you, just as if you were a larger vehicle.

There are many people who follow their intuition and play
Gutter Bunny, only to find that when the road is too narrow, they
will end up in a squeeze and always lose. The two most important
factors in traffic safety is: be predictable and visible.
If you move off the roadway (into the gutter) then you become
"invisible" to many drivers who only scan the lane in front of them
and if you suddenly have to move back in the lane, for example
because of debris in your path, you are not predictable for the
driver that did not have you on their "radar".

Just for your information - I have been on a bicycle for almost
100,000 miles in my life and had a few close calls, it does not
matter whether you ride in Netherlands, California, India, or
elsewhere, there are always inconsiderate or inexperienced drivers...

Safe EV'ing, no matter if it is on 1, 2, 3, 4 or more wheels.

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Mark Hanson
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] Electric + Peddle Power, Twikes etc


Hi Folk's,

I'd love to peddle to work in a Twike or electric peddle motorcycle. I
really miss bicycling to work when I lived in Colorado with shoulders on
the road but here in Virginia there is not (despite whining at public
hearings and offering to work on the road crew).

I need something like a Twike or electric-peddle motorcycle where I can
get some exercise on the way to work, 30 miles one way (can charge at
work) but must do at least 55mph or the bubba's will flatten me. (I
tried riding my bike once & got smacked with a pick-up side mirror).

Mark in Roanoke, VA
www.reevadiy.org
www.evalbum.com/1273 E-porsche
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Just be aware that that it is illegal in Oregon (maybe other states as well)
to ride the bicycle in the vehicle lane, or to ride other than single file.
You must stay on the ditch side of the white line, or if there is a marked
bike lane, within the bounds of that marking. Having said that, I doubt that
it is ever enforced, unfortunately in my opinion. In any case, if you ride
in the lane, you have much greater risk of losing your life - and it's not
worth it!

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric + Peddle Power, Twikes etc


> Did you report the driver / license plate?
>
> I think about every state has a "safe passing" law
> that is clearly violated if you are hit by a passing vehicle,
> you do not need to be a lawyer to see who is wrong...
>
> Only by reporting dangerous/illegal activity can you change the
> situation by giving Enforcement a chance to pick up repeated
> offenders and being aware of the accidents that happen.
>
> It may sound counter-intuitive, but in order to have less risk
> of being hit by a close-passing vehicle, you should move further
> out *into* the lane when it is narrow.
> This manouvre is called "taking the lane" or "controlling the lane"
> and if the lane/roadway is too narrow to safely share, this is the
> only defense against Yahoos who cannot wait to squeeze by, even
> when there is too little space.
> You may have to endure a few horn-happy drivers, but it is better
> than to get too many close calls.
> For the driver the only inconvenience is that they need to switch
> lane to overtake you, just as if you were a larger vehicle.
>
> There are many people who follow their intuition and play
> Gutter Bunny, only to find that when the road is too narrow, they
> will end up in a squeeze and always lose. The two most important
> factors in traffic safety is: be predictable and visible.
> If you move off the roadway (into the gutter) then you become
> "invisible" to many drivers who only scan the lane in front of them
> and if you suddenly have to move back in the lane, for example
> because of debris in your path, you are not predictable for the
> driver that did not have you on their "radar".
>
> Just for your information - I have been on a bicycle for almost
> 100,000 miles in my life and had a few close calls, it does not
> matter whether you ride in Netherlands, California, India, or
> elsewhere, there are always inconsiderate or inexperienced drivers...
>
> Safe EV'ing, no matter if it is on 1, 2, 3, 4 or more wheels.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Mark Hanson
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:00 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Electric + Peddle Power, Twikes etc
>
>
> Hi Folk's,
>
> I'd love to peddle to work in a Twike or electric peddle motorcycle. I
> really miss bicycling to work when I lived in Colorado with shoulders on
> the road but here in Virginia there is not (despite whining at public
> hearings and offering to work on the road crew).
>
> I need something like a Twike or electric-peddle motorcycle where I can
> get some exercise on the way to work, 30 miles one way (can charge at
> work) but must do at least 55mph or the bubba's will flatten me. (I
> tried riding my bike once & got smacked with a pick-up side mirror).
>
> Mark in Roanoke, VA
> www.reevadiy.org
> www.evalbum.com/1273 E-porsche
> -------------- next part --------------
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100913/e9e9cf64/a
> ttachment.html
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> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Joe,

I am afraid that you are misinformed and you give advice
that has been shown to lead to more accidents than the
advice I originally gave, that is why I shared it.
Oregon vehicle code is not much different than California's
and although this is not a Bicycle list, I still want to
clarify the misconceptions that many people have for the
sake of the electric Bicycle and comparable vehicles out there.

