[EVDL List]

Has anyone used a totally electric power steering setup in their EV?
I have seen like the ones that appear to go right inline with the
steering column. or actually replace the whole thing in the cab.
It seems like it might be a lot more efficient than an
electrohydraulic power steering pump.
Anyway I see electric power steering columns on ebay every now and
then and wondered if they might be worth a try and if anyone else has
experimented with something like that...

--
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225

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Thats a good question. I've never see full electric power steering units. What kinds of cars use them? Are they just a servo
motor with a gear box? I have heard the electro-hydraulic units (like from a Toyota MR2) are kinda noisy. Not bad if you have an
engine to drown out the pump motor. But in a quite EV you'll definitely notice.

I'm going with the Armstron Power Steering unit in my truck. Maybe if you were to go through that much trouble you could adapt a
Rack-and-Pinion unit to your truck and leave it manual.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> Behalf Of Tehben Dean
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 11:10 PM
> To: EV mail list
> Subject: [EVDL] Electric Power Steering
>
>
> Has anyone used a totally electric power steering setup in their EV?
> I have seen like the ones that appear to go right inline with the
> steering column. or actually replace the whole thing in the cab.
> It seems like it might be a lot more efficient than an
> electrohydraulic power steering pump.
> Anyway I see electric power steering columns on ebay every now and
> then and wondered if they might be worth a try and if anyone else has
> experimented with something like that...
>
> --
> Tehben
> '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> 'hElix EV'
> Website: www.helixev.com
> evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
>
> _______________________________________________
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Hello Tehben,

I look at these electric steering column and/or electric units that replace
the steering rack which can be purchase from hot rod shops. These units
require a front frame modification and relocation of my front suspension
A-arms, because the diameter of this unit is larger than the stock steering.

It would be ok, if a person builds a car from ground up and detail it to
match these chrome or polish stainless steel units. The power rack it self
cost about $2500.00 for the lower unit that replaces the a rack and pinion
type of steering. I think the column unit ran that much too.

My existing steering rack sets low and has to swing below the motor which is
inline with the transmission, so this type of unit would not work for me.

I am using canev.com power steering unit. The pump has to be mounted in a
vertical plane with the oil reservoir mounted above the pump. If you mount
this pump directly to a frame member with out any vibration dampers, then it
will be noisy. The pumps come mounted on dampers on a bracket which I then
mounted to a 1/4 thick by 6 inch wide bracket with another set of rubber
dampers, and than mounted the aluminum bracket to the frame with another set
of dampers.

If I have the hood open and only have the pump running, there is a low hum
from it. The main motor running, two water pumps, four fans, vacuum pump
motors, accessory drive motors, transmission gears, and the tires rolling
over rough surface streets, make way more noise.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tehben Dean" <[email protected]>
To: "EV mail list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 1:09 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Electric Power Steering


> Has anyone used a totally electric power steering setup in their EV?
> I have seen like the ones that appear to go right inline with the
> steering column. or actually replace the whole thing in the cab.
> It seems like it might be a lot more efficient than an
> electrohydraulic power steering pump.
> Anyway I see electric power steering columns on ebay every now and
> then and wondered if they might be worth a try and if anyone else has
> experimented with something like that...
>
> --
> Tehben
> '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> 'hElix EV'
> Website: www.helixev.com
> evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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I researched a lot of different solutions for the power steering and in the end could not come up with anything more efficient than the original steering pump. Under normal driving it puts almost no load on the motor until you go into a turn. With the reduced weight on the front of the car the steering turns effortlessly. When traveling straight down the road there is no loss to the 12v battery and no need to have two DC converters like some Ever's just to keep up with the extra loads.

Was it a lot of work re-designing the serpentine drive? You bet! But I am pleased with the results.

Mark Ward
95 Saab 900 "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com

---- Tehben Dean <[email protected]> wrote:
> Has anyone used a totally electric power steering setup in their EV?
> I have seen like the ones that appear to go right inline with the
> steering column. or actually replace the whole thing in the cab.
> It seems like it might be a lot more efficient than an
> electrohydraulic power steering pump.
> Anyway I see electric power steering columns on ebay every now and
> then and wondered if they might be worth a try and if anyone else has
> experimented with something like that...
>
> --
> Tehben
> '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> 'hElix EV'
> Website: www.helixev.com
> evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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My Yaris has a small motor right on the column, it is totally silent
and the steering feel is amazing, there is a torque sensor and it is
speed sensitive and the power used is insignificant.