"Taking the Lane" and riding outside of a marked bicycle lane is
allowed under the same conditions in Oregon as in many other
states, you can find the applicable Oregon vehicle code articles
quoted on the following website and below I copied the article
that we are discussing here, with my comments following:
http://bikeportland.org/resources/bicyclelaws
=================================================================
814.430: Improper use of lanes; exceptions; penalty.

(1) A person commits the offense of improper use of lanes by a bicycle
if the person is operating a bicycle on a roadway at less than the
normal speed of traffic using the roadway at that time and place under
the existing conditions and the person does not
ride as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway.

(2) A person is not in violation of the offense under this section if
the person is not operating a bicycle as close as practicable to the
right curb or edge of the roadway under any of the following
circumstances:

(a) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle that is
proceeding in the same direction.
(b) When preparing to execute a left turn.
(c) When reasonably necessary to avoid hazardous conditions
including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving
vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards or other
conditions that make continued operation along the right curb or edge
unsafe or to avoid unsafe operation in a lane on the roadway that is too
narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side by side. Nothing
in this paragraph excuses the operator of a bicycle from the
requirements under ORS 811.425 or from the penalties for failure to
comply with those requirements.
(d) When operating within a city as near as practicable to the
left curb or edge of a roadway that is designated to allow traffic to
move in only one direction along the roadway. A bicycle that is operated
under this paragraph is subject to the same requirements and exceptions
when operating along the left curb or edge as are applicable when a
bicycle is operating along the right curb or edge of the roadway.
(e) When operating a bicycle alongside not more than one other
bicycle as long as the bicycles are both being operated within a single
lane and in a manner that does not impede the normal and reasonable
movement of traffic.
(f) When operating on a bicycle lane or bicycle path.
=======================================================================

So, please note that you are not required to stay on the "ditch" side of
the white line if it is not wise to do so, either by it being blocked,
dirty or unsafe and also if traffic cannot safely pass you anyway, then
you are actually encouraged to ride in the middle of the lane, as the
requirement to ride as close to the right side is removed under each one
of those conditions.

Please note also clause (e) allowing you to ride two abreast on bicycles
as long as both stay in the same lane and do not unnecessarily hinder
other traffic.

It appears that just about all your claims are refuted by the actual
Vehicle Code....

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of joe
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 10:21 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric + Peddle Power, Twikes etc

Just be aware that that it is illegal in Oregon (maybe other states as
well) to ride the bicycle in the vehicle lane, or to ride other than
single file.
You must stay on the ditch side of the white line, or if there is a
marked bike lane, within the bounds of that marking. Having said that, I
doubt that it is ever enforced, unfortunately in my opinion. In any
case, if you ride in the lane, you have much greater risk of losing your
life - and it's not worth it!

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric + Peddle Power, Twikes etc


> Did you report the driver / license plate?
>
> I think about every state has a "safe passing" law
> that is clearly violated if you are hit by a passing vehicle,
> you do not need to be a lawyer to see who is wrong...
>
> Only by reporting dangerous/illegal activity can you change the
> situation by giving Enforcement a chance to pick up repeated
> offenders and being aware of the accidents that happen.
>
> It may sound counter-intuitive, but in order to have less risk
> of being hit by a close-passing vehicle, you should move further
> out *into* the lane when it is narrow.
> This manouvre is called "taking the lane" or "controlling the lane"
> and if the lane/roadway is too narrow to safely share, this is the
> only defense against Yahoos who cannot wait to squeeze by, even
> when there is too little space.
> You may have to endure a few horn-happy drivers, but it is better
> than to get too many close calls.
> For the driver the only inconvenience is that they need to switch
> lane to overtake you, just as if you were a larger vehicle.
>
> There are many people who follow their intuition and play
> Gutter Bunny, only to find that when the road is too narrow, they
> will end up in a squeeze and always lose. The two most important
> factors in traffic safety is: be predictable and visible.
> If you move off the roadway (into the gutter) then you become
> "invisible" to many drivers who only scan the lane in front of them
> and if you suddenly have to move back in the lane, for example
> because of debris in your path, you are not predictable for the
> driver that did not have you on their "radar".
>
> Just for your information - I have been on a bicycle for almost
> 100,000 miles in my life and had a few close calls, it does not
> matter whether you ride in Netherlands, California, India, or
> elsewhere, there are always inconsiderate or inexperienced drivers...
>
> Safe EV'ing, no matter if it is on 1, 2, 3, 4 or more wheels.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Mark Hanson
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:00 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Electric + Peddle Power, Twikes etc
>
>
> Hi Folk's,
>
> I'd love to peddle to work in a Twike or electric peddle motorcycle.
I
> really miss bicycling to work when I lived in Colorado with shoulders
on
> the road but here in Virginia there is not (despite whining at public
> hearings and offering to work on the road crew).
>
> I need something like a Twike or electric-peddle motorcycle where I
can
> get some exercise on the way to work, 30 miles one way (can charge at
> work) but must do at least 55mph or the bubba's will flatten me. (I
> tried riding my bike once & got smacked with a pick-up side mirror).
>
> Mark in Roanoke, VA
> www.reevadiy.org
> www.evalbum.com/1273 E-porsche
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
>
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100913/e9e9cf64/a
> ttachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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_______________________________________________
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
*Hi, Joe,
Hey, Boys and Girls, Wake-up, this is a New Century, Many things have
changed since 1950 when bicycle riders were usually children and followed
the rules for Pedestrians. Since 2001, in Florida, and many other states,
Bicycle riders follow the same rules as Adults driving Motorcycles. Only if
the sidewalk is designated as a "Bicycle Path" shall bicycles be ridden on
the sidewalk. The preferred lane is to the right unless making a left turn.
We no longer ride on the left facing traffic.
Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM (Adviser) EVTI-EVA Education Chapter
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
It=92s estimated that the existing U.S. electrical grid has sufficient
capacity
to fully fuel three-quarters of the nation=92s 217 million passenger
vehicles.*
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
joe <[email protected]> wrote:

> Just be aware that that it is illegal in Oregon (maybe other states as
> well)
> to ride the bicycle in the vehicle lane, or to ride other than single fil=
e.
> You must stay on the ditch side of the white line, or if there is a marked
> bike lane, within the bounds of that marking. Having said that, I doubt
> that
> it is ever enforced, unfortunately in my opinion. In any case, if you ride
> in the lane, you have much greater risk of losing your life - and it's not
> worth it!
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
> E-mail: [email protected]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 9:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric + Peddle Power, Twikes etc
>
>
> > Did you report the driver / license plate?
> >
> > I think about every state has a "safe passing" law
> > that is clearly violated if you are hit by a passing vehicle,
> > you do not need to be a lawyer to see who is wrong...
> >
> > Only by reporting dangerous/illegal activity can you change the
> > situation by giving Enforcement a chance to pick up repeated
> > offenders and being aware of the accidents that happen.
> >
> > It may sound counter-intuitive, but in order to have less risk
> > of being hit by a close-passing vehicle, you should move further
> > out *into* the lane when it is narrow.
> > This manouvre is called "taking the lane" or "controlling the lane"
> > and if the lane/roadway is too narrow to safely share, this is the
> > only defense against Yahoos who cannot wait to squeeze by, even
> > when there is too little space.
> > You may have to endure a few horn-happy drivers, but it is better
> > than to get too many close calls.
> > For the driver the only inconvenience is that they need to switch
> > lane to overtake you, just as if you were a larger vehicle.
> >
> > There are many people who follow their intuition and play
> > Gutter Bunny, only to find that when the road is too narrow, they
> > will end up in a squeeze and always lose. The two most important
> > factors in traffic safety is: be predictable and visible.
> > If you move off the roadway (into the gutter) then you become
> > "invisible" to many drivers who only scan the lane in front of them
> > and if you suddenly have to move back in the lane, for example
> > because of debris in your path, you are not predictable for the
> > driver that did not have you on their "radar".
> >
> > Just for your information - I have been on a bicycle for almost
> > 100,000 miles in my life and had a few close calls, it does not
> > matter whether you ride in Netherlands, California, India, or
> > elsewhere, there are always inconsiderate or inexperienced drivers...
> >
> > Safe EV'ing, no matter if it is on 1, 2, 3, 4 or more wheels.
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> > Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> > Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> > Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > Behalf Of Mark Hanson
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:00 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [EVDL] Electric + Peddle Power, Twikes etc
> >
> >
> > Hi Folk's,
> >
> > I'd love to peddle to work in a Twike or electric peddle motorcycle. I
> > really miss bicycling to work when I lived in Colorado with shoulders on
> > the road but here in Virginia there is not (despite whining at public
> > hearings and offering to work on the road crew).
> >
> > I need something like a Twike or electric-peddle motorcycle where I can
> > get some exercise on the way to work, 30 miles one way (can charge at
> > work) but must do at least 55mph or the bubba's will flatten me. (I
> > tried riding my bike once & got smacked with a pick-up side mirror).
> >
> > Mark in Roanoke, VA
> > www.reevadiy.org
> > www.evalbum.com/1273 E-porsche
>
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
From: "joe" <[email protected]>