M

Mike Willmon wrote:

> Thats a good question. I've never see full electric power steering
> units. What kinds of cars use them? Are they just a servo
> motor with a gear box? I have heard the electro-hydraulic units
> (like from a Toyota MR2) are kinda noisy. Not bad if you have an
> engine to drown out the pump motor. But in a quite EV you'll
> definitely notice.
>
> I'm going with the Armstron Power Steering unit in my truck. Maybe
> if you were to go through that much trouble you could adapt a
> Rack-and-Pinion unit to your truck and leave it manual.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
>> Behalf Of Tehben Dean
>> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 11:10 PM
>> To: EV mail list
>> Subject: [EVDL] Electric Power Steering
>>
>>
>> Has anyone used a totally electric power steering setup in their EV?
>> I have seen like the ones that appear to go right inline with the
>> steering column. or actually replace the whole thing in the cab.
>> It seems like it might be a lot more efficient than an
>> electrohydraulic power steering pump.
>> Anyway I see electric power steering columns on ebay every now and
>> then and wondered if they might be worth a try and if anyone else has
>> experimented with something like that...
>>
>> --
>> Tehben
>> '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
>> 'hElix EV'
>> Website: www.helixev.com
>> evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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[EVDL List]

I've considered this as well. As far as I know a
transplant hasn't been done, but should be doable with
some custom work. The only ones I've had personal
experience with are from Honda's, but they look
decently transplantable. It's basically a rack and
pinion with an electric motor attached, it senses your
steering input and helps twist one way or the other
accordingly.

The setup is the rack with the motor and the control
module and associated connectors which would be
important to get. This will draw a decent amount of
current most likely, I believe my Insight's was on a
70A fuse, although I know it varied assist with speed
to where it almost didn't assist at all on the
highway.

I've looked at the wire diagrams and it looks like the
only external signal you need is a vehicle speed input
for it to vary assist with speed (it won't work
without this signal). The only other possible issue is
the EPS system is tied in with the OBD2 system and
has a dash warning light, but it also stores its own
error codes and will tell them to an appropriate
scanner so this might be the only other issue is it
might not work with out this.

Still, if you could get it to work it is a nice setup
and very reliable and simple as far as the mechanics
of it go.

I know the Acura NSX was the first car they had this
working on, then the Honda S2000 got it and that was
modified to fit the Insight too. Any 2003-current
Civic hybrid will have a EPS system. Toyota Prii have
them as well, but I don't know how their system works.
Heck, even some GM vehicles are starting to get them
too.

Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC conversion
AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"

------------------------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 23:09:50 -0800
From: "Tehben Dean" <[email protected]>
Subject: [EVDL] Electric Power Steering
To: "EV mail list" <[email protected]>
Message-ID:

<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Has anyone used a totally electric power steering
setup in their EV?
I have seen like the ones that appear to go right
inline with the
steering column. or actually replace the whole thing
in the cab.
It seems like it might be a lot more efficient than an
electrohydraulic power steering pump.
Anyway I see electric power steering columns on ebay
every now and
then and wondered if they might be worth a try and if
anyone else has
experimented with something like that...

--
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225



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The Zapi ZTA units work very well and are easy to mount. They come in
3 different torque ratings.

http://www.electrofit-zapi.com/hfelecpowsteer.htm


Shawn Lawless


-----Original Message-----
From: Tehben Dean <[email protected]>
To: EV mail list <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 3:09 am
Subject: [EVDL] Electric Power Steering



Has anyone used a totally electric power steering setup in their EV?
I have seen like the ones that appear to go right inline with the
steering column. or actually replace the whole thing in the cab.
It seems like it might be a lot more efficient than an
electrohydraulic power steering pump.
Anyway I see electric power steering columns on ebay every now and
then and wondered if they might be worth a try and if anyone else has
experimented with something like that...

--
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225

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The Prius uses an entirely electric power steering assist,
no pump but direct electrical actuated. This leaves out the
messy problems with oil and leakage....

The simplest way of steering is (as always) to remove
the power steering completely and find a manual rack
from a comparable type car.....

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ricky Suiter
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Power Steering

I've considered this as well. As far as I know a transplant hasn't been done, but should be doable with some custom work. The only ones I've had personal experience with are from Honda's, but they look decently transplantable. It's basically a rack and pinion with an electric motor attached, it senses your steering input and helps twist one way or the other accordingly.

The setup is the rack with the motor and the control module and associated connectors which would be important to get. This will draw a decent amount of current most likely, I believe my Insight's was on a 70A fuse, although I know it varied assist with speed to where it almost didn't assist at all on the highway.

I've looked at the wire diagrams and it looks like the only external signal you need is a vehicle speed input for it to vary assist with speed (it won't work without this signal). The only other possible issue is the EPS system is tied in with the OBD2 system and has a dash warning light, but it also stores its own error codes and will tell them to an appropriate scanner so this might be the only other issue is it might not work with out this.

Still, if you could get it to work it is a nice setup and very reliable and simple as far as the mechanics of it go.

I know the Acura NSX was the first car they had this working on, then the Honda S2000 got it and that was modified to fit the Insight too. Any 2003-current Civic hybrid will have a EPS system. Toyota Prii have them as well, but I don't know how their system works.
Heck, even some GM vehicles are starting to get them too.

Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC conversion
AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"

------------------------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 23:09:50 -0800
From: "Tehben Dean" <[email protected]>
Subject: [EVDL] Electric Power Steering
To: "EV mail list" <[email protected]>
Message-ID:

<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Has anyone used a totally electric power steering setup in their EV?
I have seen like the ones that appear to go right inline with the steering column. or actually replace the whole thing in the cab.
It seems like it might be a lot more efficient than an electrohydraulic power steering pump.
Anyway I see electric power steering columns on ebay every now and then and wondered if they might be worth a try and if anyone else has experimented with something like that...

--
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225



____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/

_______________________________________________
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[EVDL List]

Saturn Vue for one.

There are two types. the kind that go in the column (Delphi,saturn etc)
and the kind that are integrated into the rack(Bosch, honda etc)
I have been wanting to try them, I was told they have an inverter from
12V to 42V that will go away when the systems are 42V and that they use
a simple torque sensor to determine the amount of assist. basically a
flexible shaft linkage and a pair of discs with contacts.

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[EVDL] Electric power steering

Has anyone successfully incorporated an OEM electric power steering (EPS)
into their conversion? My Saturn Vue has EPS and I'm having some difficulty
getting it "online".

The EPS has it's own sensors and relies on the original engine control
module for speed info and engine status (all via CAN bus). According to the
factory manual if the ECM is not communicating with the EPS the EPS should
go into a default assist mode. From the little I have driven the vehicle
I'm not getting much in the way of assist (at least not at low speeds when
it needs it).

It did blow the 10A input fuse on my DC/DC converter. The EPS can draw up
to 65A max and the converter is rated at 55A max (although I'd hope the
accessory battery would "kick in" some current). Before adding a dedicated
DC/DC just for the EPS I thought I'd query the group.

Thanks as always,
Barry Oppenheim
New Hope, PA
www.JustAnotherEVConversion.blogspot.com

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Re: [EVDL] Electric power steering

Barry Oppenheim wrote:
> Has anyone successfully incorporated an OEM electric power steering (EPS)
> into their conversion? My Saturn Vue has EPS and I'm having some difficulty
> getting it "online".
>
> The EPS has it's own sensors and relies on the original engine control
> module for speed info and engine status (all via CAN bus). According to the
> factory manual if the ECM is not communicating with the EPS the EPS should
> go into a default assist mode. From the little I have driven the vehicle
> I'm not getting much in the way of assist (at least not at low speeds when
> it needs it).
>
> It did blow the 10A input fuse on my DC/DC converter. The EPS can draw up
> to 65A max and the converter is rated at 55A max (although I'd hope the
> accessory battery would "kick in" some current). Before adding a dedicated
> DC/DC just for the EPS I thought I'd query the group.
>
> Thanks as always,
> Barry Oppenheim
> New Hope, PA
> www.JustAnotherEVConversion.blogspot.com
>
If your DC/DC is running right it will try to take all the load because
it won't sag like the battery will.

If you can get the specs on what the EPS wants from the ECM you should
be able to make something that will give the data to it. Without a
running vehicle though it'd be impossible to reverse engineer pretty much.

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Re: [EVDL] Electric power steering

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Barry Oppenheim

<[email protected]> wrote:
> Has anyone successfully incorporated an OEM electric power steering (EPS)
> into their conversion? My Saturn Vue has EPS and I'm having some diffi=
culty
> getting it "online".