>So even if you read it that way (which I
> DON'T), they were still in violation of the law!
>
> Point is, folks, if you are on a bicycle on the roadway, electric or not,
> DON'T try to press the point or argue with a motorist - you will LOSE the
> argument and maybe your life!

WOW! I'm so glad that Europe (the bits I've been to anyway) don't do it this
way. Better stop there.

Cheers,

Bro


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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I hope you list members don't mind if I don't quote the thirty-message-threads
that have been previously posted regarding this subject.

The bicycle law aspect has barely any EV content, although the Twike does fall
into the category, as does any number of electric-assist bicycles. E-assist
bikes are quite valid transportation devices and properly used, are fun as well.

Joe is suffering from the tyranny of speed viewpoint, it appears. It's common in
a car-centric culture to believe, erroneously that one has priority because one
is faster. How many EV owners have said "I have to have 60 mph capability,
because the roads I drive on are so dangerous" when in reality, it's untrue. NEV
owners got the short end with some legislature that got written to limit them to
roads with speed limits of 35 mph or less, and can only operate at 25 mph max.
The latter is likely because they don't have the brakes or stability or any
other factors that make going faster less safe, but the road limitation is
hogwash.

We no longer own a Xebra, but it registered as a motorcycle and was not limited
to 35 mph roads. Roads with speed limits of 45 mph, 55 mph and even 65 mph were
no problem for the Xebra. The vehicle does not know what the sign reads, as the
Xebra was made in China and never learned to read English signs. The drivers on
the roads with the higher speed limits also had no problems with the Xebra and
the Xebra had no problems with them.

I pedal a velomobile for my primary transportation and having taken a LAB
Traffic Skills cycling course, I learned to ride more safely than I knew. In my
area, all the roadways are of insufficient width to share a motor vehicle and
bicycle side-by-side, so I don't let it happen. I've had to educate uninformed
uniformed law enforcement officers, and in four citations, had to have them
dismissed, as some officers are incapable of independent thought, but my riding
continues, in the safest manner possible.

To the OP who suggested that a cyclist is in great danger because automobiles of
many hundreds and in some cases, many thousands of pounds, I suggest that the
automobile driver should relinquish the use of the road to semi-trucks who
clearly outweigh the motor vehicle operator and his vehicle.


I operate my velomobile on roads with 65 mph speed limits and sometimes feel
sorry for the NEV operators who should also be allowed to drive on those roads.
If it means another road user has to slow, or perhaps not slow and only change
lanes, it's a shame. Speed kills, slowing down is a good idea. If you think you
have to go faster than anyone else, ask yourself, "What makes me more important
that that other road user?" If you have a valid answer to that question, it
probably means you also have lights and siren to justify it. Otherwise, slow
down, change lanes and be on your way.


By the way, blowing your horn does nothing. In my case, I wave (all fingers) and
laugh.

Bring on the NEVs!




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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Mark,
Suggest you reconsider a Twike if you need to get up to 55 to avoid flattening.
Back in `98 Gary Flo and I took one up to speed just to see what it would do. I
think we got it up to just about 55 before we ran out of runway (Alameda Naval
Air Station) and that was with both Gary and I pedalling our butts off and WITH
full electric assist. Plus i have frankly never felt comfortable with the
tricycle type design. Seemed stable enough but we did not attempt any high speed
turns or adverse weather operation. Regards, David Chapman.



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