I reverse engineered the protocols and designed a replacement PCM for
a 2003-2008 Mazda 3. It interfaces with the Hairball and sends and
receives the correct CAN frames to make the instrument cluster, ABS,
anti-theft, climate control/AC, radiator fan and EHPS pump work
correctly. It also has circuitry to interface the Mazda accelerator
pedal to a HEPI equipped Hairball.

The system replaces the engine harness completely, so no cutting or
splicing is required. (If only I could find a source for the engine
harness to fusebox connector I wouldn't have to buy harnesses from
salvage yards)

I suspect it will work on most recent Mazda and possibly some Ford
products as well. Version 1 is working in our first car and version 2
is maybe a month or two away. It is not an official product yet, but
if anyone is interested in beta testing you can inquire with REVOLT
Custom Electric about pricing and availability.

I have not found a source for the Mazda Power Steering pumps that will
include the control electronics. If I do find one (or if someone else
does) I can easily release a product to interface it with any vehicle.

Mark Farver
http://www.revoltcustomelectric.com

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Re: [EVDL] Electric power steering

Barry Oppenheim wrote:
>
> Has anyone successfully incorporated an OEM electric power steering (EPS)
> into their conversion? My Saturn Vue has EPS and I'm having some
> difficulty
> getting it "online".
>

I got the system on my Honda Insight working fine.
It did require a tachometer signal to start up. No CAN needed for mine, just
12V pulses. I give it a constant 1500 rpm and it works fine. It worked
without the speed sensor input, but I suspect it is better now that it has
the speed input as well.


-----
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory.
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Electric-power-steering-tp22488796p22530248.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [EVDL] Electric power steering

Interesting. I'll have to take a closer look at the schematic and physical
connections between the EPS motor and controller.

Do you have a separate DC/DC convertor for the electric power steering? How
many amps does the power steering draw?

Thanks,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric power steering


>
>

> Barry Oppenheim wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone successfully incorporated an OEM electric power steering (EPS)
>> into their conversion? My Saturn Vue has EPS and I'm having some
>> difficulty
>> getting it "online".
>>
>
> I got the system on my Honda Insight working fine.
> It did require a tachometer signal to start up. No CAN needed for mine,
> just
> 12V pulses. I give it a constant 1500 rpm and it works fine. It worked
> without the speed sensor input, but I suspect it is better now that it has
> the speed input as well.
>
>
> -----
> -Otmar-
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/
> The Zilla factory.
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Electric-power-steering-tp22488796p22530248.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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>
>

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Re: [EVDL] Electric power steering

Barry Oppenheim wrote:
>
> Interesting. I'll have to take a closer look at the schematic and
> physical
> connections between the EPS motor and controller.
>
> Do you have a separate DC/DC convertor for the electric power steering?
> How
> many amps does the power steering draw?
>
> Thanks,
> Barry
>

I think you want to look between the EPS controller and the rest of the car
for connections to fake.

I did not yet check the current draw on 12V system. I recently bought a 100
Amp DC-DC from a Ford Ranger and plan to put it in. This car has only seen
very little use, but I expect it will be running normal in about a month if
all goes well.


-----
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory.
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Electric-power-steering-tp22488796p22530634.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [EVDL] Electric power steering

"I think you want to look between the EPS controller and the rest of the car
for connections to fake. "

Pretty sure that's the CAN bus. Which means setting up a node on the bus to
fake the required signals. Time to breakout the PIC programmer

Barry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric power steering


>
>

> Barry Oppenheim wrote:
>>
>> Interesting. I'll have to take a closer look at the schematic and
>> physical
>> connections between the EPS motor and controller.
>>
>> Do you have a separate DC/DC convertor for the electric power steering?
>> How
>> many amps does the power steering draw?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Barry
>>
>
> I think you want to look between the EPS controller and the rest of the
> car
> for connections to fake.
>
> I did not yet check the current draw on 12V system. I recently bought a
> 100
> Amp DC-DC from a Ford Ranger and plan to put it in. This car has only seen
> very little use, but I expect it will be running normal in about a month
> if
> all goes well.
>
>
> -----
> -Otmar-
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/
> The Zilla factory.
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Electric-power-steering-tp22488796p22530634.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>

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